n_sachin84
New Member
superb setup .congrats :clapping::licklips:
Yet another dedicated home theater build :)
- Thread starter john_k_antony
- Start date
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Sure Swami. Will do. I have few BluRays that are in 7.1.
I did 7.1 now as to future proof my build. I was initially planning to only wire for 7.1 and have only 5.1 now. Then by looking at the way electronics prices are going up and since I got a better discount since I was buying 4 pairs of speakers from ProFx, I just went for it
. I played some short demo clips and few of them are 5.1 and other are 7.1. I didn't find any day and night difference. I think 5.1 is more than enough. Other reason I got all 7 channel speakers now is that l wanted all my speakers to sound "alike". The best was was to choose the same speaker model and version from the same company. If I want to buy the surround back at a later time, I might not get the same speakers that timber match with my rest of the system. However there is another school of thought saying that you really DO NOT need to perfectly timbre match your surrounds. You just need to concentrate on the front L-C-Rs.
Again the effectiveness of the surround stage depends on the sound engineer who designed the sound for the movie
. A smart sound engineer can create a wonderful surround sound stage with just 5 channels. I have generally seen "overload" of surround sound in Indian movies, especially some of the latest Malayalam movies. These movies will not give you the "in the movie" experience. So if you watch lots of Indian movies, 5.1 way more than enough. I would recommend you to wire for 7.1 now and if budget is a constraint, add the rear back speakers later.
Thanks,
John.
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The source has to be 7.1 if you need true 7.1 experience. Very few titles come with it I suppose. Difference will not be day and night but as John said rightly, it depends on how it is mixed.
Follow this link to know which are the BD titles with Dolby 7.1 mixing:
Dolby Surround 7.1 Movies
Both DD and DTS 7.1 titles:
http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
Choose Audio 7.1 in filter
Normally, surround channels are used for less than 5% of the movie length so unless you concentrate on what sounds emanate from these extra two speakers on the sides, you will be fine with 5.1. But when a dedicated HT is built, it is wise to make it 7.2 compatible as a measure of future proofing.
BTW great work John.. So swiftly progressing. Is that the sub is kept in the centre? Are you sure it is the best place in your room? I prefer any of the corners for maximum benefits.
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john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Santy,
I tried the sub on the sides to start off with. And it was creating too much of bass in the room. When I kept in the center, it got tapered down and now its fine.
I think the 12" sub I got is too much for the room. The sub is kept at -10db level where all the other speakers are kept at 0db level in the AVR. Still the sub is very powerful. The volume on the sub is kept at 50%.
Thanks,
JOhn.
I tried the sub on the sides to start off with. And it was creating too much of bass in the room. When I kept in the center, it got tapered down and now its fine.
I think the 12" sub I got is too much for the room. The sub is kept at -10db level where all the other speakers are kept at 0db level in the AVR. Still the sub is very powerful
. The volume on the sub is kept at 50%.Thanks,
JOhn.
ravidharap
Active Member
Congratulations again
Sure Swami. Will do. I have few BluRays that are in 7.1.
I did 7.1 now as to future proof my build. I was initially planning to only wire for 7.1 and have only 5.1 now. Then by looking at the way electronics prices are going up and since I got a better discount since I was buying 4 pairs of speakers from ProFx, I just went for it
I played some short demo clips and few of them are 5.1 and other are 7.1. I didn't find any day and night difference. I think 5.1 is more than enough. Other reason I got all 7 channel speakers now is that l wanted all my speakers to sound "alike". The best was was to choose the same speaker model and version from the same company. If I want to buy the surround back at a later time, I might not get the same speakers that timber match with my rest of the system. However there is another school of thought saying that you really DO NOT need to perfectly timbre match your surrounds. You just need to concentrate on the front L-C-Rs.
Again the effectiveness of the surround stage depends on the sound engineer who designed the sound for the movie
I would recommend you to wire for 7.1 now and if budget is a constraint, add the rear back speakers later.
Thanks,
John.
