Audyssey MultEQ Editor and Stereo Playback (Plus Anthem Room Correction)

[superczar]

I recently swapped out a Marantz 6010 with a Denon x3500.

TL;DR - If you have any Denon/ Marantz receiver that you may have purchased 2016/17 onwards, rush to App Store/ Play store to get this App without thinking twice

If you want the gory detaills , read on->
Now my biggest problem with Audyssey Room correction was this - while it does a great job at equalizing movie tracks, it would always mess up the music playback . My workaround for this was to switch to direct mode for stereo (thereby disabling Audyssey) while keeping it on for movies.

Unfortunately, one of the best things I like about audyssey is this:
A real room has limitations - That affects mostly the bass response - In my case, I had acceptable but noticeable boominess.
Also for late night listening, while direct mode sounds great at reference or near reference volumes, you do lose a lot of detail at regular listening levels like -30 to 35db.
Dynamic vol and EQ improved the experience greatly but at the cost of messed up imaging/ loss of speaker character
Disabling Audyssey = loss of both improvements


I was stoked to learn that the new Denons/ Marantzes allow for editing the correction curves via a smartphone app - So here goes nothing:

What I did was this - I changed the correction threshold for the fronts to my room schroeder frequency (200 hz), kept the center threshold to 500 hz while leaving the surrounds undisturbed

The result is , and forgive me for the hyperbole, beautiful!

Here are some screenshots for those who are more interested - The speakers are Focal Aria 926 connected to a Marantz PM17 Integrated. (The Denon X3500 pre-out goes to the Amp)

Front L/R frequency response - Audyssey
Notice the oddities under 200hz - That's the room playing havoc under the schroeder point)
and corrected response (notice how well Audyssey flattens the response - if that's what you would like)
Do note that the famous/infamous BBC dip at 2K is manually disabled on the correction curve




Front L/R frequency response - Anthem

Same speakers measured with an Anthem Preamp hooked to the Integrated - The measurements are almost entirely same but the correction curve is very different



Correction Threshold changed to 224hz (Room schroeder)



Results in this -



Net Impact - Much Improved bass response with no loss of speaker character (or sound signature as most prefer to call it) or imaging
Added bonus - Ability to enable Dynamic Vol for late evening listening sessions


And if you are interested in how the surrounds look after correction



Net Takeaway - With the Editor App, I think Audyssey (esp XT32 ) is as good as ARC.
I do not have a Dirac processor ot AVR to compare against but I guess the results should be easily comparable

 

[buxx]

Thats such a flat curve !!!!

With regards to what you did - I am not that savvy with EQ, but guess you mean that you stopped Audyssey from applying any EQ after 200Hz?

Could I request you to also post test results with Spectroid App/Phone?
Also , in your AVR menu, you can also see the Reference curve & the EQ that Audyssey has made.. is it possible to post a pic of that too ?

I was checking my Front Speakers (post calibration) with Audyssey Reference Curve applied - it is nowhere near as flat as yours ! There are dips in multiple frequency points to the extent of 5-10 dBs.

I am testing with Phone Mic and Spectroid App. I just played a standard 20Hz- 20K Hz test tone from the internet (speaker manufacturer website)

 

[superczar]

Thats such a flat curve !!!!

With regards to what you did - I am not that savvy with EQ, but guess you mean that you stopped Audyssey from applying any EQ after 200Hz?

That's correct - Every speaker has its own coloration by design.. which is also the reason why studio monitors (which are designed to be flat) are not very popular for personal audio playback
Trying to flatten the designed curve across the entire spectrum may be counterproductive
However flattening it till the room schroeder frequency fixes bass reverberation issues yet retains the speaker character

Could I request you to also post test results with Spectroid App/Phone?
Also , in your AVR menu, you can also see the Reference curve & the EQ that Audyssey has made.. is it possible to post a pic of that too ?

I was checking my Front Speakers (post calibration) with Audyssey Reference Curve applied - it is nowhere near as flat as yours ! There are dips in multiple frequency points to the extent of 5-10 dBs.

