Which amp for BE-718 and Ayon CD-1s?
- Thread starter AMITNOIDA
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ajay124
Well-Known Member
It most certainly is Rajiv!But at three times the price.
+20 to that !!
Thanks Manav, got your PM. This may be one of the best option if the amp is to be changed.
Although, this thread is for amp selection, but at the end of the day the most important is to improve the sound. If you think that BE-718 is the weakest link, you may share your logic for the same. I think Psychotropic, Capt Rajesh and Manav also put their logic why speaker option can not be discussed although the thread is for Amp, beacause the ultimate objective is to improve the sound. I like the tweeter of BE-718 speaker and I think this is it's USP. Of course, I have not got the opportunity to listen to much of the speakers except proac, omega (fostex driver older model), lyrita, monitor audio and Avant Garde. So there may be many hidden gems in my uncharted territory, which will bring more satisfaction and listening pleasure using the other two equipments in my chain. Dr.Bass - off course you can suggest speakers.
Thanks Ajay, your suggestion of trying Lyrita is already in my mind. And Viren is always a person to be admired. But I have doubt, whether my 15 WPC leben will be able to drive ProAc 1sc. It may be good for ProAc Tablette. No doubt, Proac sound is very lively and enjoyable.
You are spot on Amit...
However, if the task is to keep it uncomlicated, then, I'd suggest that you give the 718's clean, detailed power. That would do the trick for you. The Levinson amps are known for the detail and the 200wpc behemoth cab drive ANYTHING!
You might just end up not changing the speakers!
However, if the task is to keep it uncomlicated, then, I'd suggest that you give the 718's clean, detailed power. That would do the trick for you. The Levinson amps are known for the detail and the 200wpc behemoth cab drive ANYTHING!
You might just end up not changing the speakers!
IMO this is the way to go and is something I would do if I was in your shoes. At the end of the day tube amps are magic but the speakers have to match. I always match my quicksilvers with speakers that can handle them well - in this case the B&W n805's and have the stratos reserved for the 718's. Regardless do try a powerful amp. with your 718's and watch them sing.
Cheers
Sid
hi psychotropic -
but, really, that speaker (Be 718) should be given a decent burial -
and should not be allowed to offend.
regds
suri
sameer kumar
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest Symphonic line amp.I have auditioned Symphonic line RG7 on BE 718 and they together delivered superb sound.
You can consider Symphonic line RG10 Integrated amp (2 x 140 watt at 8 Ohm).
You can consider Symphonic line RG10 Integrated amp (2 x 140 watt at 8 Ohm).
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I agree with Sid on this, the 718's will need heavy duty amplification to sing properly.... Thank heavens your cdp has a preamp in it so you can simply go for the most powerful amp that you can buy in your budget!
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audiodelic
Well-Known Member
That would have to be a pair of emotiva xpa-1 monoblocks 500w@8ohms, headroom and the need to never upgrade or xpa-2 300w@8ohms
pratimbayal
Active Member
I have seen 2/3 feed back on net on the topic. According to them they have tried numerous amps with BE 718 and usher 0wn amp R 1.5 is the best match with in affordable range ( may be 5/6 k usd).one of them was actually trying to build an amp ( commercial purpose) for BE 718 and was trying almost every amp for that.
How about bryston 4 BS T with. BE 718
Cheers
How about bryston 4 BS T with. BE 718
Cheers
Pratim, IMHO, the ST series is a lot more 'raw' than the more refined SST and SST2.
I'd avoid it. See, you and amit have the same speakers and they'd mate with a powerful but detailed amp. The older Bryston BS T series will give your the power but not the kind of refinement that you would hope for...
I did not want to write about the flaws of the Be718 out here but I see that some people are already starting to provide amplification recommendations for this speaker which I completely disagree with, hence I will write
.
I have always been in favour of providing high quality amplification to a "high" quality speaker. In fact I have always owned speakers which demand amplifiers costing more than the speaker price and I have fulfilled the demands of such speakers. But providing high quality amplification to a "low" quality speaker is a total blunder almost to the point of foolishness in my books. Mark Levinsons and Symphonic Lines are BMWs of high end audio. Be718 is at best a Maruti Zen. A zen should work fine with an engine of its own level, if it doesnt, you know there is something wrong in the design....do not try to fix it by providing BMW's mechanicals. It will still remain a Zen, but you would have spent enough money to buy a Civic. Okay thats too much of Automobile, back to Be718.
What is it that I do not like about them:
1. Midrange : The midrange is the most screwed up aspect of this speaker. It is hollow, bloated, colored and lifeless. There is no correlation between what it generates in the midrange to the real instruments. I do not expect this level of nuisance from a speaker costing 100k.
