Which Speakers are good for listening to Hard Rock/Metal???

[captrajesh]

Hi,

A friend has recently upgraded to the ATC SCM 100SL from his previous ATC SCM20/Krell 300i set up.

He now has a McIntosh C46/ATC SCM100 Active/Denon DCD-1650SE SACD player.He has a DEQX room correction equaliser but am not sure if he has hooked it up to this set up.

I have not been over to listen to the system yet,am planning to go over soon.Others who have heard the system say that it is sounding great.

Hi Rajiv,

Would you prefer some company

 

[rijuc]

Since I listen to this genre only, request the knowledgeable folks here to suggest good speakers to listen to this particular genre of music, based on which I will audition them. No surround sound/HT/Etc... speakers please.... just plain old fashioned floor/book shelf speakers....

i listen to a similar genre of music... the fact is that no combo of speakers and amps will actually give you the sound that any music is intended to produce...
they were recorded in studios and were finalised over studio monitors/headphones... and not to forget the mixer and eqs... something that we will probably never go for...
ive been using a sonodyne genie power pack for the last couple of years and they've worked just fine, needs a lot of tweaking though to hit the right balance as different albums have different mixes... recently ordered a pair of wharf 10.1 and norge 2060 as the are probably the most talked about combo in this forum and being in gangtok couldnt afford to audition any brand whatsoever...
what i would suggest is while going for the audition take the right albums with you... being a metal fan i'm sure you'll be having these-
kill em all: for the highs and high mids
justice for all: for their no mids!!
reload: for the low mids and lows
master of puppets: balanced
metallica recorded all these albums so differently!!
and for good overall mix try bands like opeth, porcupine tree, emperor... add a few with female vocals as well...
and you can also take along a few old black metal albums from mayhem, burzum etc as they were very poorly recorded and just check how they sound:lol:
and yeah... dont forget tweaking the knobs accordinglyhyeah:

 

[denom]

Wow, been a year since I first posted on this forum & through this thread I learnt so very much. Now a year down the line, wiser than before, I read all the posts on this thread & understand where each one who contributed to this thread was coming from (theory & experience wise). This surely was a correct baptism for me & the knowledge shared here has helped me to no end. I sincerely would like to thank all the good folks who posted here & showed me towards the light Pity that some of them are no longer active on the forum.

And yes, I've yet not got them speakers that I have wanted, mainly due to the shortage of disposable funds for them, but will surely get them in the future. Mean while my lust for demoing speakers continues & I truly enjoy doing so (at the expense of them hapless sales folks @ various dealer shops)

:beer::cheers::beer: to all my friends @ HFV :clapping:

 

[Anesthetized]

@Denom

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but could you let me know which brand/model of speakers you decided on finally?

I am pretty much in the same position now as you were when you first started this thread. I'm almost decided on Norge 2060 (budget constraints, cannot opt for any of the big name brands) and I'm looking for Bookshelf speakers to go with it (something around 20k INR). This setup is for a 12x12 room.

I listen to various genres of Rock and Metal. To give you an idea, PT, Floyd, Maiden, Metallica, Opeth, DT, Sabbath, KC, Death, Testament etc.

I auditioned a few speakers recently. Polk Audio TSx220, KEF C3, Heco (forgot the model), B&W (again, forgot the model, but it costs 45k) and Klipsch Synergy B20.
The KEF and Heco sounded quite awful when I played Death's Human and Sabbath's Paranoid albums. The sound was muddled and I could not really hear the different instruments/tones clearly.
The Polk was alright. With a flat EQ on the amp in the store, the performance was decent. But the sound seemed artificial and not really room filling.
The B&W was good, but it is way out of my price range anyway.
The Klipsch was really good. The demo room was well setup in the Klipsch showroom and this surely contributed to the overall experience. But the speakers produced really clear and tight lower and mids. Even during the heavier parts of the songs, I was able to clearly hear the guitars (distorted or otherwise) and the bass components really well. All this with a flat EQ! And this is the lower end offering from Klipsch. Very impressive!

