Advice on Pre Power Amps with Klipsch RP -8000F

[raghupb]

I thought McIntosh, PS Audio, Parasound Emotiva are the brands one can not go wrong with. But toy surprise no one mentioned about these brands

Any brand or set up can go wrong in a given room.
How one likes to hear music is very personal.

I always advocate the NMO (Needs, Means, Opportunities) approach.
1. Do I need this or that?
2. Do I have the means to buy them (mainly budget)?
3. Do I have the opportunity to host them in my listening space?

All brands (even the budget ones) work best when there is room/system synergy.
And you may have to compromise a wee bit when opting for a lesser known or cheaper line of a well known brand.

Case in point:
I was at FM @anirudhchandrashekar home for a couple of sessions.
He has top of the line PSB speakers, but they were almost happy being driven by low budget gear.
"Almost" is an operative term here; meaning there are some compromises.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Vivek Batra]

Any brand or set up can go wrong in a given room.
How one likes to hear music is very personal.

I always advocate the NMO (Needs, Means, Opportunities) approach.
1. Do I need this or that?
2. Do I have the means to buy them (mainly budget)?
3. Do I have the opportunity to host them in my listening space?

All brands (even the budget ones) work best when there is room/system synergy.
And you may have to compromise a wee bit when opting for a lesser known or cheaper line of a well known brand.

Case in point:
I was at FM @anirudhchandrashekar home for a couple of sessions.
He has top of the line PSB speakers, but they were almost happy being driven by low budget gear.
"Almost" is an operative term here; meaning there are some compromises.

Cheers,
Raghu

Fully second to you on all points.

 

[jr83]

Chiming in here with my opinion:
I had my first stereo setup in a similar position not too long ago. And I say this with complete honesty, you have a GREAT pair of speakers and a decent amp (not really "musical" but definitely good).

Things I'd definitely change is the speaker and furniture positioning. Speaker positioning, Wider apart to equal the distance from the speakers to your seating position. More distance from the wall for sure, at least 3ft, ideally 4-5. I know it isn't easy but it's the minimum you can do. Furniture, do whatever you can to make the above point work. I'd also take the sub woofer out of the equation when doing all this and run these in 2.0 large, Direct without eq. Reduce the variables as much as possible.

I understand you can't move the furniture too much, I really do. But all this positioning and fine tuning is only to do one thing, to let you know that the speakers you've bought are great. After you do that, just move everything back and maintain how much ever you can of the ideal position.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Chiming in here with my opinion:
I had my first stereo setup in a similar position not too long ago. And I say this with complete honesty, you have a GREAT pair of speakers and a decent amp (not really "musical" but definitely good).

Things I'd definitely change is the speaker and furniture positioning. Speaker positioning, Wider apart to equal the distance from the speakers to your seating position. More distance from the wall for sure, at least 3ft, ideally 4-5. I know it isn't easy but it's the minimum you can do. Furniture, do whatever you can to make the above point work. I'd also take the sub woofer out of the equation when doing all this and run these in 2.0 large, Direct without eq. Reduce the variables as much as possible.

I understand you can't move the furniture too much, I really do. But all this positioning and fine tuning is only to do one thing, to let you know that the speakers you've bought are great. After you do that, just move everything back and maintain how much ever you can of the ideal position.

Thanks. This what I am getting mostly, to trust the equipment I have

 

[Kushanava]

Thanks for the post. For sure these speakers have not run for 240 hours. But I have moved them from 12 feet wall to 18 feet wall around 8 inch from the wall. They are sounding better now. But as you said these might not be my taste. I need to audition at least a couple of more different speakers to know the difference.

@ vivek
I dont think moving to 18ft wall is a good idea , u will be prone to backwall reflection more...speaker break in is absolutely a must before u start thinking of selling it....The spkr positioning and room acoustic is fundamental to any speaker purchase.....if the dealer from whom u got d speakers is nearby ..ask him to make visit to ur place..its part of his duty to assist the customer to set up his system...

ask him to carry a simple " thick sounding" stereo amp if possible likely a tube amp...even without acoustic treatment products u can get 80% of the sound by proper placement....

If you have liked d speaker at ur dealers place in ur 2nd visit also then ...it must be something other than d speakers...