2. Bass : Some people say you can make the bass work by providing powerful amplification. My Symphonic Line could not make it work. At least not even close to what I am used to. Typically I hear a very one-note thick thump which they call "Bass". To me it is something else.
3. Treble : Here it is interesting. It has a HF presentation which I have never heard in any speaker. It is extended, clean, sweet and open. Never in your face. This is one good thing about this speaker. This is what deceives buyers to fall for it. You get to hear some good female vocals, again courtesy goes to the tweeter. Some nice open strings, same, its the tweeter doing some magic. However I find its presentation to be very "fairy tale" like. Everything sounds like an Angel. Beautiful and Romantic. To me, it is again a coloration which I do not understand. Every singer, every instrument, every recording just cannot be romantic and sweet. It is NOT. I have heard some of the best tweeters and they sound like real instruments, sometimes raw and at other times sweet, depending on the input material. However I would still give it to the Beryllium tweeter for making music, whatever they do, they are musical, hence a thumbs up.
So, there you go. Dont kill me for all this. I did not want to write, you guys provoked me
.
So for me, trying to make this speaker work by spending more money is total blunder. Do it at your own risk. I am not suggesting any amps for the speaker though.
If you want speaker suggestions, do provide some details, Budget, room size, music preference etc...
.I have always been in favour of providing high quality amplification to a "high" quality speaker. In fact I have always owned speakers which demand amplifiers costing more than the speaker price and I have fulfilled the demands of such speakers. But providing high quality amplification to a "low" quality speaker is a total blunder almost to the point of foolishness in my books. Mark Levinsons and Symphonic Lines are BMWs of high end audio. Be718 is at best a Maruti Zen. A zen should work fine with an engine of its own level, if it doesnt, you know there is something wrong in the design....do not try to fix it by providing BMW's mechanicals. It will still remain a Zen, but you would have spent enough money to buy a Civic. Okay thats too much of Automobile, back to Be718.
What is it that I do not like about them:
1. Midrange : The midrange is the most screwed up aspect of this speaker. It is hollow, bloated, colored and lifeless. There is no correlation between what it generates in the midrange to the real instruments. I do not expect this level of nuisance from a speaker costing 100k.
2. Bass : Some people say you can make the bass work by providing powerful amplification. My Symphonic Line could not make it work. At least not even close to what I am used to. Typically I hear a very one-note thick thump which they call "Bass". To me it is something else.
3. Treble : Here it is interesting. It has a HF presentation which I have never heard in any speaker. It is extended, clean, sweet and open. Never in your face. This is one good thing about this speaker. This is what deceives buyers to fall for it. You get to hear some good female vocals, again courtesy goes to the tweeter. Some nice open strings, same, its the tweeter doing some magic. However I find its presentation to be very "fairy tale" like. Everything sounds like an Angel. Beautiful and Romantic. To me, it is again a coloration which I do not understand. Every singer, every instrument, every recording just cannot be romantic and sweet. It is NOT. I have heard some of the best tweeters and they sound like real instruments, sometimes raw and at other times sweet, depending on the input material. However I would still give it to the Beryllium tweeter for making music, whatever they do, they are musical, hence a thumbs up.
So, there you go. Dont kill me for all this. I did not want to write, you guys provoked me
. So for me, trying to make this speaker work by spending more money is total blunder. Do it at your own risk. I am not suggesting any amps for the speaker though.
If you want speaker suggestions, do provide some details, Budget, room size, music preference etc...
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I did not want to write about the flaws of the Be718 out here but I see that some people are already starting to provide amplification recommendations for this speaker which I completely disagree with, hence I will write
I have always been in favour of providing high quality amplification to a "high" quality speaker. In fact I have always owned speakers which demand amplifiers costing more than the speaker price and I have fulfilled the demands of such speakers. But providing high quality amplification to a "low" quality speaker is a total blunder almost to the point of foolishness in my books. Mark Levinsons and Symphonic Lines are BMWs of high end audio. Be718 is at best a Maruti Zen. A zen should work fine with an engine of its own level, if it doesnt, you know there is something wrong in the design....do not try to fix it by providing BMW's mechanicals. It will still remain a Zen, but you would have spent enough money to buy a Civic. Okay thats too much of Automobile, back to Be718.
What is it that I do not like about them:
1. Midrange : The midrange is the most screwed up aspect of this speaker. It is hollow, bloated, colored and lifeless. There is no correlation between what it generates in the midrange to the real instruments. I do not expect this level of nuisance from a speaker costing 100k.
