Which amp for BE-718 and Ayon CD-1s?

[Kittu]

@captrajesh
The twin towers seemed to be weapons targetting my eardrums!![/I]

:lol: gud1 :lol:

 

[Colecutter]

Viren, Amit and Kamal were over a fortnight ago and we heard the Be718s (US crossover) driven by Bel Canto Ref1000 MkI (500 wpc @ 8ohms) monoblocks. My CD player has a volume control and is plugged directly into the Bel Canto. I like the sound but for CDs recorded at a low volume level I feel the need to turn up the CDP volume beyond 50%. We listened to this setup for while and then Viren added his tube preamp to the mix, and what a difference that made. The sound was fuller, bass tighter, and speakers sang. The Bel Canto has enough power, but it needed a preamp - the passive volume control on CDP is good for many CDs but not all.

Amit, I forgot to mention that day that I have a pair of Proac Response 1SC which we can try out with the same setup and compare with the 718s. Come over sometime and let's hear the difference.

 

[raj]

The blumenhofer cannot be termed as soft . Given the right music, it will blast the living daylights out of ya. Not a speaker for sissies !

Am I beginning to sound like a fanboy ??? :annoyed:

Hearing about blumenhofers for the first time (pardon my ignorance), I looked up these. Man, are they ugly! This is the worst looking speaker I have seen (in pictures that is) - the worst I have seen so far have been Wilson Audio speakers and this one beats it by a wide margin. I understand that we are talking music here. Still, a totally industrial looking equipment in the living room? I shudder.
On the practical side, would this not be too big in the room that the OP has (15x11)?

 

[saikat]

Hearing about blumenhofers for the first time (pardon my ignorance), I looked up these. Man, are they ugly! This is the worst looking speaker I have seen (in pictures that is) - the worst I have seen so far have been Wilson Audio speakers and this one beats it by a wide margin. I understand that we are talking music here. Still, a totally industrial looking equipment in the living room? I shudder.
On the practical side, would this not be too big in the room that the OP has (15x11)?

Ok, i dont know which speaker you saw (the clara, FS1, FS3 maybe)? The FS 4.2 (Genuin FS 4.2: die „Kleinste“ Standbox in unserer Genuin-Serie) and Fun 17 (Fun 17: Vollbereich-Hornlautsprecher in kompakter Bauweise) which are available for demo here look beautiful to me.

About the size of the room, i think the FS 4.2 requires 10 sq. m of (recommended) space while the room in question is around 1.5 times the minimum. The Fun 17 requires 12 sq. m.

 

[square_wave]

Hearing about blumenhofers for the first time (pardon my ignorance), I looked up these. Man, are they ugly! This is the worst looking speaker I have seen (in pictures that is) - the worst I have seen so far have been Wilson Audio speakers and this one beats it by a wide margin. I understand that we are talking music here. Still, a totally industrial looking equipment in the living room? I shudder.
On the practical side, would this not be too big in the room that the OP has (15x11)?

I think you had a look at their very large horn models. Yes they look like real horn speakers. They are for folks who are seriousely into horns. They wouldn't like it any other way

The smaller models look far better. How does this one look. See below.

 

[Dr.Bass]

The look gorgeous to me. Amazing woodmanship.
The size of the speaker is not at all big. They may look like but they are pretty compact when you look at it physically.

 

[captrajesh]

@captrajesh
Recently I had the experience of listening to a fairly expensive set up at someones place.The owner had spent a fair amount of time/money putting his system together.From the very first look/note I did not like what I was seeing and hearing.The overall sound was bright and abrasive.It lacked body and weight.The twin towers seemed to be weapons targetting my eardrums!After 10 minutes of shrill,screaming guitars and hammering drums I had heard ENOUGH and merely wanted to get away without seeming rude.Finally mumbled 'Pretty Good',before gently turning down the volume and changing the topic.The owner meanwhile waxed eloquent about how,thorough research and a great ear for music had enabled him to assemble a fantastic system!

