Why Is My Subwoofer Not Hitting Hard - PB1000Pro

[DB1989]

Hi how are you? A couple of suggestions. First check the phase of the subwoofer. Have you set it to 0 degrees, 180 degrees? It could be your sub is out of phase with your mains. Whatever it is set to now try inverting it. So if it is 0 degrees try 180 degrees and if it is 180 degrees try 0 degrees.

I have attached a couple of screen shots. The first shows your room as best as we could emulate it with approximate measurements and speaker placements. Based on the current subwoofer position looks like you are losing almost 25db of gain closer to 80 hz.

I have attached a second room sim image and if you see the response is much smoother with the sub in exactly the same position. I inverted the phase in this simulation and added some absorption to the front and back walls. The best thing you can do to achieve this is add bass traps to all four corners. I understand this is a living room and aesthetically it may not be the best option but looks like you have some modal ringing issues and a null in your response probably due to the room mode at 80 hz.

Purchasing a basic calibration microphone and taking measurements of your room would really be able to help you identify the issues perfectly as one of the members mentioned in the previous post. Also instead of audyssey try and measure the distances from your speakers to your listening position manually with a tape measure and put those distances into the AVR for all speakers except for the subwoofer. Also even if you don't have a measurement microphone you can download an spl meter app on any smart phone or tablet and level match all your speakers and subwoofers to the same gain. Set your AVR volume to 75 db and play a test tone through the avr for each individual speaker. Hold the smart phone or tablet at the listening position roughly where your ears would be and ensure all speakers are playing at the same volume. Adjust the gains accordingly. Subwoofer gain can be matched to 10 db higher then your remaining speakers.

Thanks and I hope that helps you get better performance out of your sub.

Are you the "Avenue sound" from Mumbail/Navi Mumbai i.e. the distributor for Rythmik??

 

[Nagaraj S]

Hey, bro, glad your issue got fixed.
Great it is working for you.
What you have done now is what Atas @prateekatasniya would call near-field. I think you have nailed it.

But since you also say this, ask yourself:
1. How often do others watch movies in this room?
2. Where do they sit? (If only one person sits next to you, put the sub in the middle - meaning, to the right of the seat instead of the left, as it is now).


3. Do you really have the bandwidth to sit and work on two subs?
4. Please read up on the difficulties of bass management in small rooms.
5. THINK REALLY, REALLY HARD BEFORE YOU INVEST IN A SECOND SUB OR MORE.
6. Read up on what all you need to do to manage duals/multis.



Only when you have understood everything, go ahead.
By saying this, please let it be clear I mean no disrespect to proponents of dual/multi subs.
They do work.

But please do consider if it is for you.
Regards and wishing you the best.
K

Couldn’t agree more! In small rooms, less is more. More (bigger drivers, beefier amps, multiple subs etc) simply need bigger rooms to shine. Period. I would think hard before investing more on gear when my room is small. What’s the point if you can’t turn the dial all the way up to unleash all that power when the small room cannot take it. You might get a smoother bass with two subs, but I guess the law of diminishing returns would set in much earlier in this case.

 

[avenue_sound]

Are you the "Avenue sound" from Mumbail/Navi Mumbai i.e. the distributor for Rythmik??

Hi yes from Avenue Sound in Mumbai, Navi Mumbai. I would prefer not to comment on any brands because I think it would be unethical to come on this forum and promote any specific brands which we may sell. I think the forum has rules against that also. I hope you were able to get the sub sounding how you wanted it.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

More (bigger drivers, beefier amps, multiple subs etc) simply need bigger rooms to shine.

Not true. As long as the size of the sub doesn’t severely constrain placement to a terrible location for effective transfer of energy to the listening area, bigger drivers (more detail and greater extension) and beefier amps (headroom and greater SPL capability) are always welcome. As are multiple subs. Especially for small rooms.

What’s the point if you can’t turn the dial all the way up to unleash all that power when the small room cannot take it.

As above, you’re likely underestimating the importance of headroom.

You might get a smoother bass with two subs, but I guess the law of diminishing returns would set in much earlier in this case.

If one has flexibility with positioning of multiple subs and has the tools necessary for their integration, a more consistent response over a larger area of the room is a significant advantage. IMO, when it comes to bass reproduction, one is much more likely to hit the limits of one’s wallet before hitting the limits of audible gains.

 

[DB1989]

Hi yes from Avenue Sound in Mumbai, Navi Mumbai. I would prefer not to comment on any brands because I think it would be unethical to come on this forum and promote any specific brands which we may sell. I think the forum has rules against that also. I hope you were able to get the sub sounding how you wanted it.

Forget about specific brands, are you guys a legitimate business is what i want to know since nobody picks up phone calls on the numbers you've mentioned on your website.