2. Bass : Some people say you can make the bass work by providing powerful amplification. My Symphonic Line could not make it work. At least not even close to what I am used to. Typically I hear a very one-note thick thump which they call "Bass". To me it is something else.
3. Treble : Here it is interesting. It has a HF presentation which I have never heard in any speaker. It is extended, clean, sweet and open. Never in your face. This is one good thing about this speaker. This is what deceives buyers to fall for it. You get to hear some good female vocals, again courtesy goes to the tweeter. Some nice open strings, same, its the tweeter doing some magic. However I find its presentation to be very "fairy tale" like. Everything sounds like an Angel. Beautiful and Romantic. To me, it is again a coloration which I do not understand. Every singer, every instrument, every recording just cannot be romantic and sweet. It is NOT. I have heard some of the best tweeters and they sound like real instruments, sometimes raw and at other times sweet, depending on the input material. However I would still give it to the Beryllium tweeter for making music, whatever they do, they are musical, hence a thumbs up.
So, there you go. Dont kill me for all this. I did not want to write, you guys provoked me
So for me, trying to make this speaker work by spending more money is total blunder. Do it at your own risk. I am not suggesting any amps for the speaker though.
If you want speaker suggestions, do provide some details, Budget, room size, music preference etc...
I have had my disagreements with Dr. Bass in the past about the Be718 and he is absolutely entitled to his opinion based on his experience and listening experience. I however repectfully disagree with his assesment especially in the midrange. I have extensively compared this speaker to my stable of similarly priced monitors that I own the B&W N805 (you can see my detailed comparison in a different post - http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers/8181-odyssey-stratos.html), the Dynaudio focus 110 (almost similar price) and the Paradigm studio20 v3 and quite a few other BS speakers in the similar price range that I do not own and have found this to be an excellent speaker provided right amplification is provided. I have also heard the US version which has different x-overs and to my ears it did not sound very different. I do agree however that this is a difficult load and I do find that high quality/high powered amplification can drive it well in the bass frequencies. I am talking about minimum 150 watts into 8 ohms and 200 watts is even better. Regarding the treble I would equate the Be tweeter to the nautilus tweeter in the 805. I have also found that a decent pre-amp is also a must with this speaker and I have settled for a Parasound JC2 that along with the Odyssey stratos extreme make this baby sing. Anyways this will be my last post on the merits of the 718 - as another poster mentioned - that this is a polarizing speaker - IMO the listener has to choose for himself and use opinions of others (including mine) as just that 'opinions'.
Cheers
Sid
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ajay124
Well-Known Member
@DR.Bass
'hollow,bloated,colored and lifeless.one note.'
Based on my hurried,short,45 minute audition I would agree with your adjectives.During an audition I prefer listening to how my cd's are sounding rather than to the equipmenmt.With the BE 718 I experienced a brief rush of excitement when we began with Ella Fitzgerald but after that it was downhill all the way.And when I played my reference cd's Mahlers's 5th,Schubert's 8th and Mozart's Clarinet Concerto the sound was awful.
Personally I don't believe that an audio journey can reach its destination with these speakers(I may be completely wrong).I told Pratim and would say the same to Amit--forum discussions should be taken as general indicators.Ultimately you have to go and listen with your ears and decide with your own mind.
Prolonging this thread into infinty will only leave both of you more confused than when you started it.So get movin...Do those auditions in Bangalore/Chennai/Mumbai...both for amps and speakers...keep an open mind...and an open wallet
'hollow,bloated,colored and lifeless.one note.'
Based on my hurried,short,45 minute audition I would agree with your adjectives.During an audition I prefer listening to how my cd's are sounding rather than to the equipmenmt.With the BE 718 I experienced a brief rush of excitement when we began with Ella Fitzgerald but after that it was downhill all the way.And when I played my reference cd's Mahlers's 5th,Schubert's 8th and Mozart's Clarinet Concerto the sound was awful.
Personally I don't believe that an audio journey can reach its destination with these speakers(I may be completely wrong).I told Pratim and would say the same to Amit--forum discussions should be taken as general indicators.Ultimately you have to go and listen with your ears and decide with your own mind.
