Which Speakers are good for listening to Hard Rock/Metal???

[Sidharth Trehan]

Sidharth - they're 8,000 in the UK.
In India, if the 2,000 SCM-40 scales to Rs. 2.75 L by their distributor, then just multiply that by 4 and it should be Rs. 11 Lacs or so (maybe take away 1 Lac).

Too bassy/boomy ? They need a large room, lots of space to breathe, and will fully energize a good 20 x 25 Ft room nicely without a hint of boom. All depends on the sort of setup. Yet the low frequency will be deep, taut and the dynamics out of that tri-amped speaker system will kinda churn your stomach when listening levels are above 100++dB if you aren't used to this sort of tight, controlled yet highly accurate & truthful sound.

Must say its a damn highend bargain knowing you are getting a world-class speaker system with 6 amplifiers customized to power them. Just get a preamp & a source and you're ON... or get a one-box CDP will volume control and again you in the game...

Their SCM-50 SL are supposed to be their best-sellers at 6,300.

One of the most highly respected loudspeaker manufacturers in the world...

Brilliant it seems but phew! ....for now its me who needs some air to breathe.

Thanks for the revert Arup ji.


Edit:
P.S.
ATC amps come along these speakers? I just skipped that part of ur post.. This is a wow league and surely would make the sound grand ..would love to hear some grand piano notes on such speakers.. Shud be an experience.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

@decadent spectre,

When I said, using refined speakers for heavy metal, I did not mean your typical refined speaker with 5.5 inch mid bass units. I am sorry if it came across like that.

There are refined loudspeakers which are designed to work full range. Some may have 10 inch or bigger sized drivers for bass or may have multiple drivers doing bass duty.

The point is that you can get 115db + at listening position, 10-20 feet away with such speakers with very less distortion.

The cheap JBLs and cervin vegas will have TONS of distortion at such SPLS even at 20ft away.

BTW: I am not talking about the high end Jbls which are quite expensive. Moreover, they fall under the refined loudspeaker category.

When you say refined, to me it means speakers more on the audiophile side of things. I doubt people who class themselves as such would ever consider the name JBL even close to refined, even at its finest. But if you call the better JBLs refined then by all means I like refined speakers that can play loud. There are home companies that can play loud but I generally like the pro stuff, not the home audio segment which I feel falls short, even when it attempts to provide high SPL.

Interesting opinion... its like you being quite okay about buying a expensive painting like, say, Mona Lisa, and then deciding to give her a bigger smile because thats the way you prefer it... . But, would it still remain the artists vision? Or would it be marred by yours?

Dude, even preferring to put ketchup on your daily food is very different from insulting the chef by adding condiments to his (chefs) finely prepared delicacy...

You might wanna chew on this a bit....

Also, I listen to a lot of rock on what is being called 'refined' speakers / music systems... and it sounds outta the world. No compromises on the bass, treble etc. If you're in Mumbai, allow me to give you a super experience!

I would love to hear your speakers but I am not in Mumbai, appreciate the offer BTW no disrespect but I sincerely doubt that Monitor Audio RS8s will impress me.

I'm a logical person, not the kind of "artsy" guy who would spend money on art, ever. To me personally the Mona Lisa has no value, the only value it holds is for resale. To answer your question if I bought the Mona Lisa and I felt it needed a bigger smile I would do it in a heartbeat.

As for food I do love food, but I would add whatever I please to the dish if it makes it taste better to me. On that topic the only difference between adding something to a "new" dish that a chef just prepared for you and an old dish is that the chef who invented the old dish is likely not alive to see you "skewer his creation" and put tomato sauce on it.

I'm here to please me, not the chef, aren't we all here to please ourselves? We are pursuing this hobby, for what? Our own joy. While I understand some people may feel insulted by their work not being taken in the same light as they intended there are two issues here -

1) Why bother with anything if it doesn't please you? There's hardly a point forcibly listening to a sound you do not enjoy.

2) I very much doubt the original artist (whoever they are) will be insulted if you choose to EQ his song, in fact I'm betting (assuming he even knows you exist) he would not care in the least so long as you paid for his music.

