Which idler turntable to look at

[kuruvilajacob]

Good Idler drive TTs like 301,401,L 75 give the table the extra torque which when combined with modifications by nantais and the like gives it the extra mileage over DIY s as they use special bearings and tweaks to give them something special. But then these really Hi end modified TTs will need equally good supporting systems to sound good. A very expensive proposition

 

[G401fan]

in the end it is its implementation and design which is important and not whether its a idler/DD or zBelt..

+1 to that.

There really isn't any idler resurgence - it's a niche market, for DIY types and for those who like to tweak things a bit with plinth variations. And of course they sound good if well set up, but so do well designed belt drives and direct drives, which are the majority of the new TTs being purchased today. The latter are largely plug'n'play which should appeal to the masses who don't want to be bothered by having to make minor adjustments. That said, a well set up idler can also be left alone, and played extensively for years with no more that a few drops of oil on the bearing and in the motor every six months or so. The difference is largely a matter of presentation, of a somewhat more forceful drive in the music that is the result of their high-torque motors. Similar motors in DD units also create a similar presentation, as in the SP 10 and SL 1200. The rest of the difference can be attributed to platter mass, damping, bearing quality, plinth design and other fun stuff that we analog nuts like to obsess over.

 

[Hiten]

Hiten if this means I get to listen to some great TTs...bring it on!

Soul,
its due to people like Prem that we get to hear top notch TTs.

I hear what Prem and you are saying and it echoes my thoughts. Initially, idlers were proabably more expensive to make and using top end materials and audio was a niche market (it still is I guess). My confusion is, why, if idlers are the way to go, did the companies not invest in trying to make it more viable economically to manufacture more of them? and why don't you see more companies trying to cash in on the idler resurgance one is seeing these days (maybe I ask this questions a couple of years too soon). I do think there's a bit of mindgame in elevating idlers to the pedestal they are on right now...exclusivity is it?

As for the rest of the points you have raised, it all boils down to personal taste and thinking what should be important. As we know all audio systems are a compromise. There may be demand but not much to mass market them and ultimately bring the cost down. Infact the short run of production makes them expensive. Linn are also back in production. I hope since Technics are back again they atleast give good DD (only motor unit) with good power supply built in. And affordable too
Regards.

 

[arj]

prem, dont play around with Kiddie stuff..get the best one ever

the Thorens prestige

here is a shootout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZ2qR2H_Rc

 

[thx911]

TT Weights Gem

Super Rare : SEIKO Epson. ? 2000
Regards.

These look so delicious & resemble so much like the internals of the modern day hard disk drive, i'm guessing the designers of the HDD could've have got their inspiration from these beauties... sorry for digressing, please ignore this post and move on...

 

[jls001]

Idlers have more torque. Direct drives also have lots of torque, but they're not 'free flowing' as they're usually constrained by negative feedback servo mechanism.

Lots of unfettered torque seems to give music a drive.

Modern belt drives try to achieve high torque through heavy platters. They succeed to an extent, but their speed control mechanism come in the way of unfettered torque. This one reason is why vintage idlers have such a fan following.

 

[anilva]

Prem,

I would second your original idea of a EMT 930 and if you can stretch to a EMT 927. Nothing better than them.

Cheers.

 

[prem]

Thanks Anilva. EMT 930 is definitely top of the list. If i could have afforded the 927, i would not have started this thread

 

[prem]

I know every technology has its own strengths and weaknesses. This thread has been started primarily to look at options for a good idler drive.

For the last 2 years i have been listening to a fully speced out EMT 938 with the 929 arm, TSD 15 cartridge and EMT phono with upgraded transformers. I am extremely happy with it.

I thought it was time i looked at idler and belt. Pl understand i am not looking at these shifts as upgrades. Its just that i want to experience these technologies also. Initially it would be idler for a couple of years, then a belt for a couple of years and then probably hybrids like Thorens and VPI Super Scoutmaster

 

[prem]

Arj, should i send my bank account number or should i just send you the Thorens Prestige sellers bank details?

 

[arj]

Arj, should i send my bank account number or should i just send you the Thorens Prestige sellers bank details?

[emoji3]
sending the turntable by itself will do just fine !!

 

[Hiten]

TransFi with advantage of linear tracking arm.
found it here.
TransFi
Small company. Dont know the guy or after sales service. So be careful.
Regards.

 

[prem]

Hi Hiten

The Transfi is one of the tables i had considered before i finalised the EMT. It uses a linear tracking arm. The set up is very cumbersome. Also dust levels in Mumbai make it difficult for a linear tracking arm to be set up. Hence dropped it.

 

[arj]

the problem with linear Arms is the Air pump..it makes a noise and takes space. a long radial tonearm, to a large extent reduces the error

The transfi is no doubt a good table.

 

[omishra]

the problem with linear Arms is the Air pump..it makes a noise and takes space. a long radial tonearm, to a large extent reduces the error

I have always remembered "indian kerosene stove" (minus fuel) in mind for constant air supply with some modification. Think on this.

I have successfully used it for spray painting over 100 SqFt area, and inflating front wheel of Tractor. Only mod was I combined bicycle pump to it default pump. Gone those Jugaad days.

 

[arj]

I have always remembered "indian kerosene stove" (minus fuel) in mind for constant air supply with some modification. Think on this.

I have successfully used it for spray painting over 100 SqFt area, and inflating front wheel of Tractor. Only mod was I combined bicycle pump to it default pump. Gone those Jugaad days.

:clapping: /Respect !
BTW how do you keep the pressure constant ?

 

[omishra]

:clapping: /Respect !
BTW how do you keep the pressure constant ?

IMO tank stores pressure beyond 50 PSI, getting small stream should not be problem. I never tried that. my use case it was somewhat constant till it drops. Pump again, go ahead. It worked for 45 min-1 hr painting job in single feeling. For me it was storage and pressure accumulation. Some valve/regulator could be there?

 

[Hiten]

Prem, yes dust is an issue and it looks like it will need maintenance.
Arj, I too like solid standard 2 axis tonearm. It kind of gives assurance of stability.

A little offtopic : Thales simplicity tonearm is good alternative for people looking for parallel tracking arm. Inspired from garrard 100, developed on DiyAudio. But it soon became expensive proposition when marketed (5.5 lakhs). Don't know why ?
Few years back I did a mock drawing to emulate 12 inch arm in my drawing software. It was with groove and stylus tip size drawn with specific effective length and I calculated the difference the stylus tip touches the groove's two side walls. It came to be around 0.0X mm. Don't remember the exact figure but for such a small difference parallel trackers are not worth I guess. I could be wrong though.
Regards.

 

[reubensm]

Prem, eagerly watching your decision. I have reached mid-way through my journey, the end of which, always has you for inspiration.

 

[prem]

Hi reubensm,

It will be the Dobbins Garrard 301 or the J. P Van Vliet fully speced out 930 with the 139st phono. I have dropped the Lenco since i feel the EMT and the Garrard 301 are better built machines to begin with. Since both these machines are quite expensive i am unlikely to be ever able to resell it. I will be kind of stuck with it. So thats a call i need to take.