Swiss Engineering vs Made in India

[essrand]

Hello All,

Wrote a blog post about my "DIY" efforts in replicating a Nagra VFS (Vibration Free Stand), their anti-vibration platform during the pandemic time.

https://open.substack.com/pub/audio...n=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

This "halo" of Swiss engineering and German engineering is sometimes just marketing I realised, and we pay such a lot of premium for American or European or Japanese made products.

P.S : I also realised making a Nagra-level finish chassis is not that expensive, so I wonder why Indian amp manufacturers don't do so, why their products just have this DIY feel which is frankly a turn-off and keeps them out of the any reasonable audiophile's contention. We all love a bit of a halo effect of pretty products, IMO they should spend the money to make their products look pretty. Even DIY-ers who build and sell amps, find a CNC guy, it's not that expensive.

 

[sidvee]

Hello All,

Wrote a blog post about my "DIY" efforts in replicating a Nagra VFS (Vibration Free Stand), their anti-vibration platform during the pandemic time.

https://open.substack.com/pub/audio...n=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

This "halo" of Swiss engineering and German engineering is sometimes just marketing I realised, and we pay such a lot of premium for American or European or Japanese made products.

P.S : I also realised making a Nagra-level finish chassis is not that expensive, so I wonder why Indian amp manufacturers don't do so, why their products just have this DIY feel which is frankly a turn-off and keeps them out of the any reasonable audiophile's contention. We all love a bit of a halo effect of pretty products, IMO they should spend the money to make their products look pretty. Even DIY-ers who build and sell amps, find a CNC guy, it's not that expensive.

It is a know fact that by the time an audio component reaches the user's system, if bought through regular channels of distributor, dealer etc., the markup is 4-5 times of the factory cost. So not all the premium charged for name brand products reach the manufacturer - there are a lot of cuts in between. Even if you had to market and sell the stands you made, by the time it gets to the end user there will be significant markup from your cost. Hence the attraction for consumer direct products.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

It is a know fact that by the time an audio component reaches the user's system, if bought through regular channels of distributor, dealer etc., the markup is 4-5 times of the factory cost. So not all the premium charged for name brand products reach the manufacturer - there are a lot of cuts in between. Even if you had to market and sell the stands you made, by the time it gets to the end user there will be significant markup from your cost. Hence the attraction for consumer direct products.
Cheers,
Sid

thats true for Any electronic component. the margins reduce but as does the material, distribution and holding costs when volumes are higher.

In audiophile products volumes are small and additionally the Brand premium added is also high so it might be larger !

 

[essrand]

That was not the point of the article. But, if you think the Nagra VFS or the Oneiros Speakers or any of the six-figure speakers today are fairly priced, great.

 

[Analogous]

Hello All,

Wrote a blog post about my "DIY" efforts in replicating a Nagra VFS (Vibration Free Stand), their anti-vibration platform during the pandemic time.

https://open.substack.com/pub/audio...n=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

This "halo" of Swiss engineering and German engineering is sometimes just marketing I realised, and we pay such a lot of premium for American or European or Japanese made products.

P.S : I also realised making a Nagra-level finish chassis is not that expensive, so I wonder why Indian amp manufacturers don't do so, why their products just have this DIY feel which is frankly a turn-off and keeps them out of the any reasonable audiophile's contention. We all love a bit of a halo effect of pretty products, IMO they should spend the money to make their products look pretty. Even DIY-ers who build and sell amps, find a CNC guy, it's not that expensive.

Rethm does a pretty good job I feel
The designs are innovative and unique.

 

[sidvee]

That was not the point of the article. But, if you think the Nagra VFS or the Oneiros Speakers or any of the six-figure speakers today are fairly priced, great.

Personally I cannot afford any of them, so I don't devote much though to it. But evidently quite a few people are buying them, for these companies 1) To exist 2) To demonstrate said products in shows 3) For folks in high end forums to discuss them and acquire them. Anyways my point of referring to the cost of the VFS was to draw attention to the fact that the retail price of any High end audio equipment/Accessory is usually several times marked up from the actual cost of production - whether that is a fair price or not - it is up-to the buyer to decide. And if he decides to buy the components and assemble them himself - that is fine too.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[essrand]

Rethm does a pretty good job I feel
The designs are innovative and unique.

Yes, that's true, it's also cause their main client base is the US, I believe.

 

[availlyrics]

Wrote a blog post about my "DIY" efforts in replicating a Nagra VFS (Vibration Free Stand), their anti-vibration platform during the pandemic time.

Good read
One more DIY idea-

$485 Silver Rock Volume knob for the Hi-Fi snob (not available anymore)

 

[alpha1]

We blind-tested the two plates, and both were equally effective under my Nagra 300p amplifier.

Did you also blind test the scenario without the plates?

 

[essrand]

Did you also blind test the scenario without the plates?

The plates definitely made a difference, I did test with and without plates, but it wasn't a blind test.

 

[surfatwork]

P.S : I also realised making a Nagra-level finish chassis is not that expensive, so I wonder why Indian amp manufacturers don't do so, why their products just have this DIY feel which is frankly a turn-off and keeps them out of the any reasonable audiophile's contention. We all love a bit of a halo effect of pretty products, IMO they should spend the money to make their products look pretty. Even DIY-ers who build and sell amps, find a CNC guy, it's not that expensive.

Some decades back, most Indians couldn't afford most things. So there was a strong reason for Indian manufacturers to keep costs, and hence prices low. The largely closed economy also ensured that innovation stagnated - there was no incentive to improve when there wasn't any competition. The Ambassador and Premier Padmini are prime examples.
Liberalization brought in foreign goods - better, sleeker, fairly affordable with a bit of a stretch - the stretch often came because of the foreign label. Think Sony trinitron. And now, Indian manufacturers didn't sell enough to be able to afford to innovate. So they stayed where they were and usually, died out.
Coming to audio components, It's not cheap to make a good cabinet, atleast in low volumes, while ensuring your core product engineering remains top class. That pushes up the price, bringing foreign products into competition. And given a apples to apples choice between Desi and phoren, we all know what most Indians would go for. Hence where we are.
Chinese products have stormed the market because their production facilities (sometimes subsidised, sometimes copied) let them offer amazing products at cheap prices.

 

[captainsubtext]

The plates definitely made a difference, I did test with and without plates, but it wasn't a blind test.

Can second this as the current owner of these plates. The effects would perhaps been more pronounced in Bhaskar's system at the time.
His setup had the speakers well into the room with the amp on a unit at the back right in the middle.

the differences are not earth shattering in my current setup (the 300p and the nagra jazz are well off to the side away from the speakers) but can be characterised as something feeling "off" once you don't have these in place - mileage varies depending on how you've set up your speakers relative to the amp.