I can empathise with you Ajay and would've done the same thing that you did.

It would be rude to visit someone and tell on their face that the system sounds like s**t and can be very well equated with telling the host that the drinks / food served are bad.

The context is different here isn't it? We are talking about a certain speaker and the OP (even others) are looking towards opinions and hence I feel the opinions should be honest and absolutely true. You may agree with me or not but that is what I feel.

 

[pratimbayal]

Would any one suggest about Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock -BE 718 combo ( am not going in to speaker arguement ) . These Monoblocks are quite VFM to me ( with very limited knowledge) and heard that Odyssey Monoblocks performs much better . Forum member Ram is quite happy with Khartago Monoblock with Minidancer 1 ( though with shindo pre ) .

Regards

 

[square_wave]

I will definitely like to listen to Blumenhofers. I may get a chance this week end. But square_wave, will they not be a bit overkill for my small room? They are floor standers and has big enclosure compared to a BS. Also, can they be well driven by my Leben 15 WPC amp? As far as I know, the Genuine 4.2 has 90 db at 8 ohm sensitivity. I may not get these clarification even after listening to them in Jochen's place. His room is quite big compared to mine and he will drive it with Einstein hybrid amp with 60 WPC power. Any pointer?

@Amit,

The Einstein at 60watts was driving the speakers very well. We never went beyond 12 o clock position. The Einstein amp gain is designed in such a way that the vol control goes all the way to the end and yet plays clean. I will let you know if the Leben will work with the speaker soon.

 

[square_wave]

I am intrigued square - what is the pricing?
Cheers
Sid

Hi Sid,

Genuin 4.2 - around 2 lakhs.

Fun 17 - around 2.75 lakhs.

These are indicative. Please get in touch with Jochen for exact pricing.

 

[square_wave]

Would any one suggest about Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblock -BE 718 combo ( am not going in to speaker arguement ) . These Monoblocks are quite VFM to me ( with very limited knowledge) and heard that Odyssey Monoblocks performs much better . Forum member Ram is quite happy with Khartago Monoblock with Minidancer 1 ( though with shindo pre ) .

Regards

The monoblocks will drive the ushers very well. In fact extremely well.

 

[malvai]

Pratim if you're happy with your speakers, you should definitely change your amp!

I feel, you bought your speakers because you like the sonic signature... Now the whole point is to find you something that will drive the said speakers to their full potential.

I know how hard this can be... So, best of luck!

 

[himadri]

Hi
Just my 2 cents.As speaker sensitivity and solid bass is an issue and considering that the ayon/leben pedigree is stronger than the usher, the definitive technology mythos sts can be an option(hi sensitivity and internal amps for bass).The Wes Phillips stereophile review of sts refers to the cayin-sts sound and also the be718 and is quite favourable , so amit check it out .Dont bother for room size as my deftech bipolars have no issues in my 12x14 room.
cheers
himadri

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Hi
Just my 2 cents.As speaker sensitivity and solid bass is an issue and considering that the ayon/leben pedigree is stronger than the usher, the definitive technology mythos sts can be an option(hi sensitivity and internal amps for bass).The Wes Phillips stereophile review of sts refers to the cayin-sts sound and also the be718 and is quite favourable , so amit check it out .Dont bother for room size as my deftech bipolars have no issues in my 12x14 room.
cheers
himadri

Thanks Himadri, is there any dealer of Definitive technology at Bangalore. As I am coming to Bangalore this weekend, I may like to audition.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Viren, Amit and Kamal were over a fortnight ago and we heard the Be718s (US crossover) driven by Bel Canto Ref1000 MkI (500 wpc @ 8ohms) monoblocks. My CD player has a volume control and is plugged directly into the Bel Canto. I like the sound but for CDs recorded at a low volume level I feel the need to turn up the CDP volume beyond 50%. We listened to this setup for while and then Viren added his tube preamp to the mix, and what a difference that made. The sound was fuller, bass tighter, and speakers sang. The Bel Canto has enough power, but it needed a preamp - the passive volume control on CDP is good for many CDs but not all.

