Are AVRs really cheap in Hong Kong

[venkatcr]

So, first, what would be a good place to start reading up about what are the different things I can do with this, or it would do for me. Next, like you said, where on the forums can I read up about the speakers?

What I usually do is take the manual and read it from cover to cover like a novel. Then I start experimenting with the system, and refer to the manual when needed. Don't worry, with Audessey setting, it is quite easy to set up.

The 1909 is a new model, and you may not find too much help on the Net. We shall all, of course, help you as much as we can. I have downloaded the manual for myself, and I can always see what I can do.

Regarding speakers, just go to 'Forums', and look under Speakers. (Speakers). You will find a large number (391 as of today) of discussions. You can also start a new thread if you feel it is necessary.

Cheers

 

[bazee]

hi

did you have to pay any duties at airport
what was the value of bill you showed to customs

regards

 

[rajat13777]

What I usually do is take the manual and read it from cover to cover like a novel. Then I start experimenting with the system, and refer to the manual when needed. Don't worry, with Audessey setting, it is quite easy to set up.

The 1909 is a new model, and you may not find too much help on the Net. We shall all, of course, help you as much as we can. I have downloaded the manual for myself, and I can always see what I can do.

Regarding speakers, just go to 'Forums', and look under Speakers. (Speakers). You will find a large number (391 as of today) of discussions. You can also start a new thread if you feel it is necessary.

Cheers

Yes Guys,

So the agenda now is:

1. READ THE MANUAL (or whatever I can understand)
2. READ THE FORUM (NONE of which I understand)
3. LOOK FOR SPEAKERS (not sure how I can check any speakers - I have the AVR, so should I carry it aroundto shops or ask them to bring the speakers to my place. The main problem was that In Gurgaon, where I stay, there are NO shops selling Denon. There was one & that guy now has only Marantz.

Raman,

No taxes in HK, That is the fun about China. Also, if you stay out of India for at least 3 days, you can get stuff worth 25K (last I read the Income Tax Act!!!) without paying any customs etc. Also, it is easily clubbed if you are travelling with family, so not an issue at all.

Guys,

Must say, this thread has become very very technical and I did not understand anything which went on amongst you all ;-)

Rajat

 

[raman340]

Raman:

1. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through any of composite, component, or S-Video, and the AVR to the TV through an HDMI, the AVR will invoke the DCDi Video processing and upscale the video to 1080p. In this case, you also have to connect a coaxial or optical digital to get full surround sound.

Agree totally!!

2. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through an HDMI cable and the AVR to the TV through another HDMI cable, and IF the DVD Player sends a 1080p signal, the AVR will just it along to the TV as is.

Agree but what about signals lower than 1080p? (in case of some sat trans in future or some other source)

The only thing I am not sure about 'video pass through' is whether or not the AVR will process the audio coming in through HDMI (DVD to AVR) as surround sound and power the speakers.

I think it will, since 1909 supports TrueHD and other new 1.3a specs. These can be carried only on HDMI (I guess).

 

[venkatcr]

Agree but what about signals lower than 1080p? (in case of some sat trans in future or some other source)

I am not sure. It only says upscaling of analog signals, so I feel it will pass all signals coming through HDMI as is.

I think it will, since 1909 supports TrueHD and other new 1.3a specs. These can be carried only on HDMI (I guess).

I do hope so. But this has to be confirmed.

Cheers

 

[rajat13777]

hi

did you have to pay any duties at airport
what was the value of bill you showed to customs

regards

No duties mate!

Like I said, you are entitled to get 25K per person or so with 3 days stay outside India.

 

[rajat13777]

Raman:

The 1909 brochure has the following for video section:

• Denon??s High Picture Quality Circuitry, to enhance enjoyment of existing DVDs
• Faroudja DCDi Video Processing
• Analog video to HDMI scaling up to 1080p
• 1080p video pass through

What this means is the following:

1. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through any of composite, component, or S-Video, and the AVR to the TV through an HDMI, the AVR will invoke the DCDi Video processing and upscale the video to 1080p. In this case, you also have to connect a coaxial or optical digital to get full surround sound.

2. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through an HDMI cable and the AVR to the TV through another HDMI cable, and IF the DVD Player sends a 1080p signal, the AVR will just it along to the TV as is.

The only thing I am not sure about 'video pass through' is whether or not the AVR will process the audio coming in through HDMI (DVD to AVR) as surround sound and power the speakers.

I suppose Rajath can experiment with some some connections and let us know what happens.

Congratulations, Rajath.