At some point one must ask the question, is the creation there for the creators satisfaction, or for the public's use? In the case of music that has been commercially released the answer is for the public's use and hence it is my opinion that anyone may use any EQ or other modifications if it pleases them.

@Decadent_Spectre
Here's one refined loudspeaker example which can do heavy metal with a max spl of 115 db. You will not find the distortion you get in the cervin vegas and Jbl's.

The SCM 100SL Active

ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.

These will do almost any genre you throw at it

There are dozens of other such stellar examples.

It lists max SPL @ 115 db, I'm not sure at what frequency so we will assume 65-120Hz, but I do hope youll note the "+" in my previous post, secondly a speaker operating close to its maximum SPL capability will have increased distortion. I also assume the rating is for 1 meter, meaning two speakers would produce 115 + 6 = 121 - 9db (for 10 feet or about 3 meters, minus 6db for doubling of distance) = 112db at LP with relatively high distortion.

Please do correct me if my math and assumptions are incorrect. Could you also please list other examples, stuff like the ATC and like Emerald Physics etc, just curious what you have in mind. What do the ATCs cost here?

IMO A speaker needs to be 130db+ capable to give you excellent headroom with extremely low distortion and the option to play some serious SPL for those odd occasions, they will coast along at 115-120db. High end pro speakers fit the bill.

 

[square_wave]

Hi Decadent spectre,
Now I see where you are coming from. I was more or less in your shoes some 15 years back. Heavy metal and hard rock was all I used to listen to. And you like the live sound .

In fact if I were to live in a farm house in the outskirts of a city, I would definitely assemble one of these live sounding machines only for the heavy stuff
I completely see your point. Like audio engr pointed out, you would want to look at some pro stuff.

Or you may want to look at the Klipsch Cornwall 3 which are still being custom made for US residents. You could ship it to someone there and get it shipped down to India.
119 db
http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/cornwall-iii-overview/

The ATC was suggested for home entertainment for reasonably loud but comparatively refined sound at 105 plus db.
Sustained 115 db is very loud. Such speakers will again need the dynamic headroom for peaks. We are talking pro sound territory here.

 

[denom]

Hey Guys, fantastic gyaan & all, fantastic speakers they all seem to be & such, but for a small matter of concern (P R I C E ! ! !)...... Eleven LACS!!! ROFL.....hyeah:
I HAVE A COUPLE OF LACKS (mainly LACK OF MONEY)!!! Being off tangent to the question I asked in the 1st place but never the less, very informative, they all remain in my wish list as of now & in my dreams......
But I sure would like my whole neighbourhood to know that i'm playing METAL!!! Hahahahah, now that would be a sight!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
Mean while I shall dream of them, while making do with something fitting my budget...
Since i'm tied up with work for a couple of days, will have to postpone my auditions, but will do so ASAP. Mean while, keep them recommendations coming.....:licklips::licklips::licklips:

Thanks to all of you:clapping:

PS: Any of you guys ever noticed the huge JBL's @ Sai Baba's Shirdi???? Have always felt that they are wasted in their application over there Oh Sai Baba, pls forgive me!

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

@ Decadent_Spectre :

I think I get it what you want. You are looking at the wrong segment. You should be looking at the JBLpro lineup. Or Electro-Voice, Peavey, and so on.

For the kind of music and spls you demand, man! the entire neighborhood would thong your home...hyeah:

Here are some ideas for your listening tastes:

JBL SRX speaker with a 12" driver & horn-loaded compression driver (a pair) with JBL SRX Dual 15" subwoofer (or 18" subwoofer a pair).

Get yourself
(1) a nice DBX 2-way active crossover to setup & align correctly to your taste the JBL (Subs and the Tops)
(2) a 1/3-Octave Graphic/Parametric Eq and
(3) 2 x Crown or QSC amplifiers of at least 300watt or more.
(4) Add a source,
(5) Get a Mackie simple Mixer or even a Pioneer DJ Mixer - to control the setup

and pal, you're on the roll..... hyeah: A fully capable bi-amplified system READY for hard rock / metal whatsoever!!

I believe this WILL cut-in for you!! Try it. It can meet the headroom, dynamics, wall-to-wall sound you desire wherever you're listening space maybe...

