The bare minimum?

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

Hello People!

After going through several buy recommendation threads I discovered there were no posts with a specified budget of less than Rs. 50K.

So my question is how much is the bare minimum that I require to get a pair of passive speakers and an amp, with, possibly, a sub?
And which products do you recommend?

My purpose is to listen to Music, not restricted to any specfic genre, but if that makes a huge difference then say stuff like House and Techno. I'd like to play the music from either my laptop or Android phone, in the living room of my 2BHK Flat, and I'm not worried about it reaching the bedrooms, so I guess near-field should do?

The reason I'm not specifying my budget, is because I'm willing to spend whatever is the bare minimum that I need to get what would be considered, in your eyes, an acceptable setup.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ashenden]

Hello, Welcome to the forum!

I was earlier using my audio rig in living room, with speakers spaced 8 -9 ft apart. I was never able to tame the room acoustics. Then I sold some of it and shifted to a simpler bedroom setup with near-field listening (speakers 4 ft apart), the difference was immediately noticeable. The depth and the height of soundstage, dynamics and tonality improved. Now I can listen at very low volumes, so the direct sound from the speakers are much higher than the reflected ones. Also at low volumes, the amplifier (Class A/B) runs in Class A mode (I guess) which has better fidelity & dynamics.

Pricing with audio equipment is mostly inflated due to the high dealer margins, customs duty in India etc. There are many DIY success stories you will find here which were built at a fraction of the cost of branded gear.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
So my question is how much is the bare minimum that I require to get a pair of passive speakers and an amp, with, possibly, a sub?
And which products do you recommend?
<snip>

2-way ported bookshelf or standmount speakers (preferably on dedicated stands).
- Dali, Q-Acoustics, KEF, ELAC, Wharfedale, Klipsch, etc are the usual suspects
- HiFiMart is having a sale on bookshelf speakers (https://www.hifimart.com/bonanza/)
Integrated amp with DAC capable of at least 50Wpc clean power delivery.
- Marantz, Yamaha, NAD, Cambridge Audio, etc are the usual suspects; good feature to price to performance ratio

You need to hear out the speakers (if possible in your listening space).
Budget of 50-70K if buying locally for new items.
If you have the opportunity of sourcing from US/UK, options are more and the prices are cheaper.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[bobbyprajan]

The bare minimum you are talking about differs for every individual. Some can be content with a below 10K active speakers like Swans M10 or Edifier R1700BT. Some may prefer a passive bookshelf like BA A25 / A26 or Mission MX / LX with a Norge 1000 amplifier which will be around 25K.

Above that you can have Dali Zensor / Q Acoustics bookshelf speakers paired with entry level Marantz or Cambridge Audio amplifiers which will be in the 40K region.

There can be a lot of combinations like the above, but what matters is which one sounds right for your ears.

 

[rksingh1]

bare minimum that I require to get a pair of passive speakers and an amp, with, possibly, a sub?

Are you planning to expand it to 5 or 7 channel speaker set? If yes, then the Amp makes sense. If not - why are you even looking for an Amp?

The active speakers set these day are very capable of basic audio processing and provide feature like BT, Wifi, NFC, Chromecast, 4k etc. An entry level AMP will probably do a slightly better job on audio processing but it has a challenge to match it with capable speaker. With the powered speakers, it had that tuned already.

Get couple of powered bookshelf - add a sub and you have your setup ready.

The definition of "bare minimum" is very relative. When I was a college student - for me a bare minimum mean speakers that can produce loud audio and should be big in size (within 5-7k). When I started working - I wanted a HT within 15-20k. When I grew older, the bare minimum changed to 1L and in couple of years, for me, bare minimum could be anything between 1.5L.

The concept of audio world is great - the more money you have at disposal, the higher you can go in quality ladder. What is acceptable to you totally depends on money you are willing to spend. Example, you got a subwoofers worth 15-20k which will produce low beats and then at 3L too which will do it better. For me, right now, the bare minimum stands somewhere at 40k, at which I think I can get an acceptable level of woofer sound.

 

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

Hello, Welcome to the forum!

I was earlier using my audio rig in living room, with speakers spaced 8 -9 ft apart. I was never able to tame the room acoustics. Then I sold some of it and shifted to a simpler bedroom setup with near-field listening (speakers 4 ft apart), the difference was immediately noticeable. The depth and the height of soundstage, dynamics and tonality improved. Now I can listen at very low volumes, so the direct sound from the speakers are much higher than the reflected ones. Also at low volumes, the amplifier (Class A/B) runs in Class A mode (I guess) which has better fidelity & dynamics.