Prolonging this thread into infinty will only leave both of you more confused than when you started it.So get movin...Do those auditions in Bangalore/Chennai/Mumbai...both for amps and speakers...keep an open mind...and an open wallet
My room size : 15 x 11 ft
Speaker placement: max 3 ft space in the rear, around 1.5 ft from the side wall
budget: Max 2L
Music Preference : Instrument music (Guitar, piano, saxophone, violin etc.), Fusion music, Indian classical, Bengali song (Mainly Tagore songs), Western soft rock, smooth Jazz, Bolywood songs (sometimes)
Few favourite artists/Groups: Kenny Rogers, Carpenters, Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Dire Straits, Gloria Estefan, England Dan & John, Barbara Striesand, Andrea Boceli, Fourplay, Secret Garden, Leonard Cohen, Diana Ross, Don Williams, Lata Mandeskar, Mohmd Rafi, Asha Bhosle, Kishore Kumar, Manna Dey, Hemanta Mukherjee, Geeta Dutt, Shyamal Mitra, Sandhya Mukherjee, Srikanta Acharya, Ali Akbar Khan, Nikhil Banerjee, Hariprasad Chourasia, Bismilla Khan, Zakir Hussein, Bikram Ghosh, Bhimsen Joshi, Ravi Shankar
Does not like much: Hard rock & Metal,
Regarding BE-718 tweeter, it is really a treat to my ears. May be I like romantic sounds and after listening for about 1 year I am used to it. But I am open to any suggestion and will try to listen to them as far as possible. Yes I can travel to Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore for audition. So Dr. Bass, you can suggest now...
I am open for used speaker also.
But meanwhile suggestion for suitable amp for BE-718 should continue by forum members.
I will finally take decision based on shortlisted options and audition.
In this subject, I have come to close interaction with Pratim and once visited his house at Kolkata also. Somehow, our tastes and expectation matches. In his house, we have listened to BE-718+Cyrus amp 40 WPC+Ayon CD1. We both found the sound good. Even I have heard that one Forum member is happy with listening to BE-718 with Naim integrated amp of 50 WPC. Any opinion on this? Coutesy Mr. Kamal and Mr. Soumen Bagchi I got the opportuity of listening to BE-718 with Bel Canto Ref 1000 MK-II 500 WPC amp and Viren's Lyrita pre and it was enjoyable (room size was approx. 14 x 12 x 11 - yes it was a high ceiling old govt bungalow)
Thank you all the Forum members for your spontaneous suggestions.
just my 2 cents.
although i am not a great Fan of the Ushers (heard the larger floorstander) I have not really heard them well enough to be too critical.
But for my money (and maybe Biased money) I believe the Leben Amps have got their Balance very right and would rather have it as the heart of the system and build a good setup around it.
Ayon has also got its science right i thought its CDP is really good (Ditto amps)
I would agree with Dr bass on the Ushers being the weakest link (Although not in so strong terms !!) So my recommendation would also be to also try out some More speakers before you finally decide on what your call is.
What comes to mind are Proac, Spendors. If you could try out an audition of the Blumenhofer speaker as well you may be in for a pretty nice surprise as i have found them one of the more moving speaker auditions I have done in the past few years (they present music as a real emotional package). I believe the leben should be able to drive them
The Emerald Physics are pretty good too especially in the transparency they provide if you can get used to the planar sound but your amp will not drive them well enough
although i am not a great Fan of the Ushers (heard the larger floorstander) I have not really heard them well enough to be too critical.
But for my money (and maybe Biased money) I believe the Leben Amps have got their Balance very right and would rather have it as the heart of the system and build a good setup around it.
Ayon has also got its science right i thought its CDP is really good (Ditto amps)
I would agree with Dr bass on the Ushers being the weakest link (Although not in so strong terms !!) So my recommendation would also be to also try out some More speakers before you finally decide on what your call is.
What comes to mind are Proac, Spendors. If you could try out an audition of the Blumenhofer speaker as well you may be in for a pretty nice surprise as i have found them one of the more moving speaker auditions I have done in the past few years (they present music as a real emotional package). I believe the leben should be able to drive them
The Emerald Physics are pretty good too especially in the transparency they provide if you can get used to the planar sound but your amp will not drive them well enough
I would tend to agree with Arj and Dr. Bass on one thing - if you decide to keep or use your Leben then the 718 should be replaced - otherwise you are not realizing the full potential of the 718's.
Cheers
Sid
Cheers
Sid
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Yes, you should be looking at the blumenhofers ! I had two extended listens to the two models in town. The Fun 17 and Genuin 4.2. They are some of the best loudspeakers I have heard in the last five years or so!
The design is different from your regular speakers. They have wave guided tweeters and very dynamic sounding woofer designs. Extremely dynamic and lively loudspeakers which keep the connection with the performer intact.
I can draw a parallel to these speakers with the emerald physics. Folks who like the emerald physics will like the blumenhofers too.
The design is different from your regular speakers. They have wave guided tweeters and very dynamic sounding woofer designs. Extremely dynamic and lively loudspeakers which keep the connection with the performer intact.
I can draw a parallel to these speakers with the emerald physics. Folks who like the emerald physics will like the blumenhofers too.
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