Argument against placement of HIFI rack / equipment / TV between the speakers

[raghupb]

Thanks, but my question was slightly different: Does an XLR cable connected to an SE terminal via an adapter overcome the limitation on cable length? I think you are suggesting that it does.

Regards

Possibly. Not sure if you'll get the noise reduction/rejection stuff
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[shyamv]

Hi,

I too prefer a low height horizontal rack like Sachin. Pulling the speakers out into the room can affect the sound in unpredictable ways and it may not be a great idea to pull them out too much, because the rear wall and side wall reflections are also affected.

I have a lightweight glass-wool panel that I place between the speakers and i front of the rack when I'm critically listening. It has a massive impact and the imaging gets super crisp, the panel almost sounding like a centre speaker! (In fact I fooled someone to believe that there was a driver inside the panel ). Changing the position of this panel or adding more panels invariably impacts the imaging. For casual listening and when I have non-audio guests, I simple remove the panel so that the setup is socially acceptable. This is an inexpensive experiment worth trying.

The downside of this arrangement is that the remotes don't function with the panel coming in the way!

Pictures with and without the panel are attached.

View attachment 47895View attachment 47896

One my setups has less than ideal speaker placement. The idea of using a removable panel during critical listening sessions is interesting. Does glass wool have sound absorbing or sound diffusing properties? Is this a generic glass wool panel or a specialized acoustic panel? Appreciate your inputs.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Looks like there are folks who think otherwise:

Long or short cables? – PS Audio

www.psaudio.com

To be fair, the earlier article felt like a technical paper while this seems more like an experience narration. But I take it that the jury is still out on the subject.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

One my setups has less than ideal speaker placement. The idea of using a removable panel during critical listening sessions is interesting. Does glass wool have sound absorbing or sound diffusing properties? Is this a generic glass wool panel or a specialized acoustic panel? Appreciate your inputs.

I made Acoustic panels and bass traps from a Knauf Ecose glass wool roll 48kg/m3 from Aural Exchange. They act as absorbers not diffusers.

Best wishes

 

[prem]

If you’re using balanced cables, then go with long ic and short speaker cables. If using unbalanced shielded ic then go long ic and short speaker cables and if going unbalanced unshielded ic go short ic and long speaker cables. In 3rd case when going long speaker cables make sure they are of sufficient gauge so that resistance and losses are minimised

 

[Fiftyfifty]

If you’re using balanced cables, then go with long ic and short speaker cables. If using unbalanced shielded ic then go long ic and short speaker cables and if going unbalanced unshielded ic go short ic and long speaker cables. In 3rd case when going long speaker cables make sure they are of sufficient gauge so that resistance and losses are minimised

Makes perfect sense!

 

[newlash09]

To me, it is evident that the rack between the speakers is best avoided. My question, therefore, is whether it is better to have a longer speaker cable or a longer interconnect. What would be the maximum length of a 14 awg speaker cable, an unbalanced IC and a balanced IC, without noticeably degrading sq?

Thanks

I've been reliably told that as short as possible a speaker cable is the best way to go. Even in the audio show pics, we always find the amp sitting close to the speaker. So long interconnects and short speaker cables is the way to go.

 

[fLUX]

I have made some rearrangements in the room , i have got a study rack removed which was on the front. Now i have the following options infront of me
i) Move the Glass Rack towards the backside of the room, this would mean cables of length of 15-20 feet atleast for the fronts. This would also mean i need to spend minimum of 5-6k for 12/14 AWG cables if i go for Amazon Basic (13-14k for 100 meter spool of cable from DAC/TONO) Other advantage being i get the entire front wall to move the sub optimally and no glass near the sub means lower immediate vibration.
ii) Keep the glass rack in the front in between the speakers which would ensure a shorter cable. Keep the sub besides the rack or move it along the side wall or backside.

Which amongst these 2 would be a better option, i did some trial for the sub and found it to be better along the front wall.

