What power conditioners do you use?

[jls001]

This have any difference from one that available in aliexpress? External appearance is same...

Yes, thistle correctly grounded whereas the stock Weiduka is not.

 

[drkrack]

Anybody using an isolation transformer like this one with toroidal transformer?


PT 2000 Ring Type Balanced Isolation Power Supply 2000W Large Power Soft Start 2000W Enthusiast Power Processor

370.5US $ 5% OFF|Pt 2000 Ring Type Balanced Isolation Power Supply 2000w Large Power Soft Start 2000w Enthusiast Power Processor|Amplifier| - AliExpress

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How does this compare to routine power conditioners, considering the efficiency of power conditioner being questionable? Advantages of going this route instead of power conditioners?

 

[magma]

Yes, thistle correctly grounded whereas the stock Weiduka is not.

What Josh means
Is that the one imported for the Indian
Market
Has the ground pin properly connected
( It's not a dummy )

Also the cable is correct according to.indian iso Norms for Indian sockets

P.s
The one imported fornthe Indian subcontinent
Does not sport the weiduka brand simply because a change was requested innthe design in the ground wire andnthe joule capacity

 

[longshanks]

I use emerson liebert gxt mt+ 3kva online ups.

 

[sound_cycle]

Any difference in sound after introducing the Weiduka? You mentioned the hum has gone but any positive change in SQ?

Too many changes. That happened along with it.
The big change was probably getting rid of a smps that was in my ups when I got an lps to power the source. Or keeping the 55" monitor on another MCB. Did these reduce the hum or did the power conditioner ? TBH I don't know.
I run one Vidar on mains power and the other one through the weiduka. The one on the mains has a startup sound, the one through the weiduka I have to check the led to ascertain it is on. And the sound follows the power connection and not the amp.
I don't have the best of power and wiring, so I believe that it contributes to the SQ, but I don't have anything more than a vague impression to substantiate it. I could ofc wire things differently and figure it out. But I have not done that. And I might get one more for the amp that is "direct"

Ciao
GR

 

[sandyjhyderabad]

I have designed a few power conditioners. I have gone to some considerably deeper level. Let me put it this way: The approach in designing the power conditioner depends on the person who is designing it with what intention.

If the designer is an audiophile with outstanding listening capabilities or electrical engineer the way the final result executes is very different and sounds completely different from both approaches.

I have seen both cases which it is designed purely on the mathematical perspective it didn't have any beauty in the sound it was all sounding analytical but never found beauty in subtleties.

What should be the result: It should sound clean but not sterile. It should give clear voices. Transparency increment and to be clearly perceived in airy highs. Even bass should have definition and rounded sound. It should provide an Inky black background to have a sense of space around instruments. All the above effect should not affect the dynamics. It was hard to design with all those things in consideration.

I have tried all and out of 80 iterations, I have figured out it finally that it boils down to material science so a custom material is designed very expensive as solid silver...!
It is very much possible and yet give excellent sound improvement. Some of the forum members have listened to it as well.

Balanced transformers cannot suppress noise to very high frequencies. Limited at max to 20MHz of noise suppression.
Isolation transformers on bigger sizes do hum but happen with most of the bigger transformers when DC enters into the transformer.
It also has inrush current issues when turned on the lights in house dims and need a completely new supporting electronics to deal with the situation or it might damage other equipment in the house.

 

[bornfi]

Anybody using an isolation transformer like this one with toroidal transformer?


PT 2000 Ring Type Balanced Isolation Power Supply 2000W Large Power Soft Start 2000W Enthusiast Power Processor

370.5US $ 5% OFF|Pt 2000 Ring Type Balanced Isolation Power Supply 2000w Large Power Soft Start 2000w Enthusiast Power Processor|Amplifier| - AliExpress

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How does this compare to routine power conditioners, considering the efficiency of power conditioner being questionable? Advantages of going this route instead of power conditioners?

I have Equitech which too has a balanced transformer. I can confidently say that you would like it substantially better than basic ones.

You will get past the bass/treble etc and realize how beautiful music starts sounding.

 

[argentum246]

I have Equitech which too has a balanced transformer. I can confidently say that you would like it substantially better than basic ones.

You will get past the bass/treble etc and realize how beautiful music starts sounding.

Can you share the price / link of purchase?

Guys what is the best power conditioner out there for our AVR and amps, that do not break the bank ?
Can we connect the power conditioner to -- stepdown transformer (for AVR) and UPS (that connects to projector) ?
There are few available on the hifimart? are they good?

