Which idler turntable to look at

[prem]

In a year or two i might want to experience an idler drive. Wanted to know if anyone has heard the EMT 930? I am considering an EMT 930 table with the 929 arm, TSD 15 cartridge and 139st phono. The other options is Nantais reference Lenco. No clue what arm, cartridge and phono to use with it. Any other suggestion is also most welcome.

 

[jls001]

Do look at Artisan Fidelity. They have rebuilt Garrard 301, 401, Lenco L75, Achates, and Thorens TD124. The workmanship is nothing less than artisanal. You can choose practically any arm and they will make the arm board and drill appropriate arm hole. They deal in Kuzma, Reed, Ortofon, & Graham arms.

Of course a Nantais Reference would be a great option, too.

OMA (Oswalds Mill Audio) is another option. They build great looking (Pennsylvania) slate plinths for various idler drives.

A wildcard could be the upcoming Thomas Schick TT. Not yet released, though.

You would need to also think of phono stage if you choose to go down this path. It's a minefield As is the choice of cartridge

 

[prem]

Thanks jls001. Thomas Schick coming out with a table is news to me. I looked at Artisan Fidelity. They make great looking tables. Could not get much info on how they sound though? Steve Dobbins Garrards and PTP idler also seems interesting. Are the OMAs horribly expensive like their speakers?

 

[reubensm]

I heard the Thomas Schick tonearm at Mr. Kuruvila's last weekend on a PTP based L75, it sounded brilliant, the best I've ever heard, until he turned on the LP12. That Linn Sondek turntable simply blew it away.

 

[prem]

Thanks reubensm for the feedback. The LP 12 set up properly does sound wonderful.

 

[Hiten]

VPI Super Scoutmaster

TT Weights Gem

Super Rare : SEIKO Epson. ? 2000
Regards.

 

[prem]

Hi Hiten

Nice to see your post. How have you been? Isnt VPI Super Scoutmaster a belt driven table?

 

[sachu888]

Thomas Chick, is coming up with his idler drive TT. I think it is based on Commonwealth TT. Our FM and friend Analogadikt has meet him and seen that TT in recent Lenco heaven meet at Beauvechain, Belgium.

Regards
Sachin

 

[Hiten]

Hi Prem,
All fine here, Hope you are doing fine. VPI is quasi idler just like TD-124. Benefits of both the world. For sheer craftsmanship EMT idler wins hands down.
Regards.

 

[Hiten]

Thomas Chick, is coming up with his idler drive TT. I think it is based on Commonwealth TT. Our FM and friend Analogadikt has meet him and seen that TT in recent Lenco heaven meet at Beauvechain, Belgium.

Regards
Sachin

Commonwealth reminds me of an Australian co., which had same named fine quality turntable.
Regards.

 

[Hiten]

One more which I like very much. Sugden Craftsman. Sorry for repeating but I did mentioned it in some earliar post. Center bearing is nylon only three points touches the spindle, can be adjusted if there is wear, damps the noise. Highly innovative thinking goes in to this turntable.
Regards

 

[prem]

I believe Frank Schroder prefers his Commonwealth table to his EMT. Do not know what EMT he has

 

[jls001]

Comammonwealth reminds me of an australian co. which had same named fine quality turntable.
Regards.

That's the same Commonwealth from down under.

 

[soulforged]

Apologies in advance for going a bit off topic and the sacrilege I am about to commit...

I haven't heard too many idler drives but I understand they sound the best which makes me wonder - if idler drives are the holy grail of turntables why aren't more of them around? With new tech and manuf abilities, more and more companies should find it feasible to make them??? Which brings me to another point - With newer tech and better materials available today, won't the modern day turntables be as accurate, if not better then these legends of yore? Am I missing the woods for the trees???

 

[prem]

Hi soulforged

My guess is its very expensive to manufacture them in limited quantities. VPI has recently introduced a Direct Drive table. Just the table costs USD 29000. Add to this the tonearm, cartridge, phono and you are looking at USD 40000 +. My EMT with everything, including phono, set me back by USD 6000. I have not heard the VPI but i cant imagine it being very superior to the EMT.

Even PTP takes apart a Lenco and rebuilds it. I would guess Schick might also be planning to do the same.

So i guess, vintage tables modded by experts can really work out very well. I believe if the EMT 930 were to be manufactured today, it would have to be priced upwards of USD 1 lakh.

 

[Hiten]

Apologies in advance for going a bit off topic and the sacrilege I am about to commit...

I haven't heard too many idler drives but I understand they sound the best which makes me wonder - if idler drives are the holy grail of turntables why aren't more of them around? With new tech and manuf abilities, more and more companies should find it feasible to make them??? Which brings me to another point - With newer tech and better materials available today, won't the modern day turntables be as accurate, if not better then these legends of yore? Am I missing the woods for the trees???

soulforged, this means war. Just kidding :lol:

You are right, Capabilities to manufacture with computers/ measurements will bring out good products. If you have noticed HiFi has moved from mass market to niche products catering to specific needs of consumers. If 50 yrs. old garrards are selling for a lakh and if consumer likes the implementation of idler drive. Why not ? By the way VPI has come out with direct drives too which cost around 18 lakhs.
Regards.

 

[Hiten]

oops cross posted with prem. (about vpi)
Regards

 

[soulforged]

soulforged, this means war. Just kidding :lol:

Hiten if this means I get to listen to some great TTs...bring it on!

I hear what Prem and you are saying and it echoes my thoughts. Initially, idlers were proabably more expensive to make and using top end materials and audio was a niche market (it still is I guess). My confusion is, why, if idlers are the way to go, did the companies not invest in trying to make it more viable economically to manufacture more of them? and why don't you see more companies trying to cash in on the idler resurgance one is seeing these days (maybe I ask this questions a couple of years too soon). I do think there's a bit of mindgame in elevating idlers to the pedestal they are on right now...exclusivity is it?

 

[arj]

Prem, if you want an idler and want it in the EMT range, either get nantais reference OR get a 301 by him.
Cream-white Garrard 301 Oil-Bearing | Turntables by Jean Nantais

If possible put a schroder Tonearm

 

[arj]

Hiten if this means I get to listen to some great TTs...bring it on!

I hear what Prem and you are saying and it echoes my thoughts. Initially, idlers were proabably more expensive to make and using top end materials and audio was a niche market (it still is I guess). My confusion is, why, if idlers are the way to go, did the companies not invest in trying to make it more viable economically to manufacture more of them? and why don't you see more companies trying to cash in on the idler resurgance one is seeing these days (maybe I ask this questions a couple of years too soon). I do think there's a bit of mindgame in elevating idlers to the pedestal they are on right now...exclusivity is it?

Lots of theories and stories.
The biggest problem with Idlers was Rumble/ and that was because of inadequate plinths and that was a mindset which led to Myths- similar to Horns being Shoutey or Tubes being Euphonic etc etc

Additionally Idlers need a heavy Platter and a powerful motor..add that to a heavy plinth and it gets tough. Further more they have to be designed well or it went bad. there are very few good idlers available today..am sure if you tried to manufacture just the Motor of a 301 it would make the cost prohibitive

..in the end it can become like a ported vs sealed box or tube vs SS debate ie in the end it is its implementation and design which is important and not whether its a idler/DD or zBelt..