Even an integrated has pre and power stages and hence the analogy is the same.
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- Thread starter coaltrain
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Even an integrated has pre and power stages and hence the analogy is the same.
Update
A few weeks ago, just prior to the Blore DIY workshop, Santhosh, Rajiv and Stevieboy dropped by to listen to my new setup. While all 3 liked the midrange on offer, they felt the bass was letting the side down. Heres a summary of their expert advice:
- Give the amp some more time to run in (it had done about 20 hours at that point)
- Change the power cords on amp and cdp (I was using bog standard computer cords for both)
- Get rid of the cheapo extension cord (18 feet long and very thin cable)
- Try some tube rolling
Under normal circumstances, I wouldve left the system alone for a while. After all, my bronze ears were quite happy with the sound I was getting However, Rajiv had one very important point to make, and it had nothing to do with SQ. According to him, the malnourished power cords and extension cable were detrimental to the amps health. If the amp needed a surge of current and the cables didnt deliver, damage to the amp was always a possibility.
Well, that got my attention, all right! The only question was: how much would I have to shell out for decent cables?
Well, the helpful trio had another suggestion for me: get in touch with Mr.Murthy of Tools and Trade in Commercial St. He would be able to make me some DIY cables that would be vastly superior to the stuff I was using. And, the price wouldnt break the bank.
Well, as soon as I got a free weekend, I did just that. And what a pleasure it was to meet Mr.Murthy. A thorough gentleman, soft spoken and humble, you wont catch him spouting his encyclopedic knowledge of hifi unless you press him to divulge more. He agreed to make me 2 power cords and a distribution box with a 2 metre cable attached. Total cost: 5k for the 2 cords; 2k for the box and cable. In my opinion, a small price to pay to ensure the safety of 6 figure gear.
A week later, the power cords were ready, but not the box. Well, I couldnt wait to check them out, could I? I was very keen to see (hear?) if they actually did make a difference to the overall sound. Instead of plugging them into the old extension box, I plugged them directly into a UPS unit and was good to go.
Right off the bat, I could tell that the sound had improved. Nothing earth shattering, mind you, just a bit more of everything. It was as if the entire system was breathing easier and more confidently. But before the cynics scream placebo!, here are some quick points Id like to highlight:
- The difference was subtle, not night and day. I was listening intently to recordings I am very familiar with. Hence, I could easily spot musical nuances that had eluded me before.
- Soundstaging, detail and bass response were the biggest gainers. However, that doesnt mean the bass is now better than the Primare. Its just better than it was before.
- I couldnt detect any major change in the midrange, which was pretty good to begin with.
- BTW, at the time of the cord change, the system had done 50+ hours. I hadnt really noticed any major positive effects from running in. Perhaps, I wasnt paying attention and/or the effect was too subtle.
But lets put aside SQ for a moment. Heres something unusual I noticed:
Ive gotten into the habit of touching the transformer casing after shutting down the system. Simply to check how hot it is after a listening session. With the old cables, the right side of the transformer was always hotter than the left. I figured it was the off-centre ceiling fan that was cooling one side! But now, with the new power cords in place, the transformer is uniformly hot across its entire surface.
What this means in technical terms, I have no clue. Is it a sign that the amp is now working more efficiently? Perhaps, the tech folks here can shed some light.
At the end of the day, Im really glad I switched power cords. For the price Ive paid, the peace of mind alone was worth the price of admission. Id like to offer my sincere thanks to Santhosh, Rajiv and Stevieboy for their valuable inputs. And to Mr.Murthy, for supplying such a well made and VFM product.
If youd like to get in touch with Mr.Murthy, do let me know and Ill share his contact details. Having gone through this exercise, Id definitely recommend that you give better power cords a try. Im sure the sonic benefits would be system dependant to a certain extent. But if youve got a revealing setup, surely its worth a dekho.