Thanks for the details john & santy. Yes, Of course i too deeply abservered in my existing setup (Even it is a crapy computer seakers 5.1 setup) and found most of the movies are played on 60%-Center, 45%-left & right, 5% on rear speakers.
The rears are raising only during action scenes (or) the scenses mostly there is no dialog/vocal in it.
I think 5.1 in good enough for me. Thanks John.
koushik
Well-Known Member
That sums up to 110%
But, Based on my observation, We required a center should be more powerful than Left & Right.
That helps to make you feel, a person delevering a diag from center location of the screen should be louder than persons delivering dialog from left (or) Right. (OR) The power distribution will be handled by the AVR itself ?
Because, I feel the center is very weak, even it is a computer speakers all satellites are same size and power. (I think the room size and the overall power of your audio system will also play a critial role on this). (John: Q600c is the right pair for Q300 L/R)
John/Santy/Koushik: Your thoughts/experience on this ?
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
Not according to me. According to THX, all the front speakers L-C-R should be the SAME, and they should produce same SLP for a given pink noise. It is the sound engineer who decided what vocals and effects to come from which channel and at what volume levels to create a perfect sound stage that is needed for the current movie scene and more over what is requested by the movie director. Sound engineer is the one who choose and mixes the sound levels of the dialog and other effects from each channel. When he does that in a mixing studio, he mostly uses studio monitors that are identical as far as I know. I don't think they use anything special for center channel.
Again its a Myth that you need a speaker labelled as center channel is needed. If you research a bit, you will find that the typical center channel layout (MTM) will create a very narrow horizontal sound stage than speakers with drivers aligned vertically like a typical floor stander.
You just need any good speaker that has good frequency response from 60Hz-80Hz and above. Because in a typical HT setup, any frequency below 80Hz is take care by your Subwoofer.
I do have KEF iQ60c in my living room and when I tested the iQ60C with Q300 for center, I felt Q300 was delivering a better overall performance and was the perfect match for my L & R Q300s.
When I was using KEF iQ60c in my living room where there is no acoustic treatment, the quality of dialogs were very bad. Not clear, not legible and we always needed sub titles to understand the dialog. Then I increased the sound level for my center channel from AVR and the level from center channel increased making the overall sound stage to suffer. Also I still didn't get dialog clarity.
Now in my acoustically treated room, and with Q300 as center channel, the dialogs have become crystal clear and loud enough to easily understand and there is no more need for subtitles, except for movies of Stallion
. This is my theory and experience..
Thanks,
John.
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That sums up to 110%
Koushik,
I have added the additional 10% for KEF which will sound 10% more detailed than other brands in its class
.Swamy
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Not according to me. According to THX, all the front speakers L-C-R should be the SAME..............
...................
...................
This is my theory and experience..
Thanks,
John.
Thanks for the details on center channel. I agree with the mixing concepts.
My worry is, currently (I agree, i should not compare PC speakers and a local decoder [China make Rs.3500]) for most of the movie watching, i am allocating a dedicated person on volume control to increase the volume while dialog delivery and reduce the volume while surrond raises
. I have seen the same issue in one more thread also with Onkyo HT. (Its may be due untreated room also).I am planing to buy a decent HT soon, My worry is, this 'Volume' issue should not be continued.:sad
My assumption may be due to less powered center channel). That is why i have raised this concern. Any FM had past experience with the same issue (Volume) and then resolved could help me on this by sharing their experience.
Thanks,
Swamy
praveencshekhar
Member
Fantastic setup and congrats :clapping:, by far this is best setup I have come across :licklips:
Thanks for the details on center channel. I agree with the mixing concepts.
My worry is, currently (I agree, i should not compare PC speakers and a local decoder [China make Rs.3500]) for most of the movie watching, i am allocating a dedicated person on volume control to increase the volume while dialog delivery and reduce the volume while surrond raises
I am planing to buy a decent HT soon, My worry is, this 'Volume' issue should not be continued.:sad
Any FM had past experience with the same issue (Volume) and then resolved could help me on this by sharing their experience.