Pricing with audio equipment is mostly inflated due to the high dealer margins, customs duty in India etc. There are many DIY success stories you will find here which were built at a fraction of the cost of branded gear.

Hi, thanks for the welcome.
It is a shame that we rely so much on imported products over here. I'd love to go the DIY route but it sounds like a lot more work.
What would you build yourself though? Just the speakers, or the amp and subwoofer as well?

 

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

2-way ported bookshelf or standmount speakers (preferably on dedicated stands).
- Dali, Q-Acoustics, KEF, ELAC, Wharfedale, Klipsch, etc are the usual suspects
- HiFiMart is having a sale on bookshelf speakers (https://www.hifimart.com/bonanza/)
Integrated amp with DAC capable of at least 50Wpc clean power delivery.
- Marantz, Yamaha, NAD, Cambridge Audio, etc are the usual suspects; good feature to price to performance ratio

You need to hear out the speakers (if possible in your listening space).
Budget of 50-70K if buying locally for new items.
If you have the opportunity of sourcing from US/UK, options are more and the prices are cheaper.

Cheers,
Raghu

Hi Raghu!
Thanks for the descriptive answer, it's really useful but I'm not sure if I want to spend 50-70K at the moment. I now realize given current prices and import policies that 50K plus is indeed the minimum for some decent sound. I might have to settle for a cheaper and more mass market solutiont for now. I will definitely save this information and that website is great. Thanks for shaing.

 

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

The bare minimum you are talking about differs for every individual. Some can be content with a below 10K active speakers like Swans M10 or Edifier R1700BT. Some may prefer a passive bookshelf like BA A25 / A26 or Mission MX / LX with a Norge 1000 amplifier which will be around 25K.

Above that you can have Dali Zensor / Q Acoustics bookshelf speakers paired with entry level Marantz or Cambridge Audio amplifiers which will be in the 40K region.

There can be a lot of combinations like the above, but what matters is which one sounds right for your ears.

Hey, thanks, and yes, ideally I'd like to go with something in the middle for around 25K as you mentioned. I was tempted to go for the Swans or Edifier given their "all in one" solution and a very affordable price, but I do like the idea of being able to upgrade without having to replace the entire setup. Do you recommend a decent Sub that will work well with the Norge? Or do you feel that I can omit the Sub altogether? Personally I'm not even sure if I need a heavy deep bass sound in a small flat.

 

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

Are you planning to expand it to 5 or 7 channel speaker set? If yes, then the Amp makes sense. If not - why are you even looking for an Amp?

The active speakers set these day are very capable of basic audio processing and provide feature like BT, Wifi, NFC, Chromecast, 4k etc. An entry level AMP will probably do a slightly better job on audio processing but it has a challenge to match it with capable speaker. With the powered speakers, it had that tuned already.

Get couple of powered bookshelf - add a sub and you have your setup ready.

The definition of "bare minimum" is very relative. When I was a college student - for me a bare minimum mean speakers that can produce loud audio and should be big in size (within 5-7k). When I started working - I wanted a HT within 15-20k. When I grew older, the bare minimum changed to 1L and in couple of years, for me, bare minimum could be anything between 1.5L.

The concept of audio world is great - the more money you have at disposal, the higher you can go in quality ladder. What is acceptable to you totally depends on money you are willing to spend. Example, you got a subwoofers worth 15-20k which will produce low beats and then at 3L too which will do it better. For me, right now, the bare minimum stands somewhere at 40k, at which I think I can get an acceptable level of woofer sound.

Hey, thanks. Bare minimum in this context really meant what would this community recommend as an entry level setup for a hifi system. I'm not that picky when it comes to listening to music at home, i.e flat frequency vs enhanced, but I do like the idea of using something that's made to produce good quality sound.

As of now, I have no consideration of expanding it to a 5 or 7 channel set, so I really like your suggestion of forgoeing the amp altogether. I presumed the Amps important would come in when I needed to replace the speakers or sub, but I guess that's something I should consider when I actually do have a longer term upgrade / expansion plan.

How do you add a sub to the powered speakers, and, in that case, would I need a powered sub?

Thanks again!