Cheers

Hey Venkat,

So now the next step:

Speakers - Should I go listen to the ProFX Fusion 5 series? They are to be sent to Delhi from Bangalore. Like I mentioned before, they cost 40K but are being sold at 20K right now. BUT the only problem I see is that when I was initially enquiring from B'lore guys, they told me that the set of speakers goes best with 1509, not so much with 1909. Now that I have the latter, should I be re-looking? Anyway, are there any speakers that are universally accepted as good. Just like the AVR, which everyone I spoke to told me could be picked up without repenting?
ALSO,

is the 1909 capable of supporting a set of speakers in another room as well? I mean, I plan to set this up in the bedroom, but would not mind if mI can get output in the living room as well (when I want) - Is that possible? Is that the difference b/w 5.1 and 7.1?
ALSO,
what is a down firing woofer? SOme one in office mentioned that I should really buy one of those.

ALSO,

I have a set of multimedia Bose speakers. Can I use them right now to see what kind of output this AVR omits? They are simple pin jack speakers so not sure where to plug them in the sea of input options.


Cables - How do I go about the cables? I understand from your (& others') posts here that there are multiple ways of connecting to the AVR. Frankly, I am only accustomed to the red-yellow-white cable. So what else do I need? I have a DVD player, a music system, a PS2 & a PS3.
Also, someone somewhere told me that I should buy only fiber optic cable for the entire thing. I just bought a new house & plan to get the wiring done in it before I move in so that the whole thing looks neat (no wires hanging out). Any inputs here?

Again, is there a place where a newbie like me can go & get the basics right or I will keep pestering you guys forever.

 

[venkatcr]

Speakers - Should I go listen to the ProFX Fusion 5 series? They are to be sent to Delhi from Bangalore. Like I mentioned before, they cost 40K but are being sold at 20K right now. BUT the only problem I see is that when I was initially enquiring from B'lore guys, they told me that the set of speakers goes best with 1509, not so much with 1909. Now that I have the latter, should I be re-looking? Anyway, are there any speakers that are universally accepted as good. Just like the AVR, which everyone I spoke to told me could be picked up without repenting?

This depends a lot on your budget. I would say 4 bookshelves, a centre channel, and a sub from a company such as MS or Wharfedale would be a good choice. You cal also look at cinema set from a company such as KEF. If I know your budget, I can give you some choices.

is the 1909 capable of supporting a set of speakers in another room as well? I mean, I plan to set this up in the bedroom, but would not mind if mI can get output in the living room as well (when I want) - Is that possible? Is that the difference b/w 5.1 and 7.1?

The 1909 support Zone 2. What this means is that the FRONT L&R channels can be played in another room with another set of speakers. The difference between 7.1 and 5.1 is the two REAR (or BACK) Channels (L&R) that is not there in 5.1

what is a down firing woofer? SOme one in office mentioned that I should really buy one of those.

Down firing woofer is one in which the driver's face is turned downwards so that it radiates downward, towards the floor. The only issue with down firing woofers is if you live in a flat. The people in the flat below will have a headache. Otherwise down firing subs have the advantage of positioning and made by some of the best sub woofer companies in the world.

Some of the sub manufacturing companies are the following. Not all will be available. Please remember subs are also made by speaker manufacturing companies.

• Paradigm
• SVS Powered Subwoofers
• HSU Research Powered Subwoofers
• Klipsch Powered Subwoofers
• Axiom
• NHT
• Polk
• Velodyne
• PSB Powered Subwoofers
• EPOS ELS Sub

I have a set of multimedia Bose speakers. Can I use them right now to see what kind of output this AVR omits? They are simple pin jack speakers so not sure where to plug them in the sea of input options.

You can certainly connect the AVR to these speakers. BUT, these speakers can only handle small amounts of power (something like 10 or 15 watts). The 1909 will be too powerful and if you increase the volume a bit, the speakers will start distorting. I would avoid connecting them, Even if you do, play at very low volumes.

Cables - How do I go about the cables? I understand from your (& others') posts here that there are multiple ways of connecting to the AVR. Frankly, I am only accustomed to the red-yellow-white cable. So what else do I need? I have a DVD player, a music system, a PS2 & a PS3.

Please read my article http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/2608-avr-connectivity.html for details on connectors and cables. Rajat, you need the following connections at a bare minimum:

From the DVD Player to the AVR

1. A pair of coaxial RCA cables to listen to music.
2. Either a coaxial or optical digital to get surround sound.
3. Either an HDMI or a component get video.

