Thread 'Benefits of a forum like HFV: Make friends, listen and experience varied audio/video gear'
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...and-experience-varied-audio-video-gear.88171/
Why are people selling their Denafrips Ares 2 DACs
- Thread starter Amarendra
- Start date
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...and-experience-varied-audio-video-gear.88171/
Indumathiz
New Member
Sold the Pontus within a week for 200 dollars less. Did not like it at all. Just personal. No offence.
Jayant_S
Well-Known Member
I bought the Pontus DAC after auditioning at a forum members place and posted my experience here. Being able to compare gear and look beyond all the online reviews is invaluable
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/...ce-varied-audio-video-gear.88171/post-1013383
done extensive listening of denefrips pontus 2 and schiit bifrost2 in the hyderabad audio meet, the results are expected, bifrost is elected by great votes , few favours for pontus2.....not by myself.the group contains more than 15members,its not bashing the brand, but overhyped by few people , think money always brought the best. but in audio some times the lower priced ones$800 bifrst wins
That's useful insight.
It would also be great to know the rest of the variables at play while auditioning the two DACs such as genres of music listened to and of course, the rest of the chain
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Can you also explain the differences qualitatively and elaborately, please? Thank you.
I have used Schiit Yggdrasil (Version 1) and Denafrips Terminator (Version 1) in the same setup in my listening room.
For me, it was the Terminator which I liked the most.
Terminator had
- a much bigger soundstage; both in terms of width and depth.
- more focused stereo imaging with great separation.
- More extended bass response. In fact, this was the biggest difference I could sense.
- Highs were more airy and extended.
Terminator was simply more musical and engaging. But I had great time with the Yggy as well. It was my first R2R DAC.
Though I had sold off my Terminator and got a Marantz SA10, I was missing its sound and had to go back to Terminator again.
I have no experience with the likes of Venus, Pontus, Aries etc.. So cannot comment on them.
RaktimSkywalker
New Member
Guys please do not buy a Denafrips DAC. Audio equipment sound is relative. Therefore, when we comment on a DAC, we are actually commenting on our audio system.I am a proud owner of Denafrips Ares II, and yes I am looking to sell this unit.
Let me share some insights on why I have taken this decision and its a complicated answer to it.
Denafrips Ares II is smooth, Analoguish and neutralish has superb soundstage and imaging, in some songs instruments flow around you. It doesn't attack and punch like the delta-sigma DACs.
You might even find it lean if the chain isn't matching.
The last thing is exactly which is missing for me, it is sounding lean and I find the low end and bass reduced by quite a bit. Mostly because prior to this I was using SMSL SU9 which is warm. Adjusting to the new change took some time.
I have RPI with Volumio, WiiM Mini > Denafrips Ares II > Audiolab 6000A > QA3050i
Someother DAC's I own or heard with my system, SMSL SU9 (still using on my desktop setup) which is warmish, SMSL SU8S, Topping e30 & D50s, Audiolab 6000A's DAC (using it).
It comes down to taste, chain and genres one listen to.
Now I have multiple reasons why I am selling, moving out, Audiolab has a good DAC.
If it is not sold I might carry it, its does sound good.
What I feel is until unless one tries a new product in your chain in your room, you won't know how big change does it make in your listening. And do you like the change.
Happy to answer more questions
Anyway, I have a very modest system build around the Elac Navis ARB-51 active speakers. It sounds somewhat like a studio monitor which enables me to understand nuanced source differences. I don't have a preamp even; I control volume using HQPlayer.
When I first received the Elacs it sounded glorious even with a spare Topping D10, very warm, rich and sweet sounding. But after a few days of burn in the speakers opened up. Overtime it started behaving more like a studio monitor and made the flaws of the D10 obvious - a weak mid-range.
I changed the DAC to another cheap PC based DAC Creative SoundBlaster G6. The tonality was very good, just wanted a boost in the overall signal. So started looking for a good quality audiophile DAC with warm presentation and good mid-range body. And voila fell into the reviewer trap.
