Why are people selling their Denafrips Ares 2 DACs

[sidvee]

An excellent comparison between different DAC chips!

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2022/07/hi-res-thdn-vs-output-level.html Cheers, Sid

www.hifivision.com

Here is a link for some comparison of different DAC chips that I found very informative and perhaps not just my imagination at work.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[jmascreen]

I have doubts about denafrips quality, my pontus ii coaxial input gone kaput within 4 months also read some other folks did had issues with input connecters and the repair time by distributor is almost 2 months

 

[vinothkumar]

Some define Pontus as analog sounding;

Should be called a biggest lie in the audio industry

Unsure what to do with those youtube hypes.

 

[amit11]

I have doubts about denafrips quality, my pontus ii coaxial input gone kaput within 4 months also read some other folks did had issues with input connecters and the repair time by distributor is almost 2 months

This is sad.

Since many months, i was getting inclined to buy an R2R dac. Both Ares and Pontus are out of my budget...and rave reviews were giving me the progressive itch that i extend my budget ( by breaking FD, or buy using EMI) and then attain nirvana by listening to denafrips in my music system.

BUT no more after this post.... now my mind says, though the dacs may be good, there is still a surprise element of 'chinese maal'....

 

[Analogous]

This maybe a good time for current owners of the Denafrips DAC to chip in with their impressions and feedback, specifically those who are not planning to sell ?

I have not heard this DAC personally and am struggling to make sense of the various perspectives and opinions in this interesting discussion. I remind myself about the role of system matching and synergy and how critical it is for great audio reproduction. As in almost everything in life “context matters a lot”

I have bought and sold components including several DACs) that sounded very good in others’ setups (different rooms, amplifiers, speakers and music) but left me feeling unsatisfied in my set up.

 

[Jayant_S]

This thread is fascinating for how polarising Denafrips DACs are! Goes to show how deeply subjective and personal music appreciation is and how you just cannot trust reviews without listening in yourself.

I own the Pontus II and am one of the happy owners, not selling it anytime soon.
In my music chain, it replaced a Cambridge audio DacMagic DAC (dual Wolfson WM8740 based). My music listening is about a 70:30 split between LPs and CDs/SACDs. The only streaming I do is on my phone to sample the albums I like before buying physical media.

Pontus was an undoubted upgrade on my listening experience. Improved resolution, clearly tighter bass and more well defined highs. The biggest improvement I hear is the resolution remains excellent even at low volumes - something I've never heard before in my setup. I love the fact that I can have focused listening sessions later in the night at low volumes, without disturbing the household or compromising on my listening joy
The DAC has pulled me back to my CD collection and encouraged me to buy more CDs!

About the comments on Pontus being more "analog" in nature - I do quite some side by side listening to the same album on vinyl and CD and I feel my level of engagement with CD playback has markedly increased. Not yet as enjoyable as vinyl playback for sure.
My personal measure of "analog-ness" is listening fatigue. With vinyl, I could listen all day without any fatigue. Before the Pontus arrived, my limit was about 2 hours with the CD chain. Now I reach that point in about twice the time.
I hope this helps!
Anyone in Bangalore wanting to audition the Pontus, you can come over and listen at my place - drop me a DM

 

[mallikreddyk]

Great to know. Thanks.

What did you guts think about the comparison between the Chord Qutest and the Pontus?

My personal opinion.... not representing the group in the meet. Qutest is better.
Coming to Pontus, 3 instances I know of, where folks got different connector issues.
The Sound Quality vis-a-vis the competition, the known issues with connectors, I personally would stay away from it.

Regarding the comparison in the meet, There were about about 2-3 people (of 20+) in the group who liked the Pontus better, But majority agreed on Bifrost 2. The rest of the chain remained the same throughout. (except when we played Vinyl). The McIntosh MA12000 and Sonus Faber Nova3 is a good combination, and was a good base for comparison.

Thanks
Mallik

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

My 2 dumb cents please

I genuinely avoid mentioning kit in my posts, but I will explain how my audio chain has been put together, very slowly and peice by peice over the years. One cannot just change a dac or a preamp here, and expect to be pleased with the results.