Anyhow, I wanted to get your feedback on which brand/model of speakers I should audition keeping in mind the genre of music and the Norge amp.

If anyone else has any pearls of wisdom w.r.t my scneario, suggestions are welcome!

And any metalheads from Bangalore owning a Norge amp? Would like to hear your experience.

Regards
Shashank

 

[denom]

Hi Shashank,

Welcome to reality! (Passion for Metal but budgetary constraints)

Norge 2060 is the bang for buck amp to start with. As for speakers, nothing will come in the price your looking at
Klipsch speakers will go well with the Norge but am sure their cost is substantially higher than your 20K budget.

Have realised that for our Genre of Music, Pro Audio is the best & cheapest bet.
I am looking at some options on that front to fulfill the best metal playback possible.

 

[Anesthetized]

Hi Shashank,

Welcome to reality! (Passion for Metal but budgetary constraints)

Norge 2060 is the bang for buck amp to start with. As for speakers, nothing will come in the price your looking at
Klipsch speakers will go well with the Norge but am sure their cost is substantially higher than your 20K budget.

Have realised that for our Genre of Music, Pro Audio is the best & cheapest bet.
I am looking at some options on that front to fulfill the best metal playback possible.

Thanks for your response. What is your current setup then, if I may ask?

The guy at Cinebels quoted 23k for the B20. Then I found this on Amazon India: Klipsch Synergy B-20 Premium 5.25-Inch Bookshelf Speakers (Pair): Amazon.in: Electronics

I've never bought anything from this site yet. Any idea if it is a reliable buy?

I will look at Pro Audio, thanks. But do you have any specific models in mind? I think I will audition PSB and Tannoy as well next week. But I do not know what price range they fall in.

 

[denom]

Thanks for your response. What is your current setup then, if I may ask?

The guy at Cinebels quoted 23k for the B20. Then I found this on Amazon India: Klipsch Synergy B-20 Premium 5.25-Inch Bookshelf Speakers (Pair): Amazon.in: Electronics

I've never bought anything from this site yet. Any idea if it is a reliable buy?

I will look at Pro Audio, thanks. But do you have any specific models in mind? I think I will audition PSB and Tannoy as well next week. But I do not know what price range they fall in.

Current set-up is under construction as not having anything worthwhile to do justice to Metal music.

Speak to cinebels about getting the B20 for the advertised price on amazon.in via seller 'cart to india'. Surely they should match the offer if they want to make a sale in these economically challenging times. Would suggest to stick to cinebels than cart to india, even if they do not match the price as advertised on amazon, purely for the peace of mind aspect.

Audition of the PSB & Tannoy will be waste of time, trust me. Keep away from both!

Will get you upto speed on the pro audio gear ASAP.

 

[john_k_antony]

Current set-up is under construction as not having anything worthwhile to do justice to Metal music.

Speak to cinebels about getting the B20 for the advertised price on amazon.in via seller 'cart to india'. Surely they should match the offer if they want to make a sale in these economically challenging times. Would suggest to stick to cinebels than cart to india, even if they do not match the price as advertised on amazon, purely for the peace of mind aspect.

Audition of the PSB & Tannoy will be waste of time, trust me. Keep away from both!

Will get you upto speed on the pro audio gear ASAP.

+1 to the above reccomendation to get it from a dealer. Though you pay little extra, you will get total peace of mind. I had some bad experience with my KEF Q300 speakers recently and I got them fixed with out any head ache from Pro-Fx, from where I bought it.

I recently bought then entire Klipsch RB-81 II 5.1 HT package from Cinebels, Bangalore and the whole experience was very good. I know Cinebels charge a premium and their prices are always on the higher side. But the support you get from these big dealers is something you should definitely consider.

My 2 cents .

Thanks,
John.

 

[Anesthetized]

@denom
Alright I will try talk to cinebels about a possible price reduction. Thanks for this.
Also found out today that Music Ranch in Jayanagar, Bangalore has norge amps. Will see if I can audition some norge+speaker combos there. But they do not have pro audio.
Pro audio seems to have an exclusive store in st marks road here. Gotta check that out sometime too.