 

[Naturelover]

You could look at Naim Unity series also

One is for sale here

For Sale - Naim Uniti Atom - EDIT (Price Drop)

Hi guys.. up for sale is a beautiful sounding & looking Naim Uniti Atom streaming amplifier. Purchased from UK in end of March 2019 . Sparingly used. This was purchased to setup a second system, but have dropped the idea for now. Comes with all the original packaging and invoice. Shipping...

www.hifivision.com

 

[Naturelover]

In Chandigarh

For Sale - Harbeth SHL5

Harbeth need no introduction in audiophile category. Want to sell my Harbeth SHL 5 speakers in rosewood finish with original packing available. Reason of selling is availability of space at my place. Interested can contact me. Speakers are available in Bangalore. Shipping possible at...

www.hifivision.com

EDIT:
Sorry, I just looked at the seller's location which said Chandigarh. Speakers are in Bnagalore.

 

[Vivek Batra]

In Chandigarh

For Sale - Harbeth SHL5

Harbeth need no introduction in audiophile category. Want to sell my Harbeth SHL 5 speakers in rosewood finish with original packing available. Reason of selling is availability of space at my place. Interested can contact me. Speakers are available in Bangalore. Shipping possible at...

www.hifivision.com

EDIT:
Sorry, I just looked at the seller's location which said Chandigarh. Speakers are in Bnagalore.

Well still thanks for looking this up. We are already talking on phone but for something else. The person has moved from Chandigarh to Bangalore.

 

[delhite2]

Hi. I will pitch in with my opinion on your matter.
I read your room size and saw your placement, also the recommendation of a fellow member on placement. Yes you need to space them further apart and move them forward from back wall by 2 ft at minimum. They need breathing space.

An integrated like a marantz or stereo receiver like the Rn803 could do better but the AVR you have is no slouch. You should definitely get a satisfying feel from your equipment.

I also suggest moving your speaker cables to 12 gauge or maybe you can biwire or biamp since you have that option in your AVR with 14 gauge.
Power cables in your case the one in use by denon won't require replacement nor do you need power conditioning.

In my opinion you should also turn off your Subwoofer, set the mains to large speakers running them full band with no crossover, adding a Subwoofer presents more problems than it solves in 2 channel (like time delay, crossover etc)

Lastly run the AVR without any tweaks like room correction / dynamic volume etc, just play with tone levels at first. It should sound decent without any tweaks to start of with.

Noob check. Do check the wiring for polarity matching on the speakers & AVR, a mistake as small as this can mess everything.

Be sure to be running just the 2 channel mode on Denon (stereo), if for some reason you are running all channel stereo or other matrix effects you will have a considerable drop in stereo output.

And yes by time the speakers especially the low end does open up when all the mechanical parts are run in for some time.
Regards

 

[Vivek Batra]

Hi. I will pitch in with my opinion on your matter.
I read your room size and saw your placement, also the recommendation of a fellow member on placement. Yes you need to space them further apart and move them forward from back wall by 2 ft at minimum. They need breathing space.

An integrated like a marantz or stereo receiver like the Rn803 could do better but the AVR you have is no slouch. You should definitely get a satisfying feel from your equipment.

I also suggest moving your speaker cables to 12 gauge or maybe you can biwire or biamp since you have that option in your AVR with 14 gauge.
Power cables in your case the one in use by denon won't require replacement nor do you need power conditioning.

In my opinion you should also turn off your Subwoofer, set the mains to large speakers running them full band with no crossover, adding a Subwoofer presents more problems than it solves in 2 channel (like time delay, crossover etc)

Lastly run the AVR without any tweaks like room correction / dynamic volume etc, just play with tone levels at first. It should sound decent without any tweaks to start of with.

Noob check. Do check the wiring for polarity matching on the speakers & AVR, a mistake as small as this can mess everything.

Be sure to be running just the 2 channel mode on Denon (stereo), if for some reason you are running all channel stereo or other matrix effects you will have a considerable drop in stereo output.

And yes by time the speakers especially the low end does open up when all the mechanical parts are run in for some time.
Regards

Hope you will see everything at my place in person tomorrow.

 

[Vivek Batra]

So @delhite2 visited my place yesterday all the way from New Delhi to Chandigarh. Many thanks to @delhite2 for offering me his help and discussing so many things. We spent around 90 minutes together listening to various genres and tried a couple of things. Did some trials that I will stick to for coming days to see if those make any difference.

Rest @delhite2 can add more for other people to explain better what he observed listening to in my environment.

Once again thanks for showing up it was nice to have you.