Tip: keep some cash handy at home or in your pocket in case the un-invited local Municipal Councilor or the cops drop-by...

Cheers!!

P.S. Pls do call me to one of your gigs - wud love to take a peep...

You are most welcome anytime! If you'd like to drop by please PM me, of course I don't have JBLs right now but I have something else en route (which I believe will put those SRXs to shame, SQ wise with 133 db/speaker), which is why I'm selling the CVs. As for amps I do own a QSC RMX5050 I love this thing, its a tank.

I wasn't really looking at the home segment (I know what I want), I was just suggesting stuff to the OP because I know what kind of sound people into hard music want. Thanks for the suggestions though, if I didn't already know what I wanted then you would have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

About the cops, my room is soundproofed/acoustically treated, from 115db to 70-80db on the other side of the wall, measured with a RS SPL meter, C Weighted.

Hi Decadent spectre,
Now I see where you are coming from. I was more or less in your shoes some 15 years back. Heavy metal and hard rock was all I used to listen to. And you like the live sound .

In fact if I were to live in a farm house in the outskirts of a city, I would definitely assemble one of these live sounding machines only for the heavy stuff
I completely see your point. Like audio engr pointed out, you would want to look at some pro stuff.

Or you may want to look at the Klipsch Cornwall 3 which are still being custom made for US residents. You could ship it to someone there and get it shipped down to India.
119 db
Cornwall III Floorstanding Speaker - Cornwall III --- Floorstanding Loudspeaker - Klipsch Heritage Series - Overview

The ATC was suggested for home entertainment for reasonably loud but comparatively refined sound at 105 plus db.
Sustained 115 db is very loud. Such speakers will again need the dynamic headroom for peaks. We are talking pro sound territory here.

I agree, pro sound is the way to go for the harder stuff and HT, this is why I was insistent earlier about "refined" speakers not cutting it. If I ever switch to classical etc I might look into those ATCs But for now 115-130db @ 40-120Hz =

11 L not for the JBL SRX setup ... they're much, much cheaper! Heck, you won't even need 11 L to get you 'rollsroyce of PA spk systems' like MeyerSound [UPA-1P pair with USW-1P] or even a cheaper option like [UPJunior with UMS-1P] where each cabinets carries bi-amplified speakers with active crossovers. The entire MeyerSound speaker systems are a simple park, plug & play device - ready to be setup in just 'minutes'. Setting them up and aligning them is on the fly with Windows based "remote monitoring system" using SIM 3 audio analyzer in your laptop to give you seamless results in no time. Do the settings once for 1 speaker and its done for the entire rig!! You can even monitor heatsink temp of the in-built amps in the speakers, their power levels and tons of data.

Yes - on the pure audiophile front, 11 L will get you ATCs.

Where can one hear Meyer installs? I would love to hear some but I've never been entirely sure they are worth the money. As with *everything* there are diminishing returns (if any at all) on the investment after a certain price point. There's a lot one can do with 11 L, including some awesome DIY options, IB is one if you have the space.

I can just imagine 16 x 18" drivers IB in 1000 cubic feet

I also feel certain other companies will offer better sound than Meyer, most likely for less. This is just an estimation however.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Hey Guys, fantastic gyaan & all, fantastic speakers they all seem to be & such, but for a small matter of concern (P R I C E ! ! !)...... Eleven LACS!!! ROFL.....hyeah:
I HAVE A COUPLE OF LACKS (mainly LACK OF MONEY)!!! Being off tangent to the question I asked in the 1st place but never the less, very informative, they all remain in my wish list as of now & in my dreams......
But I sure would like my whole neighbourhood to know that i'm playing METAL!!! Hahahahah, now that would be a sight!:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:
Mean while I shall dream of them, while making do with something fitting my budget...
Since i'm tied up with work for a couple of days, will have to postpone my auditions, but will do so ASAP. Mean while, keep them recommendations coming.....:licklips::licklips::licklips:

Thanks to all of you:clapping:

PS: Any of you guys ever noticed the huge JBL's @ Sai Baba's Shirdi???? Have always felt that they are wasted in their application over there Oh Sai Baba, pls forgive me!

These? -

JBL :: Product

As big as they get.