 

[ktks1]

Hello,
I'm fairly new to the forum and while browsing through, I found this thread interesting.

I live in an apartment where I'm not allowed to change the wiring or tinker with the mains. I observed that there is a small leakage current present on equipment all the time in all of the rooms!

While I run separate wires from each of my media equipment (looks ugly, but works) to a common ground on my custom built surge protector, I'm not getting a sense of safety when there's a power cut and the diesel generator from the apartment kicks in.

I wanted to know if there are equipments under ₹20K which can ensure the safety of all my media equipment (TV, receiver, Xbox, Ethernet switch, steam link and a personal laptop). If the said equipment improves the SQ, that'd be even better.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
-ktks1

 

[bornfi]

Can you share the price / link of purchase?

Balanced Power, Isolation Transformers: Made In The USA | Equitech

We are the pioneers of balanced power. Our mission is to improve the efficeincy of distributed electricity and the performance of sensitive electronic loads.

www.equitech.com

 

[drkrack]

have Equitech which too has a balanced transformer. I can confidently say that you would like it substantially better

Apparently there's a good difference with Torroidal vs El Core transformer in Isolation transformers. There's a quite a bit of arguments in favor of each type of transformers. The Equitech looks quite steeply priced, whereas the local quotes are less than 20k for 1.5kva isolation transformer. Of course the quality and audiophile usage scenarios will be different.

Whether power conditioner or Isolation transformer, its advisable not to use it for power amplifiers but for rest of the electronics. So a lesser capacity <1.5kva could serve well I guess. I'm currently undecided as to which one is better option. Mostly getting inclined to try an isolation transformer before going for a $$$Power conditioner.

Balanced transformers cannot suppress noise to very high frequencies. Limited at max to 20MHz of noise suppression.
Isolation transformers on bigger sizes do hum but happen with most of the bigger transformers when DC enters into the transformer.

Do we have any reference for this <20mhz suppression? The chance of hum is more with El Core transformers but rarely with Torroidal ones. Again it's all from international forums so I'd be happy to learn.

What should be the result: It should sound clean but not sterile. It should give clear voices. Transparency increment and to be clearly perceived in airy highs. Even bass should have definition and rounded sound. It should provide an Inky black background to have a sense of space around instruments. All the above effect should not affect the dynamics. It was hard to design with all those things in consideration

I doubt only power conditioner will have impact on all these factors, because other electronics and synergy seems to impart a lot of impact on overall SQ in my experience. I have seen systems sounding nearly ideal without power conditioners using exotic materials, correct me if I'm wrong. Power in music setup is like blood in the veins of body, runs from one end to other ; so purity of power will definitely have a impact on most of the elements. I'm really curious, what exotic materials, other than silver soldering, it'd be great if you could share (I completely understand the commercial reasons if you can't).

 

[sandyjhyderabad]

Hi Karthik you need to look into the fact that the inductor is as good as the core. The signal and power both are basically power but at different levels. Coming to the Isolation transformer based version it has certain drawbacks yes hum is one problem either toroidal or EI both have some levels of it but usually EI transformers have more hum and EI isolation transformers as its construction is different. I have tested both of them of same value.
we have the measured data about why it doesn't work beyond certain frequency as there is magnetic isolation and there is static. Magnetic value degrades over frequency but static dont but in the case audiophiles doesnt like the active devices coming in between anywhere in the chain.

Certain secrets are not revealed even though they look similar the implementation and materials are very different.

Isolation transformers anything beyond 300VA will have inrush current problems which in turn might damage other equipment in the chain or house. There are ways and different circuitry to suppress these and run smooth.

Overall its fairly complex to explain. But its much easier to get something complete unit off the shelf than trying to build it as there are lots of pitfalls which might damage somethings or sometimes its life threatening.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
Overall its fairly complex to explain. But its much easier to get something complete unit off the shelf than trying to build it as there are lots of pitfalls which might damage somethings or sometimes its life threatening.

We understand it is complex. Please demystify it with some literature that doesn't come under NDA.
It will help if forum members can read up cohesively about your design philosophy, solution paradigms and final product/s.
Basically something that addresses common "Why, What, When, Where" queries. The "How" we understand is confidential.
Please ignore the above request, if you have already done so earlier.
Disclosure: I am not looking for Power Conditioners

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[newlash09]

Not to derail the thread. But i use a Ps audio P1200 pure power regenerator and a isotek evo 3 Polaris power conditioner in my system. Power cables are also decent from triode labs .

