The Bargain Hunter's subwoofer ...

[Decadent_Spectre]

Faital is one of my favourite professional companies. Their drivers are usually not the highest output among pro companies (that often goes to B&C) but they are the best sounding IMO. Other pro companies I am fond of are Precision Devices and Celestion in terms of sound rather than output. I may have missed this but if you are planning on a sealed enclosure it will probably yield a very "dry" sound. At the expense of "speed" a 35Hz tune will offer more "meat" to the bass, as you prefer. Pro drivers are rarely used at home in India so I am happy to see this. One last note, if you like more "speed" then you might consider something with a lower Qes/Qts and lower mass, but as with everything it is a balancing act. All the best.

 

[mpw]

Faital is one of my favourite professional companies. Their drivers are usually not the highest output among pro companies (that often goes to B&C) but they are the best sounding IMO. Other pro companies I am fond of are Precision Devices and Celestion in terms of sound rather than output. I may have missed this but if you are planning on a sealed enclosure it will probably yield a very "dry" sound. At the expense of "speed" a 35Hz tune will offer more "meat" to the bass, as you prefer. Pro drivers are rarely used at home in India so I am happy to see this. One last note, if you like mo re "speed" then you might consider something with a lower Qes/Qts and lower mass, but as with everything it is a balancing act. All the best.

Thank you

I did not know about this driver till Humblehomemadehifi told me about it and asked me to work on a 150 lit sealed enclosure..

The driver was available in India so i plunged into this.

I really do not know how this will pair with my Hypex DS4.0 and my room as well.

I am told that this config will reinforce the lower bass ( and not go into very very low bass levels )

Thing is i will run my standmounts full range - their -3dB point is at 55 Hz so i hope to set the crossover to about 65 Hz on this sub and see where it goes..

I have no measuring instruments so it will be by the ear..

Like flying a monoplane and looking out the window / horizon for navigation

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I wouldn't worry too much, I've been into the "science" for a long time and all I have truly learned is "the heart wants what it wants". Tune by ear as that is the end goal, I have measurement gear but I haven't used them in years, some mics lie sealed in their packaging. I would recommend that 65Hz might not be ideal depending on what you want so try playing with the XO, by ear of course. Also do remember to increase/decrease the sub level relative to the speakers if you have that choice so as to better cater to personal taste. Please do post pictures and impressions. I will add that if you are not used to a pro type driver at home then the sensitivity, even in a sealed enclosure, above 70-80Hz will surprise you and may become "overbearing" if you are used to sound levels of 80-90db. My normal listening level is about 105db at the listening position so pro drivers work great in my case.

 

[mpw]

There has been no progress thus far..

Simply not getting the wind onto the sails...

work and travel are pushing this behind..

besides my carpenter has got hold of a project which is more remunerative for him so i need to wait..

Waiting makes it sweeter they say... and i console myself..

regards

 

[arunkvivek]

There has been no progress thus far..

Simply not getting the wind onto the sails...

work and travel are pushing this behind..

besides my carpenter has got hold of a project which is more remunerative for him so i need to wait..

Waiting makes it sweeter they say... and i console myself..

regards

Sailing on the same boat. Ordered Dayton Pa460-8 for a VBSS build. The box is too big to fit in my parents luggage (they are returning from US). Forced to return and compromise on 12 inch SW (Ultimax) as they suit luggage better. have missed some lucrative deals and am waiting Thanks giving deals.

 

[generalxxxstark]

I have mounted 4 subs (passive) to ceiling and it sounds really good.. Hence the suggestion to you, to try if you like this idea..

I have done something similar as well.. But Instead I have my 2 subs sitting on a concrete-wooden slab which is right against the ceiling. It could be just my room but the bass dispersion is even throughout the room.

 

[mpw]

Sailing on the same boat. Ordered Dayton Pa460-8 for a VBSS build. The box is too big to fit in my parents luggage (they are returning from US). Forced to return and compromise on 12 inch SW (Ultimax) as they suit luggage better. have missed some lucrative deals and am waiting Thanks giving deals.

why dont you consider same model as mine - Faitalpro 18XL1600 - avbl in Delhi and save your parents the trouble of getting this from USA ?

is there a technical difference ?

faitalpro is a pro audio driver too..

Regards

 

[kapvin]

why dont you consider same model as mine - Faitalpro 18XL1600 - avbl in Delhi and save your parents the trouble of getting this from USA ?

is there a technical difference ?

faitalpro is a pro audio driver too..

Regards

while more expensive, the Faital is a far better driver than the Dayton.


@Decadent_Spectre made a point about "dryness" which we also spoke about on the phone. the morel woofer in your mains isn't exactly dry.