 

[psychotropic]

Reynolds in Bangalore has Meyersound. Most big rock gigs in Bangalore use Reynolds's meyersound setup. It doesn't always sound great of course, since it depends on a whole host of factors, but once nicely tweaked and with a good band playing, it sounds lovely!

You are most welcome anytime! If you'd like to drop by please PM me, of course I don't have JBLs right now but I have something else en route (which I believe will put those SRXs to shame, SQ wise with 133 db/speaker), which is why I'm selling the CVs. As for amps I do own a QSC RMX5050 I love this thing, its a tank.

I wasn't really looking at the home segment (I know what I want), I was just suggesting stuff to the OP because I know what kind of sound people into hard music want. Thanks for the suggestions though, if I didn't already know what I wanted then you would have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

About the cops, my room is soundproofed/acoustically treated, from 115db to 70-80db on the other side of the wall, measured with a RS SPL meter, C Weighted.



I agree, pro sound is the way to go for the harder stuff and HT, this is why I was insistent earlier about "refined" speakers not cutting it. If I ever switch to classical etc I might look into those ATCs But for now 115-130db @ 40-120Hz =



Where can one hear Meyer installs? I would love to hear some but I've never been entirely sure they are worth the money. As with *everything* there are diminishing returns (if any at all) on the investment after a certain price point. There's a lot one can do with 11 L, including some awesome DIY options, IB is one if you have the space.

I can just imagine 16 x 18" drivers IB in 1000 cubic feet

I also feel certain other companies will offer better sound than Meyer, most likely for less. This is just an estimation however.

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Arup, did you listen to these JBL's?

JBL everest dd66000 - Google Search


Regards
Rajiv

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

@ Decadent_Spectre:

Its apparent from your post that you seem to know what you want - yet you are short of spelling it out. Hence, you don't need advise, gyan or a single minute of our efforts! Good luck & next time there's a rock show in Bangalore, you'll see the MeyerSound.

regards!

I never asked for advice,gyan or minutes of your effort, just trying to help out someone with a taste somewhat similar to mine, it almost sounds like your mocking me

Curiously are you an audio engineer by profession?

Reynolds in Bangalore has Meyersound. Most big rock gigs in Bangalore use Reynolds's meyersound setup. It doesn't always sound great of course, since it depends on a whole host of factors, but once nicely tweaked and with a good band playing, it sounds lovely!

What stuff do they have exactly? And whats the local price?

 

[Rajiv]

The SCM 100SL Active

ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.

Hi,

A friend has recently upgraded to the ATC SCM 100SL from his previous ATC SCM20/Krell 300i set up.

He now has a McIntosh C46/ATC SCM100 Active/Denon DCD-1650SE SACD player.He has a DEQX room correction equaliser but am not sure if he has hooked it up to this set up.

I have not been over to listen to the system yet,am planning to go over soon.Others who have heard the system say that it is sounding great.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[denom]

Hi,

A friend has recently upgraded to the ATC SCM 100SL from his previous ATC SCM20/Krell 300i set up.

He now has a McIntosh C46/ATC SCM100 Active/Denon DCD-1650SE SACD player.He has a DEQX room correction equaliser but am not sure if he has hooked it up to this set up.

I have not been over to listen to the system yet,am planning to go over soon.Others who have heard the system say that it is sounding great.

Regards
Rajiv

Wow, them ATC SCM 100 SL's ROCK!!! :yahoo: 68 kgs!!! :licklips: Finding their website was not easy.... Apparently 1 dealer in India (Chennai), wonder what they cost!

@ Rajiv, can you please ask your friend the cost!!! ( Am sure it will be be exorbitant!):sad:

 

[Rajiv]

Hi Arup,

You know these guys.:clapping::clapping:

I read about their systems on reveiw33 and correspond with a few on the hktube yahoo groups.It amazes me that the lengths these guys go to to build their systems.

Have you heard the set up in Vietnam? The one with the 30 inch woofer with the horn built into the wall? This person seems to have the biggest collection of the Reference Thorens Turntables.Kondo amps,Accuphase crossovers that system must cost quite a bit.

I can see MBL's,JBL Everest 55000 and the Kef LS3/5A with AB1 subwoofer in one picture this person seems to have speakers of all types.