From the AVR to the TV

1. Either a HDMI or a component cable for video.

From AVR to speakers

1. Two pairs of speaker cables for the FRONT L&R Channel
2. A pair of speaker cables for the Center Channel
3. Two pairs of speaker cables for the SURROUND L&R Channels.
5. One coaxial cable for the sub woofer.

This is the bare minimum set for a 5.1 Depending upon how many speakers you set up we can finalise the set up.

Also, someone somewhere told me that I should buy only fibre optic cable for the entire thing. I just bought a new house & plan to get the wiring done in it before I move in so that the whole thing looks neat (no wires hanging out). Any inputs here?

The only cables that will be running around the house are the speaker cables. The rest of the cables including the optical will be very short runs between the DVD Player, AVR, and the TV. Of course if you are using a projector, you will need to run a component or HDMI cable upto the projector.

Again, is there a place where a newbie like me can go & get the basics right or I will keep pestering you guys forever.

What better place than HiFiVision.COM?

Cheers

 

[raman340]

Congrats once again Rajat. You are abs right about the 25K limit. (I asked since u mentioned 27-28K).

In my opinion,
1) 1st shop for the speakers. You can visit Dwarka Sec-5 at Denny's place and audition some speakers. He has good knowledge and is helpful also. (Bass n Treble).

BASS 'n' TREBLE (for Wharfedale, Quad, DAC, Vanguard)
F-6, First floor, Manish Link Road, Plaza-1,
Plot 9, Sector-5, Dwarka, New Delhi-110075.
Tel: 9999016124, (011) 45509308.

2) Arrange your setup (equipment and cabling)

3) Its best to setup and then read the entire manual, so that you get some hands on experience ;-)

Ciao!

 

[raman340]

I am not sure. It only says upscaling of analog signals, so I feel it will pass all signals coming through HDMI as is.

I am quite sure now. I also read this from the manual. Pg-40.
Scaler Resolution settings -> "This can be set when "i/p Scaler" is set to "A to H'" ...

I interpret "A to H" as "Analog to HDMI".... So "Filling in the Blanks":

1) Upscaling will happen only when Analog i/p's are connected. That's what they call HDMI pass-through.

2) If IN=HDMI, OUT=HDMI You will get both A and V signals to TV. Also you will get (in all likelihood) HD audio to the receiver for IN=HDMI.

3) If IN=Analog, OUT=HDMI You will only get V signals to TV (with or without upscaling). However there is I believe a setting to o/p audio to TV in this case also. But this has to be done via remote.

Oh man!!! Y does this happen everytime I finalize my amp (actually the second time). Over to getting quotes for 2309 also!!

 

[rajat13777]

Congrats once again Rajat. You are abs right about the 25K limit. (I asked since u mentioned 27-28K).

In my opinion,
1) 1st shop for the speakers. You can visit Dwarka Sec-5 at Denny's place and audition some speakers. He has good knowledge and is helpful also. (Bass n Treble).

BASS 'n' TREBLE (for Wharfedale, Quad, DAC, Vanguard)
F-6, First floor, Manish Link Road, Plaza-1,
Plot 9, Sector-5, Dwarka, New Delhi-110075.
Tel: 9999016124, (011) 45509308.

2) Arrange your setup (equipment and cabling)

3) Its best to setup and then read the entire manual, so that you get some hands on experience ;-)

Ciao!

Hey Guys,

So I have an appointment with the Bass & Treble guy tomorrow. What he recommended is as follows:

Front - Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Rs12500
Centre - Wharfedale Diamond 9.cc Rs8700
Surround - Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 Rs9500
Subwoofer - Wharfedale SW150 Rs20000
TOTAL Rs50450

Still have to hear the sound, but doesn't that sound too much!?!

I've seen a few threads asking about speakers for a lac & stuff, so you guys must really be into it.

So Raman, Venkat - any insights why the Wharfedale speakers are so expensive and are there any cheaper alternatives I should listen to?

Rajat

PS: I have this really heavy box in my house, which says DENON boldly on the outside, but I cannot do anything with it till I land some speakers. I got a friend to loan me his 'unused for sometime' Clarion speakers, but when I saw their size, I just did not have the heart to plug them in.

Never felt so anxious, at least not for some time

 

[bazee]

Check my Wharfedale 9.5 setup for sale in classifieds section.

Though it wont be cheap, as what the dealer is offering you is 9.2 based setup.


regards
bazee

 

[venkatcr]

So Raman, Venkat - any insights why the Wharfedale speakers are so expensive and are there any cheaper alternatives I should listen to?