I bought a esoteric dac many years back, it was brutally resolving, so resolving in fact it was unlistenable and I hated it. Since I sold my kidneys to get it, I was forced to use it. And my main listening is to hindi and telugu music from 80 to 90's. Horribly mixed and recorded with a very peaky treble.

So first step was to change my dac cabling to cardass golden reference XLR's. These are known for a smoothing effect, yet very musical. Next i changed my speaker cabling to transparent music plus biwires. These are just about the right balance in the transparent cabling range as per reviews I read, as the ultra and reference range were claimed to be too smooth. So with adding as much smoothing as I could with cabling, next step was amplification.

Next I changed my amplification from KT88 tubes in ultra linear mode to 845 Set's. This final nail in the coffin, enables me to blissfully enjoy the old hindi and telugu tracks, which are my staple diet, without the warts and all

But with my choice of cabling and amplification, my system is very very forgiving to the quality of source being played. But at the same time, it is not as brutally resolving as it can be on well recorded tracks , which I hardly ever play. . But I built my system to please me, and not to impress others. Now if someone brings a R2R dac here, which is also inherently smooth sounding, it will definitely put everyone to sleep. So to judge a denafrips dac in my system, where every peice of cable and amplification are working against it, is completely unfair in my books. The only future dacs that will work in my system are the chords and mola mola's. If I make one mistaken change here, then it will entitle changing everything else in the room.


So my dumb advise would be to look at it in respect of the entire chain it is being tried on. So some finding it too sleepy and laid back without treble extension, could actually be the result of the down stream chain. Just my 2 dumb cents

 

[drkrack]

So my dumb advise would be to look at it in respect of the entire chain it is being tried on. So some finding it too sleepy and laid back without treble extension, could actually be the result of the down stream chain. Just my 2 dumb cents

Ah you are spoiling all the fun man ; who has the time for a time consuming proper holistic approach, brand bashing is easy and fun. Let's do that instead.

 

[Miany]

So my dumb advise would be to look at it in respect of the entire chain it is being tried on. So some finding it too sleepy and laid back without treble extension, could actually be the result of the down stream chain. Just my 2 dumb cents

Spot on! Cannot agree more....

 

[mallikreddyk]

My 2 dumb cents please

I genuinely avoid mentioning kit in my posts, but I will explain how my audio chain has been put together, very slowly and peice by peice over the years. One cannot just change a dac or a preamp here, and expect to be pleased with the results.

I bought a esoteric dac many years back, it was brutally resolving, so resolving in fact it was unlistenable and I hated it. Since I sold my kidneys to get it, I was forced to use it. And my main listening is to hindi and telugu music from 80 to 90's. Horribly mixed and recorded with a very peaky treble.

So first step was to change my dac cabling to cardass golden reference XLR's. These are known for a smoothing effect, yet very musical. Next i changed my speaker cabling to transparent music plus biwires. These are just about the right balance in the transparent cabling range as per reviews I read, as the ultra and reference range were claimed to be too smooth. So with adding as much smoothing as I could with cabling, next step was amplification.

Next I changed my amplification from KT88 tubes in ultra linear mode to 845 Set's. This final nail in the coffin, enables me to blissfully enjoy the old hindi and telugu tracks, which are my staple diet, without the warts and all

But with my choice of cabling and amplification, my system is very very forgiving to the quality of source being played. But at the same time, it is not as brutally resolving as it can be on well recorded tracks , which I hardly ever play. . But I built my system to please me, and not to impress others. Now if someone brings a R2R dac here, which is also inherently smooth sounding, it will definitely put everyone to sleep. So to judge a denafrips dac in my system, where every peice of cable and amplification are working against it, is completely unfair in my books. The only future dacs that will work in my system are the chords and mola mola's. If I make one mistaken change here, then it will entitle changing everything else in the room.