Perhaps a little less time giving advice on HFV regarding unspecific brands/topics and a little more time attending to customers vis-a-vis the brands that you actually cater to?

 

[avenue_sound]

Forget about specific brands, are you guys a legitimate business is what i want to know since nobody picks up phone calls on the numbers you've mentioned on your website.

Perhaps a little less time giving advice on HFV regarding unspecific brands/topics and a little more time attending to customers vis-a-vis the brands that you actually cater to?

I'm really sorry to hear that you were not able to get through. Have you called the toll free number which is listed at the bottom of the website? Thanks

 

[Love4sound]

Forget about specific brands, are you guys a legitimate business is what i want to know since nobody picks up phone calls on the numbers you've mentioned on your website.

Perhaps a little less time giving advice on HFV regarding unspecific brands/topics and a little more time attending to customers vis-a-vis the brands that you actually cater to?

Worst part is even their own dealers complaint about them

 

[dr_rocket]

I think the thread is sidetracking here. Please focus on helping the OP in this thread. Avenue sound discussions can be done over PM or on a separate thread as deemed fit by the moderators.

 

[Nagaraj S]

Not true. As long as the size of the sub doesn’t severely constrain placement to a terrible location for effective transfer of energy to the listening area, bigger drivers (more detail and greater extension) and beefier amps (headroom and greater SPL capability) are always welcome. As are multiple subs. Especially for small rooms.



As above, you’re likely underestimating the importance of headroom.



If one has flexibility with positioning of multiple subs and has the tools necessary for their integration, a more consistent response over a larger area of the room is a significant advantage. IMO, when it comes to bass reproduction, one is much more likely to hit the limits of one’s wallet before hitting the limits of audible gains.

Thanks for the clarification- agree about the headroom. I had replaced the L&R of my AVR with the Parasound A21 (250 w/C), and the difference was remarkable. I am yet to see how far my gear would go at high volumes (17 x 10 feet is my room size, 8 inch floor standers, 15 inch sub). Having said this, would introducing an AV pre-processor improve the overall sound quality noticeably? I think it would; but not sure to what extent. I have never used an AV pre-processor before. I am thinking of picking up a used one, provided I get to find one.
Thanks.

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I had replaced the L&R of my AVR with the Parasound A21 (250 w/C), and the difference was remarkable.

Wonderful. Enjoy!

I am yet to see how far my gear would go at high volumes (17 x 10 feet is my room size, 8 inch floor standers, 15 inch sub).

Cool. There's a good chance you'll run into the limits of your room (if untreated) as you turn up the volume.

Having said this, would introducing an AV pre-processor improve the overall sound quality noticeably? I think it would; but not sure to what extent. I have never used an AV pre-processor before. I am thinking of picking up a used one, provided I get to find one.

IMO, the biggest difference between different brands of processors/AVR's is the room correction software. So, I don't believe there's going to be much of an audible effect between using the pre-outs of your AVR vs a dedicated pre-pro, if the room correction software in both units is the same.

 

[Nagaraj S]

Wonderful. Enjoy!



Cool. There's a good chance you'll run into the limits of your room (if untreated) as you turn up the volume.



IMO, the biggest difference between different brands of processors/AVR's is the room correction software. So, I don't believe there's going to be much of an audible effect between using the pre-outs of your AVR vs a dedicated pre-pro, if the room correction software in both units is the same.

Pardon my ignorance, but is the room correction software the only differentiator for a better sound? There are pre-processors that cost the price of a car, but have the same room correction software that a mid-level AVR does. Wouldn’t you think that the pre-processor is doing something more or different than the AVR? In this case, perhaps I am paying more for the pre-amp stage, and therefore expect better sound?

 

[liverpool_for_life]

Pardon my ignorance, but is the room correction software the only differentiator for a better sound?

I did say "the biggest", not the only.

There are pre-processors that cost the price of a car, but have the same room correction software that a mid-level AVR does. Wouldn’t you think that the pre-processor is doing something more or different than the AVR?

What differences do you think arise from using the pre-outs of an AVR vs using a dedicated pre-pro? For simplicity, assume the same manufacturer and similar class (identical features, only difference being in-built amplification vs not). If your answer is better parts and circuitry for the extra money will automatically translate to not just measured but actually audible differences, fair enough. Color me skeptical, though.

In this case, perhaps I am paying more for the pre-amp stage, and therefore expect better sound?

With the caveat above, we can expect all we want, but are the differences real, and more importantly, audible? My bet is no. As always, YMMV.

If you're talking about different classes of processors (Trinnov Altitude vs Anthem AVM 60 in my case), my subjective impression is that the Trinnov is comfortably ahead of the Anthem. And this is before room correction. I definitely wasn't expecting this, so it wasn't expectation bias. So, I'll grant that paying multiples of what I paid for my old audio processor has led to better sound for me.