 

[mpw]

I wouldn't worry too much, I've been into the "science" for a long time and all I have truly learned is "the heart wants what it wants". Tune by ear as that is the end goal, I have measurement gear but I haven't used them in years, some mics lie sealed in their packaging. I would recommend that 65Hz might not be ideal depending on what you want so try playing with the XO, by ear of course. Also do remember to increase/decrease the sub level relative to the speakers if you have that choice so as to better cater to personal taste. Please do post pictures and impressions. I will add that if you are not used to a pro type driver at home then the sensitivity, even in a sealed enclosure, above 70-80Hz will surprise you and may become "overbearing" if you are used to sound levels of 80-90db. My normal listening level is about 105db at the listening position so pro drivers work great in my case.

The other day i measured with an android app - I was OK with about 87 dB - 90 dB at my listening position..

Isnt 105 dB too loud ?

Faital is one of my favourite professional companies. Their drivers are usually not the highest output among pro companies (that often goes to B&C) but they are the best sounding IMO. Other pro companies I am fond of are Precision Devices and Celestion in terms of sound rather than output. I may have missed this but if you are planning on a sealed enclosure it will probably yield a very "dry" sound. At the expense of "speed" a 35Hz tune will offer more "meat" to the bass, as you prefer. Pro drivers are rarely used at home in India so I am happy to see this. One last note, if you like more "speed" then you might consider something with a lower Qes/Qts and lower mass, but as with everything it is a balancing act. All the best.

as @kapvin points out- my mains speakers arent exactly "dry" sounding so i guess it will be a hit or a miss thing here..

I am doing a sealed enclosure here.

have to wait and watch if the dry and wet meet or they disagree

while more expensive, the Faital is a far better driver than the Dayton.


@Decadent_Spectre made a point about "dryness" which we also spoke about on the phone. the morel woofer in your mains isn't exactly dry.

what to do bro ?

am going on a hunch and i dont know where i will end up but am OK with this gamble.

regards

 

[arunkvivek]

why dont you consider same model as mine - Faitalpro 18XL1600 - avbl in Delhi and save your parents the trouble of getting this from USA ?

is there a technical difference ?

faitalpro is a pro audio driver too..

Regards

Only monetary diff.. the daytons are $99 dollar pro drivers selling at $89 and just about VFM solution.

Parents would shop for chocolates and $1 goodies for khandaan and fill up 23 kg per box. I am trying to get some VFM drivers instead. Luggage wise they would carry 23kg per box for sure. Trying to make the best of opportunity now.

 

[elangoas]

I have done something similar as well.. But Instead I have my 2 subs sitting on a concrete-wooden slab which is right against the ceiling. It could be just my room but the bass dispersion is even throughout the room.

Sorry for being offtopic @mpw..

@generalxxxstark , Have you placed them on loft ?.. Plz do share pics in an other thread (or) in the ceiling subs thread..

 

[mpw]

Only monetary diff.. the daytons are $99 dollar pro drivers selling at $89 and just about VFM solution.

Parents would shop for chocolates and $1 goodies for khandaan and fill up 23 kg per box. I am trying to get some VFM drivers instead. Luggage wise they would carry 23kg per box for sure. Trying to make the best of opportunity now.

i understand..

good thing about audio is that cost is not a necessary indication of performance. - many times "cheaper" stuff sounds better. It all depends on the implementation and the room characteristic i suppose.

Good luck with your build !

regards

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

while more expensive, the Faital is a far better driver than the Dayton.


@Decadent_Spectre made a point about "dryness" which we also spoke about on the phone. the morel woofer in your mains isn't exactly dry.

Using a pro woofer in a sealed enclosure results in a "dry" sound, at least that is how I would describe it. EQ can easily remedy this if desired within the drivers excursion and power limits.

The other day i measured with an android app - I was OK with about 87 dB - 90 dB at my listening position..

Isnt 105 dB too loud ?

I am not sure how accurate the android app is but 80-90db at listening position is a common level for many home audio systems oweing to the limited output of most home speakers and because most people don't like it too loud on a regular basis.

To me 105db is just right, perhaps on the louder side, but very much how I enjoy music. I have noticed that most people consider it too loud.

as @kapvin points out- my mains speakers arent exactly "dry" sounding so i guess it will be a hit or a miss thing here..

I am doing a sealed enclosure here.

have to wait and watch if the dry and wet meet or they disagree

Do not worry, if you feel it is not right then try to get some form of DSP, like the Behringer DCX2496 or the MiniDSP. The DSP will enable you to tune the sound to preference across the entire frequency range.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Sailing on the same boat. Ordered Dayton Pa460-8 for a VBSS build. The box is too big to fit in my parents luggage (they are returning from US). Forced to return and compromise on 12 inch SW (Ultimax) as they suit luggage better. have missed some lucrative deals and am waiting Thanks giving deals.