@john
Thanks for your input!
Cinebels did seem like a top notch professional dealer.

 

[alpha1]

I listen to Hard rock as well as Metchul and I have Quad11L speakers.
I don't think your speakers should depend on the genre of music that you play.
What sounds the closest to flat frequency response will ultimately sound the best.

(Unless you have a poorly produced album and you actually prefer setting a non-neutral EQ to make it sound better)

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Have realised that for our Genre of Music, Pro Audio is the best & cheapest bet.

Finally saw the light?

I told you this in this very thread years ago.

No one wants to listen to reason it seems. I would emphasize that normal pro audio speakers that one can listen to in India do not represent what pro audio has to offer. Often these are cheap "DIY" speakers with no thought to design.

Look at diysoundgroup speakers if you are still looking for good sound on a budget. The Fusion kit, particularly using the 12 or 15" woofer.

If you have patience I'd look into using AE woofers instead of the standard drivers offered.

 

[denom]

Finally saw the light?

I told you this in this very thread years ago.

No one wants to listen to reason it seems. I would emphasize that normal pro audio speakers that one can listen to in India do not represent what pro audio has to offer. Often these are cheap "DIY" speakers with no thought to design.

Look at diysoundgroup speakers if you are still looking for good sound on a budget. The Fusion kit, particularly using the 12 or 15" woofer.

If you have patience I'd look into using AE woofers instead of the standard drivers offered.

Bows down to the learned one saying 'i am not worthy, i am not worthy'
Guruji, the light has finally shone!!!

It pays to let this thought process happen to oneself rather than getting 'rammed down ones throat' by somebody else, for it to be fully appreciated.

BTW, thanks for rubbing it in :lol:

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Bows down to the learned one saying 'i am not worthy, i am not worthy'
Guruji, the light has finally shone!!!

It pays to let this thought process happen to oneself rather than getting 'rammed down ones throat' by somebody else, for it to be fully appreciated.

BTW, thanks for rubbing it in :lol:

I can fully appreciate that there is no better teacher than experience, that said it gets really old trying to help people on the forums and none of them are willing to listen because home audio has brainwashed their minds.

If you read my old posts, I actually was trying to help by passing on my experiences

What pro equipment have you heard? I read somewhere you heard Genelec?

They are great for studios but expensive and typically not the most suited to metal/electronic. Flat response sounds good on paper and done right can sound "beautiful" but it does not sound "fun". Flat response also tends to lead to fatigue at higher levels, especially with music like metal.

Metal (and electronic which is what I still listen to) is all about the fun, let the music move you.

I sincerely hope you achieve the bliss you seek.

 

[square_wave]

@ DS and Denom,

This is very true.

I have never been convinced with the reproduction of heavy metal stuff on speakers created for accuracy and tonal purity.

That music needs a certain kind of presentation which only large low frequency drivers and horn loaded compression drivers can give. In fact all music of the rock variety tend to sound more fun on speakers that lean towards this kind of design.

 

[denom]

I can fully appreciate that there is no better teacher than experience, that said it gets really old trying to help people on the forums and none of them are willing to listen because home audio has brainwashed their minds.

If you read my old posts, I actually was trying to help by passing on my experiences

What pro equipment have you heard? I read somewhere you heard Genelec?

They are great for studios but expensive and typically not the most suited to metal/electronic. Flat response sounds good on paper and done right can sound "beautiful" but it does not sound "fun". Flat response also tends to lead to fatigue at higher levels, especially with music like metal.

Metal (and electronic which is what I still listen to) is all about the fun, let the music move you.

I sincerely hope you achieve the bliss you seek.

Thanks for your patience & helping hand BUT until & unless it dawns on oneself, no amount of suggestions/opinions which are given in good faith & genuinely out of 'been there done that' mode, will work!

Home audio brainwashing is there but the wiser ones will ultimately realise it themselves

Yes, have always read your older posts/PM's & as they say hindsight is always 20-20!

Am now getting into the pro-audio waters so will take time to wade through the stuff, you may as always be the ever helpful guide for the same by posting your experiences, likes, dislikes in either this thread or start a new one on the same.