Thanks,
Swamy
Swamy,
Almost all the modern receivers have a setup mic included. That does the level and distance calibration. Receiver plays the test tone through each speaker and mic records the output. All the speakers should sound exactly after this.
Now, there may be some speakers very much close to room boundaries like Floorstanders in the corner, or subs in the corner which may cause booming. Moving those floorstanders out can actually help more.
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Thanks manoj. And also that pattern is varying according to source. Holywood movies are good, only some regional movies having that issues. (In that scenario, how AVR will work, It will adjust the volume to a preferred level, irrespective of variations between diffrent source/BD?)
As of now, i donot have any AVR, I am planing to buy a small 5.1 setup with AVR near diwali. Sure i will by the AVR with calibration setup.
As of now, i donot have any AVR, I am planing to buy a small 5.1 setup with AVR near diwali. Sure i will by the AVR with calibration setup.
koushik
Well-Known Member
Yes, indeed! It basically sends different test signals and adjust the volume, equalization etc. The end result is pretty good and for me, messing with it generally leads to another session of calibration with the mic
ravidharap
Active Member
It's weekend, enjoy your home theatre, pls post more pics!!!
john_k_antony
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, I don't think budget AVRs will intelligently bump up the center channel volume to match the other channels. The auto calibration in AVR will calibrate all the speaker levels based on the test tone generated by the auto calibration software and also based on the your room's frequency response. Once the calibration sets the individual speaker levels, I don't think it can auto adjust the levels based on different sources.
You are absolutely right on Indian movies surround sound. The sound engineer of the movie un-necessarily bumps up the volume of surround channels for no particular reason masking the sound of the main movie scene
.-John.
@Swamy:
Exactly as John said. As far as I understand, there is no pre-pro or receiver which can intelligently recognize the source and adjust levels.
The audio calibration ensures that - All speakers sound at same loudness (level calibration) and the sound arrives at the same time (distance calibration) at the listening position (where you kept the mic during calibration)
The source should have correct levels for all the channels. I have very rarely found sources that are bad. But majority if fine.
Hope this clarifies.
Exactly as John said. As far as I understand, there is no pre-pro or receiver which can intelligently recognize the source and adjust levels.
The audio calibration ensures that - All speakers sound at same loudness (level calibration) and the sound arrives at the same time (distance calibration) at the listening position (where you kept the mic during calibration)
The source should have correct levels for all the channels. I have very rarely found sources that are bad. But majority if fine.
Hope this clarifies.
koushik
Well-Known Member
I think that should not be done also, from the AVR point of view. AVR has already set the speakers to match each other according to your sitting position. Now why should AVR control how the material is intended to sound?
I mean, it is the intention of the sound/recording engineer to play that particular part of the scene LOUDLY, why should AVR poke nose into that decision of the movie makers. Isn't that logical?
Now it is the responsible of the engineers and movie making units to make sure it doesn't happens. It doesn't annoy movie watchers.
And from a completely different angle, this may also happen due to the resonance frequency of the drivers and if they are no Notch filter to counter that. At resonance frequency the drivers tends to sound very loud. It could be 10 dB or more at their resonance frequency and a notch filter is used to remove that spike.
Koushik,
Yes, I understand that AVR shouldn't do that. But sometimes normalization is good, like for nighttime viewing. Audyssey does that with their Dynamic Volume, it tries to bring everything in listening range, and that feature works well if you have to listen to low volumes. But it does take the dynamics in the audio out as everything will sound near same levels.
There may be some users who prefer that and would like to have that feature. It's better if they get the choice to buy such feature.
Yes, I understand that AVR shouldn't do that. But sometimes normalization is good, like for nighttime viewing. Audyssey does that with their Dynamic Volume, it tries to bring everything in listening range, and that feature works well if you have to listen to low volumes. But it does take the dynamics in the audio out as everything will sound near same levels.
There may be some users who prefer that and would like to have that feature. It's better if they get the choice to buy such feature.
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