 

[delhite2]

So @delhite2 visited my place yesterday all the way from New Delhi to Chandigarh. Many thanks to @delhite2 for offering me his help and discussing so many things. We spent around 90 minutes together listening to various genres and tried a couple of things. Did some trials that I will stick to for coming days to see if those make any difference.

Rest @delhite2 can add more for other people to explain better what he observed listening to in my environment.

Once again thanks for showing up it was nice to have you.

It was a pleasure to be of little assistance.
As to my observations, I believe the system in 2.0 config that we listened to performed very well. The mids & highs were a bit laid back without any room correction or tone control applied & that is very unlike horn loaded systems, this had probably something to do with room mode & was evident once we saw the correction curve being applied by audyssey.

IMHO your money is well spent on 2.0 config and it sounded good for most part, if I were to quantify it I would say that 80% of your money can be heard, while the rest 20% can be achieved too that would require more man hours to work with your system, placement & maybe some accoustic treatments.

The sound was deep, had punch, however lacking we found the upper and upper middle end i think its more to do with angle, toe in, room placements.

Yes for your style of taste which you described they are good but certainly there are better out there. For me I think if you are still unsatisfied with these you should have a good demo of stuff available and buy some good bookshelves, something maybe with AMT/ribbon tweeter which have good airy clean fast highs & mids.
All the best

 

[Deleted member 38504]

Super to see forum members help each other out in other cities! I was lucky enough to have good friends to help me out to in bom.

 

[alphacentury100]

I think you dont like the sound signature of the Klipsch. Most people consider the Klipsch speakers to be bright. They are great for movies, but not all of us prefer them for music. If you prefer less bright sound then you start auditioning such speakers. Elac UniFi Floorstands is a good start.
The AV Receiver you have is good one so no need to think about changing it. Even if you include a Power amplifier, it wont change the sound signature of your Klipsch. Power amp will only make the speakers play a bit tignt, controlled and increase the dynamics bit. So it is better to audition before purchase as different people prefer different sound signature.

 

[Enkay78]

I think you dont like the sound signature of the Klipsch. Most people consider the Klipsch speakers to be bright. They are great for movies, but not all of us prefer them for music. If you prefer less bright sound then you start auditioning such speakers. Elac UniFi Floorstands is a good start.
The AV Receiver you have is good one so no need to think about changing it. Even if you include a Power amplifier, it wont change the sound signature of your Klipsch. Power amp will only make the speakers play a bit tignt, controlled and increase the dynamics bit. So it is better to audition before purchase as different people prefer different sound signature.

The newer 8000F are supposed to sound better and not as bright as it's predecessors. (As per reviews).

 

[Vivek Batra]

The newer 8000F are supposed to sound better and not as bright as it's predecessors. (As per reviews).

Unfortunately I am feeling HF overpowering mids and lows.

 

[Enkay78]

You and I in the same spot. We need a better stereo amp for them for music.

I also find my denon avr a poor match.

 

[Vivek Batra]

You and I in the same spot. We need a better stereo amp for them for music.

I also find my denon avr a poor match.

What's your setup?

 

[newlash09]

It was a pleasure to be of little assistance.
As to my observations, I believe the system in 2.0 config that we listened to performed very well. The mids & highs were a bit laid back without any room correction or tone control applied & that is very unlike horn loaded systems, this had probably something to do with room mode & was evident once we saw the correction curve being applied by audyssey.

IMHO your money is well spent on 2.0 config and it sounded good for most part, if I were to quantify it I would say that 80% of your money can be heard, while the rest 20% can be achieved too that would require more man hours to work with your system, placement & maybe some accoustic treatments.

The sound was deep, had punch, however lacking we found the upper and upper middle end i think its more to do with angle, toe in, room placements.

Yes for your style of taste which you described they are good but certainly there are better out there. For me I think if you are still unsatisfied with these you should have a good demo of stuff available and buy some good bookshelves, something maybe with AMT/ribbon tweeter which have good airy clean fast highs & mids.
All the best

Hi Delhite2...your gesture and help are highly appreciated. I wouldn't have ever imagined anyone would make a trip to a different city just to help out. Way to go

 

[alphacentury100]

The newer 8000F are supposed to sound better and not as bright as it's predecessors. (As per reviews).

Yes, I too heard that these models (8000F) are more balanced than the older ones, but havent heard them yet.
But as of now, The Klipsch speakers (the models I heard) are too bright and harsh to my taste.
But they can go very loud and fill up a very large room comfortably.