Yes, have/had Genelecs, lets leave them out of this discussion as they are intended for a different purpose, on which you have touched upon. FYI, they never 'fatigued' me even when played for hours together.

Have gone through the accuracy quest & now journey towards speakers for reproducing metal music the way it should, so back to square one & the thread becomes relevant once again

Thanks DS, for coming back as the tour guide - lead the way Guruji

 

[ssf]

It's been a rare occasion that I have had the privilege to log on to hifivision and when I did so today, a message caught my eye telling me that it's been a while since I have answered a query or posted a question on the forum. So I told myself that I will go blah blah on the forum just to oblige the good folks running HiFiVision and in my effort to find a suitable thread to do so, one that will not take objection or offence to my blah, I was fortunate to come across this thread.

Two things caught my attention, one, the fact that it was a thread on rock/heavy metal and the other was that it was started by Denom a few years back.

The conclusion that I drew from the thread is that if one wants to really enjoy heavy metal/hard rock at his residence, one needs to invest in a professional speaker system. (What recommendations for the amp btw, no offence intended)

While I can understand the obvious logic behind it, which being, plays very very loud albeit compromising a bit on accuracy (please don't give me brick bats for this) I somehow don't get how this is recommended for listening at ones residence, unless one has invested huge amounts to make ones listening room sound proof.

I was coincidentally listening to power ballads on accuradio when I was reading this thread and from my signature you will know that I have a very basic system and while the music was enjoyable, it was not really stirring my emotions. So I decided to turn my EQ on and a few adjustments later, hey what do you know, I feel like am 18 again loving hard rock ballads !!!

So is there a point to this post ? Probably not. But then if I have to make an attempt to make a point, I would say that flat is good for some genre of music like Classical which I enjoy with my EQ off and then there is Hard Rock/Regge/Disco (hehe) wherin a bit of EQ adjustment is called for to either enjoy the music by oneself or to impress non-audiophile friends but I really would'nt take is so far as to invest on a professional system to enjoy listening to power ballads but then what do I know, am an old tipsy fart who will probably regret this post tomorrow morning :lol:

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

@ DS and Denom,

This is very true.

I have never been convinced with the reproduction of heavy metal stuff on speakers created for accuracy and tonal purity.

That music needs a certain kind of presentation which only large low frequency drivers and horn loaded compression drivers can give. In fact all music of the rock variety tend to sound more fun on speakers that lean towards this kind of design.

I will note that these horn loaded systems with large LF drivers will do wonderfully on any music provided you have DSP and measurement gear and a bit of knowledge about what to do with the DSP.

Thanks for your patience & helping hand BUT until & unless it dawns on oneself, no amount of suggestions/opinions which are given in good faith & genuinely out of 'been there done that' mode, will work!

Home audio brainwashing is there but the wiser ones will ultimately realise it themselves

Yes, have always read your older posts/PM's & as they say hindsight is always 20-20!

Am now getting into the pro-audio waters so will take time to wade through the stuff, you may as always be the ever helpful guide for the same by posting your experiences, likes, dislikes in either this thread or start a new one on the same.

Yes, have/had Genelecs, lets leave them out of this discussion as they are intended for a different purpose, on which you have touched upon. FYI, they never 'fatigued' me even when played for hours together.

Have gone through the accuracy quest & now journey towards speakers for reproducing metal music the way it should, so back to square one & the thread becomes relevant once again

Thanks DS, for coming back as the tour guide - lead the way Guruji

What Genelecs do you have?

I mentioned flat response leads to fatigue not the Genelecs, you would need to measure the response at the listening position to know what you are actually hearing, I also do not know what is the Genelec's native ground plane response, the charts on their datasheets do not mention the smoothing and I try to take manufacturer spec sheets with a bit of salt. It also depends on volume whether it sounds fatiguing or not and the room.

There is a trade off involved somewhere in the frequency response, either you go with a more "fun" sounding response or you go with a more "beautiful" sounding one, neither is best achieved by a flat response. Home audio companies tailor response to have certain "voicing" and it is these flavors that differentiate them that "audiophiles" talk about and are usually only a product of differing frequency response, of course much of it is also bias. You can basically achieve any flavor desired with the right tools and knowledge and some effort.