So my dumb advise would be to look at it in respect of the entire chain it is being tried on. So some finding it too sleepy and laid back without treble extension, could actually be the result of the down stream chain. Just my 2 dumb cents

What you are saying is that, everything sounds better if you match it with something else. Then what is the point of reviews and all these review magazines and youtube reviews that people gush over. (Denafrips used these reviews/reviewers to gain a lot of traction in the first place)

The whole point of comparing DACs in a neutral setup is to find out the sound signature of each one.
The discussion should also entail reliability and service/support for good measure.

Some people may take it personally and think it is brand bashing because they are invested in a brand. But that is not the intent here.

Regarding brand bashing, of the many brands available only few get bad rep. ....food for thought.

Thanks
Mallik

 

[jmascreen]

The discussion should also entail reliability and service/support for good measure.

I am struggling with the service/support part..

 

[Fiftyfifty]

I'll be happy to let you bring your favourite DAC over and hear it side by side with the Denafrips Terminator in Goa. It's not even the T2 or Plus version, just the original T. You may like it, you may not, but let your ears decide.
As for service, Alvin Chee of Vinshine remains the most responsive audio distributor I have had the opportunity to ever meet. His responsiveness and service quality have continued well beyond the warranty period, and even after I've informed him about my plans to phase out the equipment purchased from him.

Cheers!

 

[Analogous]

What you are saying is that, everything sounds better if you match it with something else. Then what is the point of reviews and all these review magazines and youtube reviews that people gush over. (Denafrips used these reviews/reviewers to gain a lot of traction in the first place)

The whole point of comparing DACs in a neutral setup is to find out the sound signature of each one.
The discussion should also entail reliability and service/support for good measure.

Some people may take it personally and think it is brand bashing because they are invested in a brand. But that is not the intent here.

Regarding brand bashing, of the many brands available only few get bad rep. ....food for thought.

Thanks
Mallik

It is one of the “truths” that are so obvious that no one bothers to explain. I am sure you know this, but I thought it would be interesting to articulate it

It’s not possible to listen and subjectively evaluate the musical performance of a DAC or an amplifier or a speaker in isolation. (Note: I am not referring to single test notes or other objective testing)

We listen and hear the entire chain and try to understand and evaluate these in relation to each other in that particular room with recorded music from different sources. All of these influence the sound.

The better reviewers will detail the other equipment in the chain, the room size, treatment if any, albums and format used in the review. Some swap and compare similarly prized components to describe the differences.

 

[Miany]

I'll be happy to let you bring your favourite DAC over and hear it side by side with the Denafrips Terminator in Goa. It's not even the T2 or Plus version, just the original T. You may like it, you may not, but let your ears decide.
As for service, Alvin Chee of Vinshine remains the most responsive audio distributor I have had the opportunity to ever meet. His responsiveness and service quality have continued well beyond the warranty period, and even after I've informed him about my plans to phase out the equipment purchased from him.

Cheers!

Yes. I too can vouch for Alvin Chee... Great guy to deal with....

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

What you are saying is that, everything sounds better if you match it with something else. Then what is the point of reviews and all these review magazines and youtube reviews that people gush over. (Denafrips used these reviews/reviewers to gain a lot of traction in the first place)

The whole point of comparing DACs in a neutral setup is to find out the sound signature of each one.
The discussion should also entail reliability and service/support for good measure.

Some people may take it personally and think it is brand bashing because they are invested in a brand. But that is not the intent here.

Regarding brand bashing, of the many brands available only few get bad rep. ....food for thought.

Thanks
Mallik

Hi

I wasn't pointing out any thing . I ve got better things to do in life, than defend any brand of audio. I was just saying how comparing a denafrips in my room might not be the most ideal, irrespective of how many people were here to vote . Plus I never even owned a denafrips to date, so I don't have a horse in this race

The hyderabad get together was testing dacs with a macintosh Top of the line integrated and some nice sonus faber speakers. I do agree that it is a nice match for a lot of people, with a particular taste in music. Actually it will be very very close to my liking.

But since iam very familiar with the mcintosh sound, I can assure you it is mellow, and warm in the treble, perhaps even smooth sounding. And it so happens that SF has the same house sound. Now we add a smooth or analogish denafrips dac at the source, and the result will be as expected . It doesn't matter how many people preferred what, but the system was not neutral enough to give all dacs a even playing field in my opinion.