Rajath, speakers range in price from 5000 to upwards of 10 lakhs a pair. What we are looking for is the best we can get at a particular price range linked to the kind of music and movies we like.

Companies such as Mission, Wharfedale, MS, spend a lot on design, research, testing, etc. They also try to use the best parts they can at a particular price point. All these companies, if you see, will have multiple ranges - each at different price points.

What you have to do is fix your budget. Then we can look for the best within that price range.

Cheers

 

[bazee]

Why spks start from 5000. May be too expensive for some !!:

 

[venkatcr]

Why spks start from 5000. May be too expensive for some !!:

You have brought back some nostalgic memories. When I was in hostel during my college days, I used to get some 100 Rs. a month as pocket money. So my music source consisted of a 50 Rupee transistor which had just a dial for tuning. For speakers I had a two inch driver that I picked up from some kabbadiwallah. I had soldered two thin wires to the terminal points of the driver.

The driver was kept bare on the table facing up. I had opened up the transistor, and had two additional wires soldered to the terminal points of the tiny internal speaker. When I used to come back to to room, I would twist the wires from the transistor to the wires on the driver, and Viola, I had a stereo system! Used to listen Amin Sayani and Binaca Geet Mala with my ears glued to the driver. The whole thing costs me 75 odd rupees and I used it for two years.

Sigh, those were the days.

Cheers

 

[raman340]

Hey Guys,

So I have an appointment with the Bass & Treble guy tomorrow. What he recommended is as follows:

Front - Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Rs12500
Centre - Wharfedale Diamond 9.cc Rs8700
Surround - Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 Rs9500
Subwoofer - Wharfedale SW150 Rs20000
TOTAL Rs50450

So Raman, Venkat - any insights why the Wharfedale speakers are so expensive and are there any cheaper alternatives I should listen to?

Rajat, I think Venkat is abs right. You need to fix your budget. In my case, I have some OK types speakers already (Active SUB and 5 sats). I tested them at Denny's place with a Denon 1708,and I think I would not
be changing for another year or so.
I will go in a step by step phase....LCD and 1909 as of now and spkrs if required later.
BTW I will also be probably coming tomo at Denny's place to get my 1909.

Regards
Raman

 

[rajat13777]

Frankly, I don't have a budget as such. I mean, I would much rather pick up speakers in 3 installments (front pair, surround, sub) over a period of time. Having said that, I would also not want to spend so much that I sound like a #%$$. I guess I will definitely not go beyond 50K. Seriously, every time I see these expensive ones, I am reminded of the Harman Kardon set. Really liked the sound, really liked the looks and at 25K for ev'thing (including cables), like the price as well.

So I really think I wanna try out as many as I can, & then pick the one that is the best value for money, something that I did for the AVR as well.

Hey Raman, I might see you there man, will make it around 12. I am also taking my AVR there, to see if it even works

 

[Sujit]

I find the Denon prices in India is more or less comparable with the prices in HK/Abroad. Got a quote - over phone - of 36 for the 1909 with B&W and 29-30 for grey. There is a member here who picked it up for 28 in Hyderabad! Rather comparable to the rates in HK. The US prices of this is around 650 USD - INR 32,500/- Which means the Indian grey prices are actually cheaper than the US rates! Personally I will gladly pay the extra 3k in this case for the B&W!!

However its the Onkyo range that is overpriced here. For instance the Onkyo 606 is 340 USD (at reputed stores like B&H) - which is around 17000/-. I got a quote of 39,750/- with B&W here!!

My friend picked up a Yamaha amp from Hong Kong, and lugged it all the way back to Bangalore - only to find that the local Bangalore 'National Market' price for the same was actually 500 bucks cheaper!! Our grey market is very very very competitive!

 

[raman340]

I think Its a good idea to review as much as you can. I have reviewed from the times when we had 2308 (almost a year back). Now, finally grabbed my 1909 on Saturday. Black one!! Its ultra Chick!!! Ultra value for money....

 

[raman340]

I Got a quote - over phone - of 36 for the 1909 with B&W and 29-30 for grey. Personally I will gladly pay the extra 3k in this case for the B&W!!

I think you should go for it. I spent a little extra, 39K with CC 2% inclusive.
But I am glad because Delhi prices are higher. Plus a lot depends on the stock. (I don't know if its a Mktg thing about dollar-INR variation). But I wouldn't mind cause I was getting at 41 from ProFx. I also got a quote for 31K in the grey. But I avoided the grey route.