What is there in a Vinyl?.........Just a thought.....

[prem]

Hi Plamoid, have not heard the 40th anniversary edition of Aqualung. So can’t comment. But thanks for the heads up.

I don’t know what CD player you have. Maybe you should hear your Tull cds on another CD player and decide if you need to change your CD player. If you are looking for a fuller sound from CD player at reasonable prices, then look for one with Philips 1541 or 1543 chip. Compared to a sigma delta chip, details might be a bit less though. For a delta sigma chip based CD player to sound very musical, you need to spend a lot more.

 

[plasmoid]

Hi Plamoid, have not heard the 40th anniversary edition of Aqualung. So can’t comment. But thanks for the heads up.

I don’t know what CD player you have. Maybe you should hear your Tull cds on another CD player and decide if you need to change your CD player. If you are looking for a fuller sound from CD player at reasonable prices, then look for one with Philips 1541 or 1543 chip. Compared to a sigma delta chip, details might be a bit less though. For a delta sigma chip based CD player to sound very musical, you need to spend a lot more.

If interested, you should probably get the 40th anniversary vinyl edition. The Steve Hoffman FMs rave about the sonic and pressing quality.

 

[prem]

Plasmoid, thanks. Will look into it

 

[reignofchaos]

Do you consider 2 x Devialet 400 Amplifier, B&W 802 D3 Speaker, Kubala Sosna (Emotion & Elation) interconnects as state of art?
Then the person owning them prefers Digital ...

Nope - far from it. Not a fan of B&W or Devialet.

 

[smedhavi]

One thing that even I could not understand is why the same album mostly sounds better on vinyl, even if it is a digital recording. I have been wondering since I got my first CD players in 1995 (I always had vinyl). This experience is not related to my rig alone, so it could just be my ears and mind. But then, others around me too confirmed that the vinyl was better. I have a lot of well recorded original CDs from US, UK and Japan, and tried the HD downloads too. One random example could be Rebecca Pidgeon's - The Raven.
An example in India is Jagjit Singh's album Beyond Time (PSLP 1493). The LP claims (with pride ) that it is India's first vocal digital recording, but it still sounds better than the CD. The second song (Chitra's Neend Se Aankh Khuli Hai) starts with a some hard plucked strings. They could never shake me up the same way on digital as on the vinyl; despite 20 years of usage and hence the noise.

 

[koushik]

Nope - far from it. Not a fan of B&W or Devialet.

May be you don't like it but a system of $67000+ (35+22+20) is something very highend, IMO.

 

[jls001]

Sometimes these vinyl versus CD threads feels like the story of the six blind men of Indostan, each of whom felt a part of the elephant and described the elephant in parts.

Vinyl and CD both have their strengths while also exhibiting their respective weaknesses. Some vinyl pressings can sound stunning, while many others are annoyingly bad. Exactly the same thing can be said of CDs. It is therefore wrong to generalise about either medium.

In my opinion, one must play these two formats to complement our music collection (there may be releases available on CD but not on vinyl, and vice versa), and not to show or prove one is superior or inferior. There's no real need to fight religious and internecine wars over the two. The two can live in peace and harmony, and each of us will be the richer for it, musically. Further, in my limited experience good vinyl playback and good CD (or computer) playback sound more similar than different. So I fail to understand the heated debates.

 

[jayants]

Jayant when it comes to old vinyls, it’s a demand supply situation. If you had 500 near mint Angel pressings of Aradhana, it would probably not sell at more than 1000-1500. But there will hardly be a handful of near mint Angel vinyls and hundreds chasing them. So I guess that raises the price. Also when it comes to vinyl there are guys who collect all first pressings of a certain music director or actor or singer. They will want to own a copy irrespective of the price. Which is why certain titles go for crazy prices even when they have very little music to offer. Many times I am not sure if people buy a first press because of better quality or because of its collectible value.

Some people collect coins, some wines, some postcards. Whenever people start collecting something prices start going up. That’s all there is to it. To an outsider it will look very irrational whereas to a collector it seems all fair

Yes its indeed a demand supply situation but demand happens only something is good or better than the present stuff. Over the decades we have lost so many things or rather new things have replaced the old ones/phenomenon but Vinyls is a classic example of where music lovers/listeners still wish to cling on to the past. There definitely should be something in it or otherwise why will the demand shoot up?? And these so called DIGITAL NEW PRESSINGS have made these old pressings more sought after. When someone taste bad then only he will go for something better.