The above said, the main intent of my post, was to point out that, one needs to have a understanding of his own system first, before considering or auditioning stuff. Reviews can only point out some traits of the gear. It takes a lot of home work to find out if it is actually suitable for his system. Just my 2 cents

 

[krell]

Hi

I wasn't pointing out any thing . I ve got better things to do in life, than defend any brand of audio. I was just saying how comparing a denafrips in my room might not be the most ideal, irrespective of how many people were here to vote . Plus I never even owned a denafrips to date, so I don't have a horse in this race

The hyderabad get together was testing dacs with a macintosh Top of the line integrated and some nice sonus faber speakers. I do agree that it is a nice match for a lot of people, with a particular taste in music. Actually it will be very very close to my liking.

But since iam very familiar with the mcintosh sound, I can assure you it is mellow, and warm in the treble, perhaps even smooth sounding. And it so happens that SF has the same house sound. Now we add a smooth or analogish denafrips dac at the source, and the result will be as expected . It doesn't matter how many people preferred what, but the system was not neutral enough to give all dacs a even playing field in my opinion.

The above said, the main intent of my post, was to point out that, one needs to have a understanding of his own system first, before considering or auditioning stuff. Reviews can only point out some traits of the gear. It takes a lot of home work to find out if it is actually suitable for his system. Just my 2 cents

well said, its not 2 cents, its more than 2000cents

 

[mallikreddyk]

Hi

I wasn't pointing out any thing . I ve got better things to do in life, than defend any brand of audio. I was just saying how comparing a denafrips in my room might not be the most ideal, irrespective of how many people were here to vote . Plus I never even owned a denafrips to date, so I don't have a horse in this race

The hyderabad get together was testing dacs with a macintosh Top of the line integrated and some nice sonus faber speakers. I do agree that it is a nice match for a lot of people, with a particular taste in music. Actually it will be very very close to my liking.

But since iam very familiar with the mcintosh sound, I can assure you it is mellow, and warm in the treble, perhaps even smooth sounding. And it so happens that SF has the same house sound. Now we add a smooth or analogish denafrips dac at the source, and the result will be as expected . It doesn't matter how many people preferred what, but the system was not neutral enough to give all dacs a even playing field in my opinion.

The above said, the main intent of my post, was to point out that, one needs to have a understanding of his own system first, before considering or auditioning stuff. Reviews can only point out some traits of the gear. It takes a lot of home work to find out if it is actually suitable for his system. Just my 2 cents

Actually paired with Sonus, the Mcintosh I would say it is very neutral with a good weight to low and mid and an extended topend without much fatigue,
And all the DACs in the test except the chord and Mcintosh built in DAC were R2R. Infact, the denafrips was the closest sound to a DS-DAC.

I did mention all the equipment used. If anybody thinks it is irrelavent... they can disregard the posts.
but the fact remains that when all else was equal the Pontus did not score as well.... Each person can make of it what they will.
But atleast you can be assured ...unlike online reviewers nobody who was present had any incentive/disincentive to pick one over the other.

Thanks
Mallik

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Actually paired with Sonus, the Mcintosh I would say it is very neutral with a good weight to low and mid and an extended topend without much fatigue,
And all the DACs in the test except the chord and Mcintosh built in DAC were R2R. Infact, the denafrips was the closest sound to a DS-DAC.

I did mention all the equipment used. If anybody thinks it is irrelavent... they can disregard the posts.
but the fact remains that when all else was equal the Pontus did not score as well.... Each person can make of it what they will.
But atleast you can be assured ...unlike online reviewers nobody who was present had any incentive/disincentive to pick one over the other.

Thanks
Mallik

Fair point. Will agree with that

 

[coaltrain]

I have not heard this DAC personally and am struggling to make sense of the various perspectives and opinions in this interesting discussion

You’re welcome to drop by for a listen. There’s another fm who’s also keen for an audition and I’m trying to find some free time, perhaps over the weekend. Do drop me a pm if you’d like to join in.