Amit, I forgot to mention that day that I have a pair of Proac Response 1SC which we can try out with the same setup and compare with the 718s. Come over sometime and let's hear the difference.

Thanks Soumen, I will definitely like to listen to Proac Response 1SC and this time I like to pair with my Leben. I may carry Leben to your place on any suitable weekend. It would be always good, if Kamal, Viren and Ashoke also join like we met earlier. I will contact you after returning from Bangalore.

 

[square_wave]

From what I hear, the blumenhofers being 90db/8 ohms with a pretty benign impedence curve should work with the Leben. Further there is this extra impedance correction module available
http://www.blumenhofer-acoustics.de/Lautsprecher/Optionen/Optionen.html
This makes the work for a low powered tube amp much easier when the impedance curve is flat.

See the impedance curve:
http://www.blumenhofer-acoustics.de/Lautsprecher/Optionen/Impedanzkorrektur.html

- Green = without impedance correction
- Orange = with impedance correction at cross-over frequencies (comes with all speakers except FS4.2)
- Blue = bassimpedance correction in low position
- Violet = bassimpedance correction in medium position
- Yellow = bassimpedance correction in high position

 

[himadri]

amit , presuming you are in noida, you can demo the mythos sts in delhi itself.contact manoj hora of mn corporation, mb 09899400800.if he has the sts on demo,do carry the ayon/leben (dont rely on their stock source/amplifiers) and have a listen. who knows you might be really surprised.
cheers
himadri

 

[gobble]

Speaker sensitivity by itself is the wrong thing to look at. One needs to look at impedance curve and phase angle along the frequency curve. There will be frequencies at which the phase angle dips to negative on the y axis. These are the frequency spots which where an amplifier will struggle to deliver if it cannot supply increased current demand resulting from phase angle. For a valve amp you need a speaker driver that has a phase angle that is positive all along - because valve gear is voltage driven and they cannot supply the current demands required of such difficult loads. A solid state that can deliver the required current will perform better with drivers that have negative phase angles - Provided current limiting circuitry does not limit the draw.

Case in point - I jumped from 86db to 94db drivers. There is little difference in how the amp behaves - it still sounds its best only at 9O'Clock and above.

So if you want to find a speaker that will work well with a valve amp, check the phase angle information and impedance - if the manufacturer publishes those specs i.e.

HTH

 

[ajay124]

Speaker sensitivity by itself is the wrong thing to look at. One needs to look at impedance curve and phase angle along the frequency curve. There will be frequencies at which the phase angle dips to negative on the y axis. These are the frequency spots which where an amplifier will struggle to deliver if it cannot supply increased current demand resulting from phase angle. For a valve amp you need a speaker driver that has a phase angle that is positive all along - because valve gear is voltage driven and they cannot supply the current demands required of such difficult loads. A solid state that can deliver the required current will perform better with drivers that have negative phase angles - Provided current limiting circuitry does not limit the draw.

Case in point - I jumped from 86db to 94db drivers. There is little difference in how the amp behaves - it still sounds its best only at 9O'Clock and above.

So if you want to find a speaker that will work well with a valve amp, check the phase angle information and impedance - if the manufacturer publishes those specs i.e.

HTH

Measurements specs can be misleading not only because of marketing hype, but also because manufacturers do those measurements in anechoic chambers where as the response in a 'normal' room would be completely different manner.Our listening room is an integral part of our music system which is why the final results good/bad are only revealed gradually after we have paid for everything:sad:

 

[sidvee]

Measurements specs can be misleading not only because of marketing hype, but also because manufacturers do those measurements in anechoic chambers where as the response in a 'normal' room would be completely different manner.Our listening room is an integral part of our music system which is why the final results good/bad are only revealed gradually after we have paid for everything:sad:

I agree with you ajay124, measurements of speakers are only a guideline - proof of the pudding lies in actually listening in your room.
Cheers
Sid