A few weeks ago, just prior to the Blore DIY workshop, Santhosh, Rajiv and Stevieboy dropped by to listen to my new setup. While all 3 liked the midrange on offer, they felt the bass was letting the side down. Heres a summary of their expert advice:
- Give the amp some more time to run in (it had done about 20 hours at that point)
- Change the power cords on amp and cdp (I was using bog standard computer cords for both)
- Get rid of the cheapo extension cord (18 feet long and very thin cable)
- Try some tube rolling
Under normal circumstances, I wouldve left the system alone for a while. After all, my bronze ears were quite happy with the sound I was getting
However, Rajiv had one very important point to make, and it had nothing to do with SQ. According to him, the malnourished power cords and extension cable were detrimental to the amps health. If the amp needed a surge of current and the cables didnt deliver, damage to the amp was always a possibility.Well, that got my attention, all right! The only question was: how much would I have to shell out for decent cables?
Well, the helpful trio had another suggestion for me: get in touch with Mr.Murthy of Tools and Trade in Commercial St. He would be able to make me some DIY cables that would be vastly superior to the stuff I was using. And, the price wouldnt break the bank.
Well, as soon as I got a free weekend, I did just that. And what a pleasure it was to meet Mr.Murthy. A thorough gentleman, soft spoken and humble, you wont catch him spouting his encyclopedic knowledge of hifi unless you press him to divulge more. He agreed to make me 2 power cords and a distribution box with a 2 metre cable attached. Total cost: 5k for the 2 cords; 2k for the box and cable. In my opinion, a small price to pay to ensure the safety of 6 figure gear.
A week later, the power cords were ready, but not the box. Well, I couldnt wait to check them out, could I? I was very keen to see (hear?) if they actually did make a difference to the overall sound. Instead of plugging them into the old extension box, I plugged them directly into a UPS unit and was good to go.
Right off the bat, I could tell that the sound had improved. Nothing earth shattering, mind you, just a bit more of everything. It was as if the entire system was breathing easier and more confidently. But before the cynics scream placebo!, here are some quick points Id like to highlight:
- The difference was subtle, not night and day. I was listening intently to recordings I am very familiar with. Hence, I could easily spot musical nuances that had eluded me before.
- Soundstaging, detail and bass response were the biggest gainers. However, that doesnt mean the bass is now better than the Primare. Its just better than it was before.
- I couldnt detect any major change in the midrange, which was pretty good to begin with.
- BTW, at the time of the cord change, the system had done 50+ hours. I hadnt really noticed any major positive effects from running in. Perhaps, I wasnt paying attention and/or the effect was too subtle.
But lets put aside SQ for a moment. Heres something unusual I noticed:
Ive gotten into the habit of touching the transformer casing after shutting down the system. Simply to check how hot it is after a listening session. With the old cables, the right side of the transformer was always hotter than the left. I figured it was the off-centre ceiling fan that was cooling one side! But now, with the new power cords in place, the transformer is uniformly hot across its entire surface.
What this means in technical terms, I have no clue. Is it a sign that the amp is now working more efficiently? Perhaps, the tech folks here can shed some light.
At the end of the day, Im really glad I switched power cords. For the price Ive paid, the peace of mind alone was worth the price of admission. Id like to offer my sincere thanks to Santhosh, Rajiv and Stevieboy for their valuable inputs. And to Mr.Murthy, for supplying such a well made and VFM product.
If youd like to get in touch with Mr.Murthy, do let me know and Ill share his contact details. Having gone through this exercise, Id definitely recommend that you give better power cords a try. Im sure the sonic benefits would be system dependant to a certain extent. But if youve got a revealing setup, surely its worth a dekho.
Hi coaltrain,
You got a beautiful room, very tastefully done and a nice stereo setup. I just noticed your thread (these days I am not a regular on the forum) and it was a joy to go through the first post of the thread. Thanks for the beautiful pictures.
I also took a quick glance at your last post. You are getting very good advice. I also got a tube amp, and in my case the bass (both in quality and quantity) and fullbodiedness of the sound improved a great deal after I put in better power cords with Furutech gold connectors. Another tweak will improve the performance noticeably - that is, if you can dampen any possible mechanical vibrations to reduce microphonics for both the amp and the CDP.
