System setup and evolution

[arj]

Added a new "member" a London decca Mk V EE cart whch i picked up on ebay Japan and just set it up

it is like a Diva.. plays the most beautiful sound on clean , well recorded LPs...mesmerizing
But put a dirty LP and it spits and snarls :sad: ..not sure how to manage this temperamental star cant have 2 tonearms.
Whatever it is..definitely a Keeper.

some history

It should be observed that these version of the London carts have been hyped up much in the last few years and they do indeed have redeeming qualities, but you should be aware of a few facts before parting out with your hard earned cash, firstly the pole pieces contain iron, these are after all Moving Iron and not MC designs, so they rust and break off so the lifetime of those carts is not all that great this is in paticular a problem with early variants, secondly the cantilever less design of the carts mean that they collect an unusually high amount of dirt inside and need to be cleaned frequently, however the top of the cart can be slid off for adjustment of the channel separation (all the way to mono BTW) and can help in cleaning the cart incidentally, thirdly they are sensitive to grounding, much more so than most carts and finally these MkI to MkIV version while similar in design to the current versions they are much bigger and heavier and can be a pig to set up and will only mate rally well with a heavy or damped arms. The MkV was released in the mid/late 70's and is the basis for the cartridges that are being made today, while it retains the peculiarities of earlier designs such as the wildly differing vertical and horizontal modulations the new design was much lighter and smaller than earlier models and thus it was easier to match them to modern arms.

Now to go for a PTP5

 

[Dr.Bass]

Added a new "member" a London decca Mk V EE cart whch i picked up on ebay Japan and just set it up

it is like a Diva.. plays the most beautiful sound on clean , well recorded LPs...mesmerizing
But put a dirty LP and it spits and snarls :sad: ..not sure how to manage this temperamental star cant have 2 tonearms.
Whatever it is..definitely a Keeper.

some history


Now to go for a PTP5

Arj, you are possibly the second person on this forum to be using a Decca cartridge and I can see the same enthusiasm in you as I did in Joshua when he got his Decca Super Gold. If your experience turns out to be overall positive then I will take the plunge too

 

[jls001]

it is like a Diva.. plays the most beautiful sound on clean , well recorded LPs...mesmerizing
But put a dirty LP and it spits and snarls :sad: ..not sure how to manage this temperamental star cant have 2 tonearms.
Whatever it is..definitely a Keeper.

In your case, I think you can come to a happy compromise - your Schick stick has removable headshell. So invest in a second headshell and swap out to the Decca for those special records. Pedestrian records play with your regular cart. Of course you will have to fiddle with the phonostage setting each time since the Decca is MI, and you're probably running an MC now.

@Dr Bass: simple solution for you -- build a Lenco for the Decca :lol: BTW, I have been (inadvertantly) comparing sonic signatures and the Decca London Super Gold and the ZYX RS 30-02 have lots of resemblance in their immediacy.

 

[arj]

In your case, I think you can come to a happy compromise - your Schick stick has removable headshell. So invest in a second headshell and swap out to the Decca for those special records. Pedestrian records play with your regular cart. Of course you will have to fiddle with the phonostage setting each time since the Decca is MI, and you're probably running an MC now.
.

i have a second headshell ..a Sumiko one which i have put the decca in.

My DL103R is connected via an SUT (hence 3.5 mv vs 5mv) so i have kept the same gain settings on the phono. I do need to change the capacitance as the DL103 is smoother with a 147pf while the denon is happier with a lower one..gets sluggish with high capacitance.

also the tracking weight needs to be changed every time. the stylus of the decca has such a low clearance from the body/record that it is not easy to get right

 

[Dr.Bass]

@Dr Bass: simple solution for you -- build a Lenco for the Decca :lol: BTW, I have been (inadvertantly) comparing sonic signatures and the Decca London Super Gold and the ZYX RS 30-02 have lots of resemblance in their immediacy.

I guess the super gold might have the edge in vocals ? ZYX may be better in getting the ambient cues ?

BTW, do you still maintain that Decca works only on very good quality records ? I mean how many % of records in your collection are rejected by the Decca ?