IMO there is nothing special about the dayton pa460, it is often used on AVS because it is cheap in the US for the displacement it offers. You can get pro drivers which will offer more displacement than it locally and IMO will be better sounding. Of course if you subscribe to AVS then pretty much all drivers sound the same with the same frequency response. The Faital suggested in this thread is a good driver and should make you happy. I do not know the current price but you may also like the 18sound 21LW1400. I have some in sealed enclosures that I made years ago and at the time I think I got it for about 25,000 INR each. To my ears it is a nice sounding driver. If it matters to you it has been tested on data bass but these tests don't tell you how a driver sounds IMO. Whatever you do, all the very best!

 

[Hari Iyer]

what to do bro ?

am going on a hunch and i dont know where i will end up but am OK with this gamble.

regards

mpw, after looking at the TSP of your driver, i have a hunch that a H-frame OB will suit better than the sealed imo in terms of speed and room balance.

 

[mpw]

mpw, after looking at the TSP of your driver, i have a hunch that a H-frame OB will suit better than the sealed imo in terms of speed and room balance.

lets see how the build goes...

regards

Using a pro woofer in a sealed enclosure results in a "dry" sound, at least that is how I would describe it. EQ can easily remedy this if desired within the drivers excursion and power limits.

I am not sure how accurate the android app is but 80-90db at listening position is a common level for many home audio systems oweing to the limited output of most home speakers and because most people don't like it too loud on a regular basis.

To me 105db is just right, perhaps on the louder side, but very much how I enjoy music. I have noticed that most people consider it too loud.

Do not worry, if you feel it is not right then try to get some form of DSP, like the Behringer DCX2496 or the MiniDSP. The DSP will enable you to tune the sound to preference across the entire frequency range.

I plan to use the high level inputs on the subwoofer plate amplifier Hypex DS4.0

i wonder if i have to use the DSP then would i have to use the sub out from my integrated amp ?

ideally i would like 1 less piece of electronics in the chain

 

[kapvin]

Using a pro woofer in a sealed enclosure results in a "dry" sound, at least that is how I would describe it. EQ can easily remedy this if desired within the drivers excursion and power limits.







Do not worry, if you feel it is not right then try to get some form of DSP, like the Behringer DCX2496 or the MiniDSP. The DSP will enable you to tune the sound to preference across the entire frequency range.

@mpw and I had exactly the same discussion a couple of weeks ago. And about box size. a large box is likely to be highly overdamped, plus a really lean sound. (though this is the sound I prefer, especially with Room gain to eq things out)

A simple thing would be be to undersize and then eq. that would add "springiness" (for the lack of a better word) to the bass. but the outstanding character of this woofer is its clean sound

 

[arunkvivek]

mpw, after looking at the TSP of your driver, i have a hunch that a H-frame OB will suit better than the sealed imo in terms of speed and room balance.

Hariji, I have been trying read threads about H-frame SW placement closer to the walls but not many have favorable opinions. How close can you place H-frame SW to the front wall? I would love to hear your experience.

 

[mpw]

@mpw and I had exactly the same discussion a couple of weeks ago. And about box size. a large box is likely to be highly overdamped, plus a really lean sound. (though this is the sound I prefer, especially with Room gain to eq things out)

A simple thing would be be to undersize and then eq. that would add "springiness" (for the lack of a better word) to the bass. but the outstanding character of this woofer is its clean sound

@kapvin

define - large size

as of now i have a calculated internal volume of 150 liters

and define overdamped - does this refer to the amount of damping materials to be used inside the enclosure ? or vice versa

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I plan to use the high level inputs on the subwoofer plate amplifier Hypex DS4.0

i wonder if i have to use the DSP then would i have to use the sub out from my integrated amp ?

ideally i would like 1 less piece of electronics in the chain

Hi, sorry I do not know exactly what your chain/sources is/are, and honestly I do not know about the current crop of home audio products, my chain is all pro audio components, so using a DSP is not a problem. I designed my setup that way, as such I have no receivers/pre/pros/dedicated DACs etc in my chain.

@mpw and I had exactly the same discussion a couple of weeks ago. And about box size. a large box is likely to be highly overdamped, plus a really lean sound. (though this is the sound I prefer, especially with Room gain to eq things out)

A simple thing would be be to undersize and then eq. that would add "springiness" (for the lack of a better word) to the bass. but the outstanding character of this woofer is its clean sound

Are you referring to the Qtc of a sealed enclosure? If so I wouldn't pay it too much mind within reason. I personally size for excursion vs power if designing for output in the lower bass below 30Hz. If designing for sound quality I think it depends but in general I would prefer larger enclosures. For output though one needs to be wary with the amount of power they plan to use as in a larger enclosure the excursion will get out of hand quickly as the frequency drops.