Regards.
You got a beautiful room, very tastefully done and a nice stereo setup. I just noticed your thread (these days I am not a regular on the forum) and it was a joy to go through the first post of the thread. Thanks for the beautiful pictures.
I also took a quick glance at your last post. You are getting very good advice. I also got a tube amp, and in my case the bass (both in quality and quantity) and fullbodiedness of the sound improved a great deal after I put in better power cords with Furutech gold connectors. Another tweak will improve the performance noticeably - that is, if you can dampen any possible mechanical vibrations to reduce microphonics for both the amp and the CDP.
Regards.
Hi Coaltrain,
Ah a nice step towards safety and then sound improvement. One more thing you could add is an isolation transformer from murthy. Will provide cleaner power and importantly protection from surges and spikes that might harm your hybrid amp and cd player. Makes a bigger difference to the sound than the power cords. You'll find more detail becoming audible bass should tighten up further. Will be miles ahead of the ups you currently have in the corner. Weigh the cost (about 10k) against overall system cost. He might let you try one for a week also.
PMing you my number. Been a bit crazy at work.
Regards
Ah a nice step towards safety and then sound improvement. One more thing you could add is an isolation transformer from murthy. Will provide cleaner power and importantly protection from surges and spikes that might harm your hybrid amp and cd player. Makes a bigger difference to the sound than the power cords. You'll find more detail becoming audible bass should tighten up further. Will be miles ahead of the ups you currently have in the corner. Weigh the cost (about 10k) against overall system cost. He might let you try one for a week also.
PMing you my number. Been a bit crazy at work.
Regards
@ asit
hi asit
many thanks for your kind words and 'sound' advice
having had my eyes (and ears!) opened by such a simple upgrade, I'll definitely give isolation a try. considering that such tweaks can be easily attempted without a major outlay, there's no reason not to experiment.
btw, if I'm not mistaken you're the proud owner of a beautiful Leben amp, right? you'll be glad to know that your posts where partly responsible for my inclination towards tubes
@ stevieboy
hi stevie
got your pm and will reply in a minute. I'm still counting on you for the 'tube rolling' session
btw, I'm in the process of installing an online ups. the standalone ups units for the home theatre setup and pc have been giving problems. I figured I'd just go in for a 3KVA unit that took care of everything. do you think I'll need an isolation transformer in addition to this?
regarding the free trial from Mr.Murthy: he still hasn't collected the money for the power cords! 'try them out and tell me what you think' is what he said to me. what a pleasure it is to deal with someone who puts customer satisfaction before 'dhanda'!
hi asit
many thanks for your kind words and 'sound' advice
having had my eyes (and ears!) opened by such a simple upgrade, I'll definitely give isolation a try. considering that such tweaks can be easily attempted without a major outlay, there's no reason not to experiment.
btw, if I'm not mistaken you're the proud owner of a beautiful Leben amp, right? you'll be glad to know that your posts where partly responsible for my inclination towards tubes
@ stevieboy
hi stevie
got your pm and will reply in a minute. I'm still counting on you for the 'tube rolling' session
btw, I'm in the process of installing an online ups. the standalone ups units for the home theatre setup and pc have been giving problems. I figured I'd just go in for a 3KVA unit that took care of everything. do you think I'll need an isolation transformer in addition to this?
regarding the free trial from Mr.Murthy: he still hasn't collected the money for the power cords! 'try them out and tell me what you think' is what he said to me. what a pleasure it is to deal with someone who puts customer satisfaction before 'dhanda'!
Hi Coaltrain,
The online UPS should be good. Quite a few people here use one for their setup. It tends to be a bit noisy though if I remember right? Just PM malvai and ajay124 I remember they use online UPSes. They would be able to clarify.
Regards
The online UPS should be good. Quite a few people here use one for their setup. It tends to be a bit noisy though if I remember right? Just PM malvai and ajay124 I remember they use online UPSes. They would be able to clarify.