 

[robin3989]

I have made some rearrangements in the room , i have got a study rack removed which was on the front. Now i have the following options infront of me
i) Move the Glass Rack towards the backside of the room, this would mean cables of length of 15-20 feet atleast for the fronts. This would also mean i need to spend minimum of 5-6k for 12/14 AWG cables if i go for Amazon Basic (13-14k for 100 meter spool of cable from DAC/TONO) Other advantage being i get the entire front wall to move the sub optimally and no glass near the sub means lower immediate vibration.
ii) Keep the glass rack in the front in between the speakers which would ensure a shorter cable. Keep the sub besides the rack or move it along the side wall or backside.

Which amongst these 2 would be a better option, i did some trial for the sub and found it to be better along the front wall.

Based on the info provided, my choice would be - Option 1
But a picture showing the glass rack in question, your speaker and sub placement will better explain the problem.

My opinion - I would move away anything between and behind the speakers, unless its a sound absorbing material or bass trap. I value deep holographic imaging, spacing between instruments, height and width of the soundstage. That's me, and you have to decide based on your preferences. Some of my friends like dynamic and forward presentation, so the placement doesn't matter much.
I use cheap thick toughened glass with 4inch stainless steel spacers to keep all the electronics off the floor. If the listening chain has minimal electronics, its easy to manage.

 

[fLUX]

@robin3989
Here are some pics of the current arrangement. I would be ordering a center stand for the center channel so the small makeshift table would go away if I dont keep the rack in between.

 

[robin3989]

@robin3989
Here are some pics of the current arrangement. I would be ordering a center stand for the center channel so the small makeshift table would go away if I dont keep the rack in between.

Recently moved to a new house and just setup the listening area last night. I don't have a rack, electronics are placed on custom cut hardened glasses. As my source is Rpi based transport, i control everything sitting on the listening chair.



So, if you get a dedicated stand for center channel, find a spot for the subwoofer between the fronts/center. If you still have space for electronics, keep the rack as short as possible.

 

[quad]

This would still be a hack. Balanced and XLR are commonly confused.
XLR is an interconnect that allows long runs by providing +/- and ground for each channel.
This shields signal from picking up stray noise too, and they are more robust mechanically.

A balanced design is where shared circuitry between L/R is kept to a minimal.
Monoblocks are inherently balanced. In some preamps/dacs, care is take to have them separated as far as possible.
Sometimes with dual PS and/or dual PCBs; also the topology of layout is similar or mirror images, etc.
Summation to single ended is an option to provide RCA connections, but the true signal path would be from native circuit.

In case of a balanced system, the ideal way to interconnect is XLR.
So it is tricky when building a truly balanced system; and involves significant costs.

Cheers,
Raghu

Raghu, there are a lot of misconceptions in your post above - you should
probably go over the article on Rod Elliott's site, but that is math heavy.
Maybe this one is an easier read -

http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

 

[raghupb]

Raghu, there are a lot of misconceptions in your post above - you should
probably go over the article on Rod Elliott's site, but that is math heavy.
Maybe this one is an easier read -

http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

Thanks for the articles and links. Will read up and refresh my understanding.
Maybe audio guys do it differently (or is it differentially )
I don't have experience in audio circuit design.

I was heavy into designing high speed "vanilla" & differential circuits (MHz/GHz range).
The math/physics and TL theory applied to circuit design have not changed much.
But, then it is good to re-educate oneself.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[quad]

cool - you are an EE - then you can read the original link below - quoting from that page -

A good, accurate definition is "A balanced circuit is a two-conductor circuit in which both conductors and all circuits connected to them have the same impedance with respect to ground and to all other conductors. The purpose of balancing is to make the noise pickup equal in both conductors, in which case it will be a common-mode signal which can be made to cancel out in the load."

https://sound-au.com/articles/balanced-2.htm

L/R crosstalk/interferene avoidance may be an added side effect of using separate 3 conductor cables for L and R channels.