 

[jls001]

I guess the super gold might have the edge in vocals ? ZYX may be better in getting the ambient cues ?

BTW, do you still maintain that Decca works only on very good quality records ? I mean how many % of records in your collection are rejected by the Decca ?

It is difficult to say which is the outright winner (or loser) here, mainly because I have not been able to compare them in the "same" or what I deem as "similar" setup. I have swapped out cartridges on the same arm, but the phonostage changes - and produces the difference.

Right from the first DIY phonostage build (the original Hypnotoad MC - brilliant one), the DIY effort had beaten the factory built phonostage for MC use. With the Hypnotoad Ver 2 (a.k.a. AD 797 DIY phonostage), the gap grew even wider. Both Hypnotoad designs are MC only. BUT for MM operation, the factory team still trounces the DIY team (I had built the CNC MM-only phonostage).

I am currently building a Pass Labs Pearl 2 which can be interchangeably used for MM or MC. My biggest motivation for building this model is the hope that it beats my current (factory) phonostage by a wide margin for MM use, so that I will have the comfort of knowing that the Decca London SG is getting a deserving pairing. If, in the bargain, it also beats the Hypnotoad AD 797, then it will be a welcome bonus. If it doesn't, it will be re-affirmation of the high praises the Hypnotoad AD797 has already garnered.

If am to stick out my neck, I would say that the London SG (with my rather pedestrian MM phonostage) and the ZYX RS 30-02 (with the high performing Hypnotoad AD 797 phonostage) are in similar performance ballpark. Incidentally, their sound signatures happen to be quite similar. If audio memory serves right, the Kontrapunkt c (with Soundsmith ruby cantilever and mid level diamond retip) was clearly a level above either of these because of its absolutely beautiful midrange. And the Denon DL 103 is clearly a level (or two) below the duo mainly because of its slight reticence in the upper registers.

I hope, for my sake , that paired to the Pearl 2, the London SG pole vaults the above line up.

Yes, the Decca needs good records. And, if possible, a damped arm. One irritant is the loud pop when one drops this cartridge on a record, and the equally loud pop when lifting the arm (through arm lift). This pop is there on SME 3009/II or Origin Live Silver or Encounter arms, all undamped arms. Surface noise also gets accentuated compared to cantilevered cartridges. But when playing a fine record, it has details in spades, fast attack and nice sustains, great dynamic swing, etc. Everything seems to play that bit faster and more coherently. My two cents.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Last week I was in B'lore and got the oportunity to listen to Arj's music system. Thanks Santhosh for driving me to Arj's home.

To put it simply Arj's system makes music.:clapping: This is one system which not only sounds superb but the components also look great. No WAF problems here.

Music on this system sounds real, with body, unlike the bleached out thin sound of most modern hifi systems .

Arj, I had not heard a Decca cartridge before, and after listening to your Decca it is on my list of things to get. Hopefully I can find one at a reasonable price.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[noknor]

Beautiful speakers, congratulations

 

[arj]

Rajiv and Santosh, I really need to thank both of you for coming..I was without music due to work and your visit motivated me to set it up again..especially the TT. Am enjoying it again !!

The Decca is a real gem and I really do not listen to any other cart including the dl103 now !! As long as you have a lossy heavy arm and clean records it's heaven.

 

[arj]

Some updates after a very long time and lots of changes in 3 years
I re-plinthed this again and moved to a PTP5. got a larger Birch ply plinth for the PTP5 and put that in. Since this is a larger plinth I can install a 12" tonearm on the plinth itself and hence the tonearm fits in perfectly..It took me a very long time to get the measurement exact and drill the hole. Also put a coat of varnish earlier problems of the tonearm being in a different pod is gone and there is a big change in the background noise.

i feel most of the change is due to the Tonearm being in the same plinth and hence sharing the same vibration characteristic. and the reason i hear more details ins because of a lower background noise

From the people i spoke to PTP5 only give a cleaner look an effect on sound is not much. but overall the TT is sounding much better !