The JBL4350 with the big slant lenses look awesome.

How do you like the REYAUDIO speakers?Those TAD woofers are supposed to be based on the design of the Altec 515.I would love to hear the TAD compression drivers with their beryllium dias.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Rajiv]

@ Rajiv, can you please ask your friend the cost!!! ( Am sure it will be be exorbitant!)

Hi,

Denom,my friend did not buy anything locally.He bought them from the US and had it all shipped over.

You are right it cost a pretty penny.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Rajiv]

@ Rajiv :

I was in HK/China from mid-2007 to mid-2008 with IAG hence checked out most of the stalwarts of that Forum and since then have been great pals. They're all very, very helpful people and what fun we had and have when we meet incl exotic cameras and food amongst hi-end audio...

You see Rajiv, these guys are so experienced that they manage to totally tame and tune-in every piece of component to work around them in the room. hence - on the whole, the experience is jaw dropping and some of them quite surrealistic too!

About the cost, its a shame to talk money matters with them since apart from all their audio gear, they own yachts, multiple exotic homes etc in the HK island and Discovery Bay so no point!

With HK's cost of living & property pricing, these guys are into building special rooms of very generous sizes so you can imagine...

So Rajiv - this is why I couldn't hold my temptation but to share these pics here and its so nice to know you've been following them... must introduce you to them over email...

regards!

Hi,

You are truly lucky to have heard so many different systems.I can only dream of listening to these systems let alone owning them.

Arup,you are right,these guys are very helpful.The little knowledge I picked up on getting the Vintage Tannoys and Altecs to work in my small listening space is from these forums.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[marsilians]

@Decadent_Spectre
Here's one refined loudspeaker example which can do heavy metal with a max spl of 115 db. You will not find the distortion you get in the cervin vegas and Jbl's.

The SCM 100SL Active

ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.

These will do almost any genre you throw at it

There are dozens of other such stellar examples.

I have heard these speakers only once before but from what I have noted down here are a few watchouts.

You have to be very careful when considering these speakers. They are fantastic sounding for almost all genres. HOWEVER, these are some of the most unforgiving speakers - so for rock & metal if the recordings are crappy (a good % are) then they sound like absolute crap. They reproduce very accurately esp. as you move up the chain.

Secondly they need absolute max power to sound well. The more the power they will sound that much better. Min 300W monoblocks are a worthwhile consideration

Finally, placement. Make sure your room is decently sized when considering these. They need some space and ideal spacing is about 10 - 12 ft apart and 2-3 ft away from the walls.

 

[marsilians]

These? -

JBL :: Product

As big as they get.

Just a pointer to all the folks who are looking into setting up HT or conversing re: the (de)merits of Dolby and THX. Notice that there is no mention of either of these technologies with these monsters of movie reproduction....

So dont get caught up with THX/Dolby marketing on the speakers or AVRs and such.

...end of my sunday yearly gyan!

 

[Rajiv]

there's another group of these sort of knowledgeable people but language is the barrier... they're in Japan. Only with an english speaking Jap friend, we converse or else, sign lang...

Frankly - I feel these guys are operating on another planet, way different from the Europeans & Americans!

Hi

Arup,the Japanese are in another league.I look at pictures of their set ups and am amazed.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[square_wave]

Hi,

A friend has recently upgraded to the ATC SCM 100SL from his previous ATC SCM20/Krell 300i set up.

He now has a McIntosh C46/ATC SCM100 Active/Denon DCD-1650SE SACD player.He has a DEQX room correction equaliser but am not sure if he has hooked it up to this set up.

I have not been over to listen to the system yet,am planning to go over soon.Others who have heard the system say that it is sounding great.

Regards
Rajiv

Hi Rajiv,

Do let us know what you think when had a listen to them.

 

[square_wave]

@Audioengr,

Those custom Jbl's look out of this world !

This reminds me of a conversation with another DIY friend who happen to know some of these guys.. The dedication these guys have for hifi is amazing. The attitude is truely Maverick !

Just AWESOME !

 

[grubyhalo]

Holy...! Impressive, to say the least.



Rajiv:

Please don't forget the Pink Floyd albums when you check the ATC's...