There is nothing wrong if someone is a collector. The product is out in the open for everyone to purchase but why blame the collector if he collects more copies or all copies. Just because it has gone scarce doesn’t mean that we hold the collector responsible for that. Say for many of us use 2 or more Turntables, multiple amps,decks in our audio rig. Why do we do that? Because its our passion,love for those. But none is complaining about us being collectors of these audio systems.



Yes I do agree with u that many a times people do buy a 1st Pressing more for the collectible value than for sheer listening but that is their choice. I rather see a positive side in that. Because of these collectors be it vinyl/cd/decks/turntables/vintage amps atleast music lovers do get a selection of buying something which has been properly used and maintained.

 

[Otpidus]

Apart from the mastering part, which others have highlighted aptly, I feel there is a definite technical difference. We do feel the voice of a known person, “realistic” while talking over phone. Its due to the lower bandwidth of the call. A very similar phenomenon occurs with vinyl. It has approximately 68db of dynamic range whereas a CD has about 96db of dynamic range. At the analogue RCA line level this 28db dynamic range difference equals to several hundred millivolts but RCA line-in specifications were not updated with the advent of CD for maintaining backward compatibility (one of the reason why Chord dacs are 3v at line level against the standard 2v). At the 2v line level a 68db dynamic range audio will have far better signal to noise ratio than a 96db signal. Higher bandwidth of CD reproduced analogue signal is far more prone to interference than its vinyl counterpart. A satisfactory CD audio reproduction therefore depends on a lot more factors including power quality, and surrounding environmental interference than vinyl. Moreover, jitter was one of the major experience killer in the earlier days of digital audio but given the current advancements in clock oscillator “TCXO, VCXO, OCXO” etc its no more a concern as long as we don’t use digital outs. This is one of the reason why a good CD player “mostly” sounds smoother than a digital out to a dac. Just my two cents.

 

[smedhavi]

An example in India is Jagjit Singh's album Beyond Time (PSLP 1493). The LP claims (with pride ) that it is India's first vocal digital recording, but it still sounds better than the CD. The second song (Chitra's Neend Se Aankh Khuli Hai) starts with a some hard plucked strings. They could never shake me up the same way on digital as on the vinyl; despite 20 years of usage and hence the noise

I correct myself. It has been 30 years since I have been playing this LP!

In my opinion, one must play these two formats to complement our music collection (there may be releases available on CD but not on vinyl, and vice versa), and not to show or prove one is superior or inferior. There's no real need to fight religious and internecine wars over the two. The two can live in peace and harmony, and each of us will be the richer for it, musically. Further, in my limited experience good vinyl playback and good CD (or computer) playback sound more similar than different. So I fail to understand the heated debates.

A bit too late for this argument The CD is dead.

For many decades, I bought CDs and then went hunting for the vinyl whenever I liked a CD. I do have several specially designed chests full of CDs, so the picture in my mind isn't a blindly painted as one might imagine. I even bought the same album on CD again because I got a better cut (HDCD, XRCD etc.), but the hunt eventually stopped only when I found the vinyl.

 

[pakecc]

"What is there in vinyl" - Of course, a great analogue music for every music lover and enthusiast.

Just a thought on the current trend - "What is there in Vinyl" - Lot of money for the Opportunist and Businessmen making use of the Vinyl uprise in India.

Envy? - Word used only by Boys.

 

[jayants]

There is no dirth of evil souls who will keep envying others and feel jealous about. It has been always there. These souls had been present in all trends...... past,present and future as well. They r expert in only 1 thing and i.e. to creeb and envy others and spoil a discussion thread with their opinions. One can only pity them for their thought process.

Grow up son.......

 

[Nikhil]

Guys,

Please keep the discussion civil and avoid disparaging comments directed at other forum members.
If this is not followed we will be forced to censor posts and issue warnings to the respective forum members.

I hope that it does not come to that and better sense prevails.

Regards.

.

 

[audiohifi]

And I have no doubt that you know nothing about digital.
Keep glorifying analogue, I have no issue. I personally I don't like vinyl, but that's okay, that's me. I have no problem with people listening to it, selling them at premium and glorifying it, but refrain from comparing vinyls with digital music. Its okay to believe in flat earth. Don't ridicules digital, don't get ridiculed.

And there are few fake IDs in FB who come together to strengthen their discussion together. I am sure it is not happening here. Bapa1967, Audiohifi and Jayants are well known and different members.