Second change is the Phono..got the Leben Phono. it sounds very good but the only "problem" is it is MM only. the Decca despite its 5mV output sounds softer and needs to be pumped to more than 12:00 clock position ( the digital playes louder at 10:00 to give a comparison)
Surprisingly then Denon DL103R plays decently at 10:00 when used with the SUT..and that leads to the 3rd change
Got a Dave Slagle Transfomer pair and made myself an SUT 2 days back. On first listen its very good..and its custom wound for a 100 Ohm loading . Have made a nested shield using Mu Metal and Copper inside it.. am just running it in right now.



Am catching up a lot as I had been travelling on work a lot this year but over the last one month have been able to setup the system . still some work left eg speaker need to be fine-tuned/put on spikes etc.

 

[sann]

The birch ply looks very good, in my rack I have just used melamine polish and it gives a good shining transparent finish. I am also planning to make a Lenco plinth with all birch ply layers.

What does Dave Slagle Transfomer brings in compared to Cinemag?

-sann'

 

[arj]

What does Dave Slagle Transfomer brings in compared to Cinemag?

-sann'

He is supposed to be a transformer Guru with a great understanding of Magnetism and now transformers impact audio..among many other things
you can read up on him here

and on his transformers here

I got to know of him from Prem who knows him and is usually in touch with him.

 

[anilva]

Arj,

New setup looks good. Time for a listen. Where did you source the Mu Metal sheet/foil from?

Cheers

 

[arj]

Arj,

New setup looks good. Time for a listen. Where did you source the Mu Metal sheet/foil from?

Cheers

Anil, welcome to drop in anytime it is sounding so much better than before now .
I got it during one of my US trips. Copper foil is available on Amazon

Mu metal - http://www.ebay.com/itm/MuMetal-Ult...hash=item2366987541:m:mcKIFWQJVx3F91pr4jiH-qQ

Copper foil - https://www.amazon.in/dp/B01FY2183Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_Yn9Sxb8GYK1AV


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[Rajiv]

Hi Arj,

The Lenco looks lovely in its new avatar.

Yours is one of the most musically satisfying systems I have heard and would love to listen to it again.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[arj]

you are welcome anytime you are here Rajiv.. and thanks for your words, i do believe I have a long way to go !

 

[kuruvilajacob]

Hi Arj,

The Lenco looks lovely in its new avatar.

Yours is one of the most musically satisfying systems I have heard and would love to listen to it again.

Regards
Rajiv

I endorse Rajiv's observation of Arjun's system. I also felt it to be the the most satisfying system I have heard despite the unfriendly room condition when I had the opportunity to audition it.

 

[sunder]

The birch ply looks very good, in my rack I have just used melamine polish and it gives a good shining transparent finish. I am also planning to make a Lenco plinth with all birch ply layers.

What does Dave Slagle Transfomer brings in compared to Cinemag?

-sann'

Any coating, polishing with varnish or paint on birch wood will spoil the purpose. The coating will affect by harden the wooden layers to some extent.

 

[sunder]

Arj, you are moving to the next level as sure footed and you have always been taking more time to sharpen your tool to cut the wood as fine piece in one stroke. I like your 'hifi' journey. Congratulations! I wish you this enthusiasm ever grow in you.

Cheers,
Sunder.

 

[arj]

Made a couple of changes and tweaks over the last 6 months but the biggest impact has been a stacked platter ie added a 2nd platter with a spindle extension. Maybe its the extra weight or the additional momentum provided by it, the sound is definitely more cleaner as maybe due to reduction of background noise. Speed stability is also much better


And yes added a 2nd tonearm the Infamous and shrewish RS A1. All the reports have been true to word that this is a BI*CH to operate although a breeze to setup since it needs no armboards, just plonk it anywhere such that the cartridge stylus is 1cm from the spindle..
But being all wobbly /lossy and unipivot at both the arm as well as head-shell ( double unipivot) with extremely thin cables setting up the cartridge was a real pain.
And everytime you lower it to the record you do so with your heart in your mouth... but once you do so the sound is simply glorious in terms of attack/flow and musicality. resolution ( with my decca cartridge is ) is more than adequate ( the thomas schick is far better) but its rhythm and midrange is really great. there is still a lot to adjust in its placement /height as well as the head-shell mobility.