Trying to make sense of preowned audio gear prices in India

[dafreaking]

It truly is the wild wild west and pricing things to sell seems to be an art in itself.
I always find the pricing of pre-owned receivers are more a reflection of the fact that prices for new items have gone up. Also receivers are things that definitely get outdated because of newer video connections and technology, not to mention the fact that HDMI ports in general are usually the first things that go bad in almost any device.

 

[rwnano]

It truly is the wild wild west and pricing things to sell seems to be an art in itself.
I always find the pricing of pre-owned receivers are more a reflection of the fact that prices for new items have gone up. Also receivers are things that definitely get outdated because of newer video connections and technology, not to mention the fact that HDMI ports in general are usually the first things that go bad in almost any device.

Interesting I find my old 2004-2005 circa, non HDMI receivers, to be EXCELLENT for music: I use Harman Kardon AVR 240
why?
1. Harman Kardon receivers have high quality electrical components and that seems to be a greater indicator of sound quality.
2. Old receivers haven't spent massive amount of USD budget on paying license fees for Dolby Digital and ARC, and Atmos and other digital processing technology. Thus the budget has gone into decent power supplies and Capacitors rather than digital processing tech.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Interesting I find my old 2004-2005 circa, non HDMI receivers, to be EXCELLENT for music: I use Harman Kardon AVR 240
why?
1. Harman Kardon receivers have high quality electrical components and that seems to be a greater indicator of sound quality.
2. Old receivers haven't spent massive amount of USD budget on paying license fees for Dolby Digital and ARC, and Atmos and other digital processing technology. Thus the budget has gone into decent power supplies and Capacitors rather than digital processing tech.

Infact Harman had very good stereo amps after that too : https://www.stereophile.com/content/harman-kardon-hk-990-integrated-amplifier

Now their focus has shifted to soundbars (Samsung/jbl)and Bluetooth speakers(mainly jbl).

Recently I came across this video

Now we know why their soundbars are quite good. I am quite used to decent speakers at home. But I was surprised how well even the cheapest q series soundbar sound in terms of tonality.

 

[IndianEars]

That lab does not look like a $ 100,000,000 investment.....

 

[rwnano]

Infact Harman had very good stereo amps after that too : https://www.stereophile.com/content/harman-kardon-hk-990-integrated-amplifier

Now their focus has shifted to soundbars (Samsung/jbl)and Bluetooth speakers(mainly jbl).

For all its bells and whistles, the HK 990 is a stereo amplifier and must be judged as such. With either the Sony XA-5400ES or Oppo BDP-95 connected to its balanced XLR analog input and the input mode set to Direct Path, the sound coming out of the Aerials was uncompromised. The bass in Pipes Rhode Island (CD, Riago 101), a compilation of pipe-organ recordings engineered by our own John Marks, was clean and taut and loaded the room well. Inner voices were exquisitely delineated. With the divine Lorraine Hunt Lieberson singing Neruda Songs, composed for her by her husband, Peter Lieberson (CD, Nonesuch 79954-2), there was an eerie sense of a lively, balanced presence to her voice and a good presentation of the Boston Symphony (led by James Levine) in their home venue, Boston's Symphony Hall. The power—for example, with Messiaen's brilliant and massive Turangalîla-Symphonie, in the recording by Hans Vonk and the St. Louis Symphony (SACD/CD, Arch Media Archives/Pentatone PTC 5186 320)—was almost staggering. The same was true with Dead Can Dance's Into the Labyrinth (CD, 4AD 45384-2): the HK 990's impressive bass imposed no limitations, either on more delicate instrumentals or on Lisa Gerrard's soaring melisma. The sound from the same source components via the H/K's unbalanced analog RCA inputs was marginally less secure but not disappointing. I listened to a wide range of other recordings, and the HK 990 offered eminently satisfying performance through the Aerial and the B&W speakers. If I could settle for listening to music in only two channels, I could live happily with the HK 990.