From first hookup I knew Pontus was not a good DAC. The only obvious difference from my previous cheap DACs is it has more byte and grip in the high frequencies, exactly opposite of what I expected. Nevertheless, in the region I come from, it is not easy to resale audiophile products especially personally imported products like the Pontus. So, I had to make it work.
Immediately I moved to the NOS mode and it sounded worse than anything I ever owned. The sound lacked resolution, soundstage was small, claustrophobic and there was significant high frequency roll-off, the worst part the sound was gritty and unrefined. Switch back to the oversampling mode some problems are gone, but the sound becomes V-shaped, too much bass and treble, very similar to Topping D10 a 100-dollar DAC.
The worse part of the Pontus is it has a DSP inside that does God knows what, reviews by GoldenSound on YouTube has more to say about it. To summarize with Pontus II, you will get -
1. A NOS mode that is a total abomination
2. A OS mode that sounds like any other Topping DAC
3. Sound is a little gritty, unrefined in any mode
I do not know how to call this better by any stretch of imagination. If you plug this device to any speaker, amplifier where there is any room for "aggressive expansion" the increased bass, treble and grittiness of Pontus will sound better. That is why I said at the beginning why a DAC’s sound is relative. BTW I do not know of any device in the world that will sound good in the NOS mode!
Some define Pontus as analog sounding; I feel like crying when I hear that. I have heard some good LPs and Cassette decks; standout quality of an analog system is it will never give you listening fatigue. But Pontus is very fatiguing after a while, especially if you have a transparent system like me. May be this is one of the reasons people feel the urge to upgrade.
After over a year of usage, Pontus have become even more open in the bass and treble region, the OS mode is now unlistenable, and NOS mode still have the same problems as stated before. But HQPlayer upsampling helps to some extent fix the problems of the NOS mode, but upsampling is something I never liked. But there is no other way than to stick to it now.
mallikreddyk
Member
Came across this thread as referred by a friend. The test equipmentThat's useful insight.
It would also be great to know the rest of the variables at play while auditioning the two DACs such as genres of music listened to and of course, the rest of the chain
1. Speakers -Sonus Faber Nova 3 (Also tried 8 Audio Rinjani )
2. Amp - McIntosh MA12000
3. Source - Laptop with Singxer DDC (also tried ustars R19, which was very close)
4. Tracks - Personally ripped CDs and Qobuz
5. Room Quality - Decently treated with all soft furniture, suffice to say it is a non-issue.
DUT:
1. Denafrips Pontus
2. Schiit Bifrost 2 ( the newer 2/64 version with TI chips)
3. Schiit gungnir
4. Chord Qutest
5. McIntosh built in DS DAC (Think it is AKM4498)
Hope this helps.
Thanks
Mallik
A product is only as good as the general price range it is selling at. In India, Denafrips is overpriced. Its a shame that we have to pay almost 40% extra for the Ares II in India.
Congratulations on a great pair of speakers. Is the Elac a completely active speaker i.e. does everything fed into it go through an AD/DA conversion (analog-to-digital, then back from digital to analog) or does it have a pure mode of sorts as well i.e. where the analog signal is completely pass through from the input to the amplification stage?
Great to know. Thanks.
What did you guts think about the comparison between the Chord Qutest and the Pontus?
I am finding it a little difficult to believe that the Pontus is that bad to be honest. It certainly seems that Denafrips DACs are proving to be polarizing in the community.
As for reviewer hype, reviewers are people like you and me, they have their biases, try one as much as they wish, it is nigh impossible to get beyond that in this life. So reviews are always to be taken with a pinch of salt. That is far from the conclusion that perhaps these reviews are influenced unethically. It is also is a distinct possibility for a fact but for all of them? I doubt it since these are almost very well regarded by all.
DACs, cables, speaker positions, rooms and streaming services, analyze each and every component as much as you wish but unless there is synergy in the setup, it all falls apart. This 'synergy' includes the listener's biases, music taste, environment and for a fact their stage in the journey.