If you personally do not like Vinyl then why on the 1st place are you here in this discussion? You won't be adding any value to this except creating more dischord. On the contrary you could use this thread and section more judiciously by reading through what the experts say and improve your knowledge and liking towards Vinyls.

What has selling Vinyls to do here in this context? Is selling Vinyls a taboo to the society? These statements which you are making it only brings in disrespect to all the sellers who are using the buying and selling platform of this wonderful forum.

Fake IDs? I hope Moderators are taking a note of these type of judgements here. Mr.Kaushik, if that is your real name ,just because you are in the receiving end of a discussion doesn't mean that all has ganged up against you coming together. There are some wonderful posts by others in the same discussion topic here,who hv a different opinion but all of them are with respect which is indeed a learning for all of us as how to post in a public forum.

 

[audiohifi]

Guys,

Please keep the discussion civil and avoid disparaging comments directed at other forum members.
If this is not followed we will be forced to censor posts and issue warnings to the respective forum members.

I hope that it does not come to that and better sense prevails.

Regards.

.

100% agreed.

 

[dr khanwelkar]

Going through the discussion I do have sincere doubts on the credibility of the knowledge that koushik & pakecc has on this Topic. It seems from the posts that they are making here that they only listen to digital stuff (if at all they do) and they can go to any extent in ridiculing analogue and related stuff to glorify their taste. Its sickening to say the least. Someone who doubts the capability and output of a Nakamichi 3 head Deck is either insane or knows nothing about hifi audio. He should be spending more time in the Deck section or other foras to upgrade himself rather posting crap and spreading nuisance here.

Aaahh!!!
And I thought,It was foolish of me to buy Nakamichi Dragon,Nakamichi CR3 and Nakamichi DR2 and many Vinyl Records from Jayant.

 

[dr khanwelkar]

And Also "DBX" recording for a further premium of Rs 10.
Most Comical Was DBX for CD recording also.And here DBX means DBX expander and not NR.

 

[dr khanwelkar]

If analogue and digital are equally well mastered then on a very good system both sound fabulous. I have owned digital components of a very high pedigree and well mastered cds sound fabulous. The only reason why old Hindi films sound bad on digital is because they have been poorly mastered. Having said that some of the original Made in England cds of old Hindi titles are fabulous.

If the titles I listen to were well mastered on CD, I would choose digital over vinyl. Unfortunately that’s not the case and hence went with vinyl

Sir,with this view in my mind,I purchased a CD made in England "Saajan" by Melody.There is no difference whatever in "Indian Saajan" and "Melody Saajan"(Lost Rs.2000 for a second hand CD.I take it as a tution fee for learning some thing.)
I am yet to find a system on which Cds sound better than Vinyl.I am using Lyrita Tube pre amp. to listen to Cds if I have to.I can listen full CD at a stretch if I use this.
Today I compared "Sultan of Swings" From Tidal HiFi and on Vinyl and now I am sure Vinyl Sounds way better than the digital.

 

[jayants]

Aaahh!!!
And I thought,It was foolish of me to buy Nakamichi Dragon,Nakamichi CR3 and Nakamichi DR2 and many Vinyl Records from Jayant.

Sir I bet!!

 

[dr khanwelkar]

No Jayant, there’s no listening fatigue with digital if it’s well mastered CD. For example I have owned many of Rahman cds in the past. They sound fabulous with zero fatigue on a good CD player. There’s no way a vinyl can touch that. Incidentally I own Lagaan lp. I clearly prefer the CD in this case. Technically the floor noise of a vinyl will always be higher than a CD. Hence the level of details you will get on a well mastered CD will be way higher than you can ever hope to get on vinyl. It’s unfortunate that well mastered cds of Hindi titles are seldom released. For example I have the very first press of Taal which was never put out in the market. Reason being the dynamic range was so high that it sounded bad on a boom box which was the norm in those days. Hence they remastered it adding compression and loudness. The moment you do that the magic is gone.

Most of the Hindi music released post 90s have their original master on a CD. If you ever listen to a copy of that CD, you’ll be blown. The realness and dynamics is astonishing.

I have produced a Marathi film where I have the master on a CD and also the cds that were put out in the market. The master CD just kills the ones that were put out in the market because the commercial ones were compressed to make it sound loud

I find all these conversation about one format being superior to another very juvenile. It all comes down to which title has been mastered better on CD and which on vinyl.

I would like to experience the marathi CD.
Is it possible to buy it anywhere?