Description: Solid-state two-channel integrated amplifier with analog/digital inputs, tone controls, bass management, and system equalization. Line-level analog inputs: 6 pairs single-ended (RCA), 1 pair balanced (XLR), processor HT bypass (RCA), 2 subwoofer (RCA). Phono inputs: 1 moving-magnet, 1 moving-coil. Digital inputs: 2 optical, 2 coax, 1 HRS. Line-level analog outputs: 2 L/R, 2 subwoofer. Digital outputs: 2 coax. Output power: 150Wpc into 8 ohms (21.75dBW), 300Wpc into 4 ohms (21.75dBW). Line-level input sensitivity: 350mV. Line-level input impedance: 43k ohms. Phono input sensitivity: 10mV (MM), 1mV (MC). Phono input impedance: 47k ohms (MM), 100 ohms (MC). Frequency response: 10Hz–170kHz, +0/–3dB at 1W; 20Hz–100kHz at half power. Signal/noise ratio: 109dB (line), 75dB (MC), IHF-A (–3dB). THD, both channels driven: <0.03%, 20Hz–20kHz, at 150Wpc (8 ohms); <0.3%, 20Hz–20kHz, at 300Wpc (4 ohms).
Dimensions: 17 5/16" (440mm) W by 6.5" (165mm) H by 17 1/8" (435mm) D. Weight: 43.1 lbs (19.6kg).

 

[Yeraditya]

In India there are several problems.

1. The people who have the money, dont spend on Audio.Those who want to spend dont have the money. This creates a two fold chasm - semi aware user being taken for a ride by dealers, audiophile friends who can only aspire for those brands but want to get a pie of the purchase “feels”. This leads us to believe that the market is here to fleece the user. As such its a problem that is getting aggrevated because India is very low on Per Capita Income.
2. India is extremely price consious society, its is not quality consious society. Atleast at this moment. So consumers will try to get a “deal” and everyone in the second hand market trying to sell at deeply discounted prices is mostly doing it for the gullible consumers. The real second hand market needs seller trust markers. When seller trust exists you dont need to list your products online randomly.
3. As much as the seller is trying to fleece the buyer, the buyer in Indian market never wants to pay fair market price. Hoping that the seller will distress sell. This is a cycle that is specific to india given the arbitrage of poorly performing currency, low income levels. This is the reason why seller buyer trust does not happen in India. Genuine seller faces middle men trying to buy at a very cheap prices. Real buyer finds good products, but more often than not is being taken for a ride.

Overall, as a buyer it makes sense to verify, demo and buy and pay reasonably. Dont try and bleed the seller as you will have to do the same later. Do not buy any products without references. Overall you have to tread with caution. Read about the product history, where are the sellers located(Kerela, Chennai, Gujarat for example need more care may be) and if possible visit and examine the product, if you dont have references. With references, you could possibly commit more easily.

 

[keith_correa]

In India there are several problems.

1. The people who have the money, dont spend on Audio.Those who want to spend dont have the money. This creates a two fold chasm - semi aware user being taken for a ride by dealers, audiophile friends who can only aspire for those brands but want to get a pie of the purchase “feels”. This leads us to believe that the market is here to fleece the user. As such its a problem that is getting aggrevated because India is very low on Per Capita Income.
2. India is extremely price consious society, its is not quality consious society. Atleast at this moment. So consumers will try to get a “deal” and everyone in the second hand market trying to sell at deeply discounted prices is mostly doing it for the gullible consumers. The real second hand market needs seller trust markers. When seller trust exists you dont need to list your products online randomly.
3. As much as the seller is trying to fleece the buyer, the buyer in Indian market never wants to pay fair market price. Hoping that the seller will distress sell. This is a cycle that is specific to india given the arbitrage of poorly performing currency, low income levels. This is the reason why seller buyer trust does not happen in India. Genuine seller faces middle men trying to buy at a very cheap prices. Real buyer finds good products, but more often than not is being taken for a ride.

Overall, as a buyer it makes sense to verify, demo and buy and pay reasonably. Dont try and bleed the seller as you will have to do the same later. Do not buy any products without references. Overall you have to tread with caution. Read about the product history, where are the sellers located(Kerela, Chennai, Gujarat for example need more care may be) and if possible visit and examine the product, if you dont have references. With references, you could possibly commit more easily.

I think you covered almost everything. Except maybe world hunger!

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Apart from the new kid on the block "digital", there is no ground breaking innovation happening anywhere else. A great speaker or amp from the last decade is still a great piece of kit today. It is ridiculous how much more one has to pay buying new for the same quality. So it can be expected that older gear pricing will also reflect this inflation. Its not like someone selling his kit is retiring from audio. We sell to upgrade, atleast most of us on the forums do. And why sell high quality at peanuts, if we have to pay a kings ransom for the next box of similar quality.

This trend of appreciation in value of pre-owned watches, boats and bikes is not uncommon. So with the current hike in pricing of new audio gear, the crazy looking pricing of used gear is bound to continue.