Regards
yes, it is noisy. how do I know? got the poor guy to get one home and plug it in!
hence, I've decided to have it installed in the room upstairs.
that's a good idea... further away, the better...
I hope you bought an Emerson Liebert (the online one)... its a great UPS. the SQ becomes clean. one can hear the difference. and it also keeps both the voltage and frequency cycle constant. that i think is what improves the SQ.
the fact that it also protects the equipment from surges and spikes is a bonus!
Have to agree... a beautiful living room.
Not sure if you are married but if you are then you have a very understanding wife!
No way my wife will let me use the living room for music or HT. Not even the bedroom (which is sad since I used to play music all night long or rather to go sleep listening to music previously).
Now I've been banished to another room with my music.
Not sure if you are married but if you are then you have a very understanding wife!
No way my wife will let me use the living room for music or HT. Not even the bedroom (which is sad since I used to play music all night long or rather to go sleep listening to music previously).
Now I've been banished to another room with my music.
@ malvai
got the ups installed over the weekend, and i'm really glad i put it in another room. that thing would have been extra loud under the staircase!
regarding brand, it's merely a local make. however, the same guys have been servicing my office for the last 4 years and have done an excellent job. besides, i need just 2 minutes of backup before the building generator kicks in.
i'm sure you're right about SQ improving with the aid of the clean power on tap. will need to sit down for a serious listen soon.
@ musicbee
LOL!
here's some extra info for you to mull over:
- as you already know, the stereo setup dominates the living room
- the master bedroom has a complete home theatre rig - 5.1 speakers, avr, 2 bdps and a projector
- an xbox is also connected to the ht rig
- there are 6 cupboards/shelves chock full of cds, bds and dvds
- there is no tv
guess that should clear all doubts about my marital status
got the ups installed over the weekend, and i'm really glad i put it in another room. that thing would have been extra loud under the staircase!
regarding brand, it's merely a local make. however, the same guys have been servicing my office for the last 4 years and have done an excellent job. besides, i need just 2 minutes of backup before the building generator kicks in.
i'm sure you're right about SQ improving with the aid of the clean power on tap. will need to sit down for a serious listen soon.
@ musicbee
LOL!
here's some extra info for you to mull over:
- as you already know, the stereo setup dominates the living room
- the master bedroom has a complete home theatre rig - 5.1 speakers, avr, 2 bdps and a projector
- an xbox is also connected to the ht rig
- there are 6 cupboards/shelves chock full of cds, bds and dvds
- there is no tv
guess that should clear all doubts about my marital status
Dear Coaltrain,I shall be interested in the Primare i30 if it is not gone yet !
I am looking for a decent amp for my Martin Logan ESL source speakers.
Room 15+20+10,bright walls,no carpet.input marantz cd 5004,present amps Yamaha AZ2,onkyo 3008 in stereo direct,speakers Dynaudio Audience 70.Music instrumental (sitar)
Vocals Jagjit singh,ustad Fateh Ali khan,Rebecca Pidgeon,Diana Krall etc.Volume moderate.
can you help with some advice ?This will be my first Electrstat.I heard Quads in UK but they were too rich much for my blood !
My [email protected]
I am looking for a decent amp for my Martin Logan ESL source speakers.
Room 15+20+10,bright walls,no carpet.input marantz cd 5004,present amps Yamaha AZ2,onkyo 3008 in stereo direct,speakers Dynaudio Audience 70.Music instrumental (sitar)
Vocals Jagjit singh,ustad Fateh Ali khan,Rebecca Pidgeon,Diana Krall etc.Volume moderate.
can you help with some advice ?This will be my first Electrstat.I heard Quads in UK but they were too rich much for my blood !
My [email protected]
hi ayurmonk
unfortunately, the Primare is long gone.
I'm currently out of the country and will only be back next week. once home, I'll mail you the contact of a fellow member who should be able to help. need to get his email id first.
unfortunately, the Primare is long gone.
I'm currently out of the country and will only be back next week. once home, I'll mail you the contact of a fellow member who should be able to help. need to get his email id first.
Bellofelix
New Member
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Walnut finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