And to my ears, neither of them make any difference to my power amps. I find that they have an improvement on small box components like my streamer, dac, router and preamp.

So in my limited understanding, it is my humble opinion, that components like power amps with their large transformers and huge capacitors, filter out the power gremlins on their own.

It is only small components like dac's and preamps, which don't have very robust power supplies and large caps inside , that can't filter power on their own and might benefit from external power conditioning.

I could be entirely wrong here. But the above is what I sincerely believe with my own extensive experimentation. Cheers...and please don't shoot the messenger

PS : despite my above observations, my entire setup is still driven off the PS audio p1200 power plant as it offers some stellar protection from all electrical power gremlins,including surge and lightning strikes

 

[sandyjhyderabad]

Hi Newlash if you are not able to hear the difference despite of higher quality power supplies then its the speaker which is the culprit. If you have a really really high-end Ribbon-based tweeter and superb isolated speaker from vibrations. Yes, even the change in the power plug can be clearly heard.

 

[square_wave]

@newlash09 , have you tried connecting the power amp to the ps audio directly instead of going through the isotek ? Power amps do not like power conditioners. Best is to connect them directly to the mains or to a well made regenerator like ps audio.

 

[magma]

Not to derail the thread. But i use a Ps audio P1200 pure power regenerator and a isotek evo 3 Polaris power conditioner in my system. Power cables are also decent from triode labs .

And to my ears, neither of them make any difference to my power amps. I find that they have an improvement on small box components like my streamer, dac, router and preamp.

So in my limited understanding, it is my humble opinion, that components like power amps with their large transformers and huge capacitors, filter out the power gremlins on their own.

It is only small components like dac's and preamps, which don't have very robust power supplies and large caps inside , that can't filter power on their own and might benefit from external power conditioning.

I could be entirely wrong here. But the above is what I sincerely believe with my own extensive experimentation. Cheers...and please don't shoot the messenger

PS : despite my above observations, my entire setup is still driven off the PS audio p1200 power plant as it offers some stellar protection from all electrical power gremlins,including surge and lightning strikes

I like this guy
Staright arrow

 

[newlash09]

Hi Newlash if you are not able to hear the difference despite of higher quality power supplies then its the speaker which is the culprit. If you have a really really high-end Ribbon-based tweeter and superb isolated speaker from vibrations. Yes, even the change in the power plug can be clearly heard.

Hi Sandy....Thanks for your reply

I must admit I don't have good hearing. It's been damaged by exposure to high noise and high vibration mechanical work spaces where I've been all my life. But other than that I think the audio chain is not be blamed. My speaker sit on isoacoustics gaia3 isolators. And my kit on ohlenbach air spring xL's. So might be my hearing, but certainly no fault of the kit I think

@newlash09 , have you tried connecting the power amp to the ps audio directly instead of going through the isotek ? Power amps do not like power conditioners. Best is to connect them directly to the mains or to a well made regenerator like ps audio.

Hi square wave...I tried both. Nothing ever makes the krell blink even once. Iam just posting a pic of its internals. Those huge transformers, one per each channel and 2 beer can sized caps per channel, can sort out the power for themselves.. neither the PS audio or the isotek have the slightest effect on them. And the same applies to the parasound too. No change at all direct to wall, or direct to ps audio p1200 or isotek...no change at all. That is the hall mark of a well designed amp I guess. They have to have robust and well designed power supplies to sort the power out.

 

[square_wave]

Hi square wave...I tried both. Nothing ever makes the krell blink even once. Iam just posting a pic of its internals. Those huge transformers, one per each channel and 2 beer can sized caps per channelView attachment 36942View attachment 36943, can sort out the power for themselves.. neither the PS audio or the isotek have the slightest effect on them. And the same applies to the parasound too. No change at all direct to wall, or direct to ps audio p1200 or isotek...no change at all. That is the hall mark of a well designed amp I guess. They have to have robust and well designed power supplies to sort the power out.

I believe you That amp is one of the greatest ever made. Hall of fame ! I wish I had one.

 

[sandyjhyderabad]

@newlash09 , have you tried connecting the power amp to the ps audio directly instead of going through the isotek ? Power amps do not like power conditioners. Best is to connect them directly to the mains or to a well-made regenerator like ps audio.

If you have the right power conditioner then you will find good improvement in sound quality. Check with sajad and nikhil who owns Rega they too have observed it. That is the challenge in the power conditioner design for the audiophiles that You want better sound leveraged from the entire system yet dynamics don't get suppressed.