I will be happy to assist you if you have any specific questions.

It's been a rare occasion that I have had the privilege to log on to hifivision and when I did so today, a message caught my eye telling me that it's been a while since I have answered a query or posted a question on the forum. So I told myself that I will go blah blah on the forum just to oblige the good folks running HiFiVision and in my effort to find a suitable thread to do so, one that will not take objection or offence to my blah, I was fortunate to come across this thread.

Two things caught my attention, one, the fact that it was a thread on rock/heavy metal and the other was that it was started by Denom a few years back.

The conclusion that I drew from the thread is that if one wants to really enjoy heavy metal/hard rock at his residence, one needs to invest in a professional speaker system. (What recommendations for the amp btw, no offence intended)

While I can understand the obvious logic behind it, which being, plays very very loud albeit compromising a bit on accuracy (please don't give me brick bats for this) I somehow don't get how this is recommended for listening at ones residence, unless one has invested huge amounts to make ones listening room sound proof.

I was coincidentally listening to power ballads on accuradio when I was reading this thread and from my signature you will know that I have a very basic system and while the music was enjoyable, it was not really stirring my emotions. So I decided to turn my EQ on and a few adjustments later, hey what do you know, I feel like am 18 again loving hard rock ballads !!!

So is there a point to this thread ? Probably not. But then if I have to make an attempt to make a point, I would say that flat is good for some genre of music like Classical which I enjoy with my EQ off and then there is Hard Rock/Regge/Disco (hehe) wherin a bit of EQ adjustment is called for to either enjoy the music by oneself or to impress non-audiophile friends but I really would'nt take is so far as to invest on a professional system to enjoy listening to power ballads but then what do I know, am an old tipsy fart who will probably regret this post tomorrow morning :lol:

You need professional amps.

Good pro audio systems will exceed the "accuracy" of a home audio system. By accuracy I refer only to accurate frequency response ground plane. What sounds good subjectively is personal preference, bias factors in here. I will bet that in a proper blind test with a good pro system (that has been setup correctly) and home audio speaker most (if not all) people will prefer the pro system. People all too often mistake the local "soundwalla" or night club as the epitome of pro audio, I can assure you this is not the case at all. In audio only about a third of the sound you hear is the equipment, the rest are 1/3rd setup and 1/3rd room. By setup I refer primarily to DSP. If not using DSP then the room is very dominant for the sound you hear as the job of DSP is to correct for room issues,inherent speaker/subwoofer response issues,integrate multiple speakers/subwoofers and add flavor.

Think of it this way, if a Ferrari with normal tires crashes while driving on ice with a drunk driver, do you blame the car? It is actually a combination of all three. Ideally you want to be on an empty highway with an experienced driver, only then will you truly get all the performance the car has to offer.

 

[ssf]

You need professional amps.

Good pro audio systems will exceed the "accuracy" of a home audio system. By accuracy I refer only to accurate frequency response ground plane. What sounds good subjectively is personal preference, bias factors in here. I will bet that in a proper blind test with a good pro system (that has been setup correctly) and home audio speaker most (if not all) people will prefer the pro system. People all too often mistake the local "soundwalla" or night club as the epitome of pro audio, I can assure you this is not the case at all. In audio only about a third of the sound you hear is the equipment, the rest are 1/3rd setup and 1/3rd room. By setup I refer primarily to DSP. If not using DSP then the room is very dominant for the sound you hear as the job of DSP is to correct for room issues,inherent speaker/subwoofer response issues,integrate multiple speakers/subwoofers and add flavor.

From your posts it can be seen that you have a vast experience in the field of audio so it would be foolish of me to not keep an open mind on the subject.

 

[fx20]

My preference, XLS Encore. Fast and deep and rich low register, smooth and clear high register. It is also very affordable.

 

[Jesusly]

Hi Denon, were you able to finally get a decent setup for metal music ? I have similar preference ?