 

[Ashenden]

Hi, thanks for the welcome.
It is a shame that we rely so much on imported products over here. I'd love to go the DIY route but it sounds like a lot more work.
What would you build yourself though? Just the speakers, or the amp and subwoofer as well?

When I was out of college, I was more adventurous. Made an integrated amp and Bookshelf speakers. It sounded awful, but I enjoyed it
Nowadays I buy everything, mostly at inflated prices, for the convenience

 

[TimeToGetSomeGoodSound]

When I was out of college, I was more adventurous. Made an integrated amp and Bookshelf speakers. It sounded awful, but I enjoyed it
Nowadays I buy everything, mostly at inflated prices, for the convenience

Haha yes, I think I'll cave in to the inflationary trends of mass consumption as well.
Probably not well received here but what do you think of Obage products? Worth their salt?
I like how they market it as a quality sound system that's meant to be played at lower volumes.
Listening to something for long hours at low volumes is pretty much what I'm looking for.
Also, always looking to support local brands that are trying to be innovative with some integrity.

 

[Ashenden]

Haha yes, I think I'll cave in to the inflationary trends of mass consumption as well.
Probably not well received here but what do you think of Obage products? Worth their salt?
I like how they market it as a quality sound system that's meant to be played at lower volumes.
Listening to something for long hours at low volumes is pretty much what I'm looking for.
Also, always looking to support local brands that are trying to be innovative with some integrity.

I’ve not heard about this brand. Edifier bluetooth speakers and Swan are also well regarded for near field listening. There must be several FMs owning them. A quick search with the model number should give more insight.

 

[raghupb]

@TimeToGetSomeGoodSound
It would be just easier if you state what you intend to spend.
FMs can suggest solutions for your use case and budget.
Look at the used/pre-owned market too. Sometimes there are great VFM products here.

Low volume only probably means distortion at higher volumes.
HiFi is not about loudness. It is about providing hours of ear-fatigue free enjoyment.
This can be a low volume or moderate/peppy levels or in between.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[bobbyprajan]

Hey, thanks, and yes, ideally I'd like to go with something in the middle for around 25K as you mentioned. I was tempted to go for the Swans or Edifier given their "all in one" solution and a very affordable price, but I do like the idea of being able to upgrade without having to replace the entire setup. Do you recommend a decent Sub that will work well with the Norge? Or do you feel that I can omit the Sub altogether? Personally I'm not even sure if I need a heavy deep bass sound in a small flat.

Passive bookshelf speakers gives you flexibility to upgrade your system later. You can get a subwoofer later if you think the bass is not enough. The Norge is a stereo amplifier, you cannot connect a subwoofer to it. I dont know if they have 2.1 version. Spend approximately 60% of your budget on speakers and rest on the amplifier.

 

[rksingh1]

How do you add a sub to the powered speakers, and, in that case, would I need a powered sub

The sub in almost all the cases is powered. It's difficult for an amp to power so much of low frequency to a sub. There are models of active speakers that'll have a sub out.

But then - near field usage may or may not need a sub. Are you going to listen to just music? If so - these monitor speakers are highly rated : https://www.amazon.in/PreSonus-Acti...tive+speakers&qid=1562040006&s=gateway&sr=8-5

That doesn't have a sub out and it seems, it mayn't need one too.

This one from Edifier is great : https://www.amazon.in/Edifier-R1850...RCHRK3YPJHP&psc=1&refRID=H4961CZDNRCHRK3YPJHP

It has a sub line out and gives you flexibility to add a sub. There is one more model with Edifier that comes with 2.1 setup. In fact, if you look for 2.1 setup, there are plenty in market which will work for your needs.

Again - the only point to think and remember here is the purpose of it. I got myself Yamaha V585 AMP because I know I'll upgrade to a 5.1 or 7.1 system in future. Plus I listened to Polk Audio S55s and I was totally blown away with their quality. With speakers, the law of diminishing returns applies at a faster rate than normal. So you'd have to be vary of these.

I'd say, go to a reliance digital or croma store and listen to some of the best 2.1 or 2.0 systems they might have on display there. Then go to a HT store and listen to Polk S20s (these will cost you 20k approx and they need an amp to power). Try to understand the different of integrated 2.1 setup in Croma and amp_polk S20 setup (which will be 2-3 times the cost of integrated setup). Polks will definitely sound better - the question you'd need to answer here is - do they sound better enough to justify 3 times the cost?

Read my journey here : https://www.hifivision.com/threads/my-journey-to-audio-nirvana.75351/