Please understand I am not calling anyone out here. I have been following this thread keenly and am quite fascinated by the very varying opinions on Denafrips. I have not yet jumped on the bandwagon and bagged a Dena because I am not yet convinced. All the reviews (at least the ones that I rate as reliable) do state that this signature is not for everyone and the taste is very different to the delta sigma offerings.
Another contributing factor is I have been listening to two very good DACs, the RME and Chord Qutest and very recently the new Mojo, and I have not felt that I am missing out on much. In fact I am quite happy, a very hard thing to proclaim and attest if one is being honest in this audiophile business. Long may I remain happy!
My experience with the Pontus 2 has been quite different from what I’ve read here. It’s actually replaced a Sonnet Morpheus as my primary dac - the Pontus is a touch less resolving and warmer. The extra warmth is what I was looking for and the slight resolution drop was a compromise I was happy to make. To put the resolution comment in context, it was still more resolving than a Holo Spring l2 I owned for some time. All three dacs fed through an Iris DDC. The rest of my setup is Accuphase e450 / Harbeth c7.
I find digital preferences to be quite variable. To me, pretty much all Sabre based dacs are unlistenable beyond short demos. I know a lot of people have the diametric opposite reaction to the same DACs. Hence the assertion that preferences are variable. Digital is my favourite area of experimentation over the past decade and I’ve gotten to try out a fairly wide range of options over that time.
I find digital preferences to be quite variable. To me, pretty much all Sabre based dacs are unlistenable beyond short demos. I know a lot of people have the diametric opposite reaction to the same DACs. Hence the assertion that preferences are variable. Digital is my favourite area of experimentation over the past decade and I’ve gotten to try out a fairly wide range of options over that time.
How is Baltic 3 sound impression in comparison to other delta Sigma and R2R DACs ?
One of the refrains I get when I say this about ESS chip based DS DACs is ... what matters the most is the implementation. It doesn't matter whether it is Delta-Sigma, FPGA or R2R. What would you say to that?
Do some DS DACs sound as smooth as R2R without the glare, or do few R2R DACs sound like an oversampling DS DACs? This can get confusing. I personally find R2R to my liking and want to narrow down my choices to this category.
It is excellent, nicely fleshed out, warm sounding but revealing at the same time. IMO it is the best sounding DAC I have had in my system under $10k ($10k is the max I can afford anyways). Micro dynamic nuances are its forte (perhaps why I feel it is very revealing), and plucked stringed instruments sound simply sublime with excellent rendition of reverberation that makes it feel closer to live.
Cheers,
Sid
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I agree to a certain extent that implementation is important, but IME in the budget category of ESS based DAC's (say around $1.5k and below), I never liked any I heard, and I heard a few, they sounded thin bordering on clinical . Secondly again my experience with budget category r2r dacs is that they smother detail too much, so much so that nuances that I heard before with other dacs are now missing. Doesn't mean that there aren't some good DAC's of both examples out there, but generally that has been my experience. If I am buying in the budget range then my go to for chip dac's is AKM, wolfson etc. In fact when I bought my Lumin D2 recently, I had the option of getting the T2 for not much more(as it was being discontinued), but I preferred the D2 due to the wolfson chip.
Cheers,
Sid
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muralimmreddy
Well-Known Member
I fall under $1.5k DAC users category
ESS glare is quite off putting. In my first hifi purchase bought yamaha wxa-50 with typical ess glare and paired with shouty klipsch horn speakers. then later moved metrum amethyst r2r but it rolls off too much.At moment happily settled with gustard x26 pro, its ess based but its warm and analogue sounding yet resolving.
Always loved cirrus logic and wolfson chips in portable dap/dacs. Any recommendation on proper desktop DAC's with these chips.
new IFI neo stream seems to be another option.
Not done much research on desktop dac's with these chips Murali, but AKM chips seem to slowly coming back (after the fire issue), so those are worthwhile to look at.I fall under $1.5k DAC users category
At moment happily settled with gustard x26 pro, its ess based but its warm and analogue sounding yet resolving.
Always loved cirrus logic and wolfson chips in portable dap/dacs. Any recommendation on proper desktop DAC's with these chips.
new IFI neo stream seems to be another option.
Cheers,
Sid
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