I am testing with Phone Mic and Spectroid App. I just played a standard 20Hz- 20K Hz test tone from the internet (speaker manufacturer website)

Will do - As the phone mic may not yield accurate results, I will use ARC genesis with its calibrated mic - will do later tonight when the noise floor is lower

 

[Love4sound]

How did you arrive at the values 200 for fronts and 500 for center will sound best. Just curious as i also use the app but never tried changing the curve. Also do you have the 3500 or 3600? signature says 3600

 

[Marakk]

From what I have read, the results shown by Audyssey's app aren't accurate. Verifying results with REW gives this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

 

[superczar]

How did you arrive at the values 200 for fronts and 500 for center will sound best. Just curious as i also use the app but never tried changing the curve. Also do you have the 3500 or 3600? signature says 3600

200 is computed using Anthem ARC Genesis 2


And yes, it's a 3500 - the sig had a typo

From what I have read, the results shown by Audyssey's app aren't accurate. Verifying results with REW gives this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

The results shows are the expected response, The actual response is what I will measure tonight.
To my untrained ears though, the result sounds as good as Anthem so kind of pointless to expect more

However , I have used a cutoff of 200 so expected curve is the 5th screenshot above and not the 1st

 

[Love4sound]

200 is computed using Anthem ARC Genesis 2

View attachment 45717
And yes, it's a 3500 - the sig had a typo



The results shows are the expected response, The actual response is what I will measure tonight.
To my untrained ears though, the result sounds as good as Anthem so kind of pointless to expect more

However , I have used a cutoff of 200 so expected curve is the 5th screenshot above and not the 1st

Ok so it should differ for rooms and speakers or can I try the same values

 

[superczar]

From what I have read, the results shown by Audyssey's app aren't accurate. Verifying results with REW gives this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

That article made me curious so I decided to test it - with the caveat that the noise floor at this time of the day is a lot higher than ideal.
The result - I'd say far better than Amir at ASR got



Details:
- Full range correction curve uploaded to AVR
- Anthem Pre-amp o/p hooked to AVR pre-in, AVR pre-out to Integrated Amp
- 5 test sweeps performed
- Couple of Aircon generated vibrations and a little bit of external noise also would have been captured by the ARC genesis microphone

 

[Marakk]

That article made me curious so I decided to test it - with the caveat that the noise floor at this time of the day is a lot higher than ideal.
The result - I'd say far better than Amir at ASR got

View attachment 45718

Details:
- Full range correction curve uploaded to AVR
- Anthem Pre-amp o/p hooked to AVR pre-in, AVR pre-out to Integrated Amp
- 5 test sweeps performed
- Couple of Aircon generated vibrations and a little bit of external noise also would have been captured by the ARC genesis microphone

Now that indeed is much better than his result.

 

[Love4sound]

So I tried with the same values. There are certain things I really liked and some I don’t. First is it totally removed the brightness from the front stage which is a very good thing. Recently with few changes in my room I found the front stage to be very bright and sharp. What I don’t like is with the brightness removed the front stage is not loud enough but can be corrected by increasing the master volume. It does affect the centre channel big time as the dialogues aren’t loud as before.Now this can be due to the wrong values I have set cause 200 and 500 values u got from measurement which can be wrong in my set up. So how can I find the right values for my set up for the front and centre. Over all I think with the changes suggested the sound stage is way better.

 

[RajithKumar]

Nice to see the experiments . Based on my experience,I have crosschecked Audyssey with REW using a calibrated UMIK. what I have found was the Audyssey results are not accurate.
IMO I have listed some of +ve & -ve of Audyssey as follows
+ve of Audyssey

• Very user friendly
• XT32 bass Management is very good .
• Dynamic EQ is great function for those listens at lesser Volumes (say -20 to -10 db)

-ve of Audyssey

• Mostly hit or miss.
• Not so accurate
• Greatly depends upon the correct placements of speakers
• Always manual tweaking is required after Audyssey to achieve ur desired results.
• Audyssey App which is paid app is buggy sometimes. They also should have added some help files for adjustments of curve which will be a great help for beginners.

I have not used ARC ,but it is regarded as one of Top end calibration like DIRAC in home cinema.

Hope FMs will share more about their experiences.

 

[superczar]

So I tried with the same values. There are certain things I really liked and some I don’t. First is it totally removed the brightness from the front stage which is a very good thing. Recently with few changes in my room I found the front stage to be very bright and sharp. What I don’t like is with the brightness removed the front stage is not loud enough but can be corrected by increasing the master volume. It does affect the centre channel big time as the dialogues aren’t loud as before.Now this can be due to the wrong values I have set cause 200 and 500 values u got from measurement which can be wrong in my set up. So how can I find the right values for my set up for the front and centre. Over all I think with the changes suggested the sound stage is way better.

Don't use the values I used

The values are going to be unique to each setup. In my case:

a) My front x-over is set quite low (40hz) and the speakers have a decent bass extension. The mids and highs on my fronts are quite good as-is hence the decision to limit correction to only the point where standing waves create an issue (200hz for my room)

b) For centers, I would suggest simply disabling the mid-range correction (shows as a dip on the target curve around 2khz) to improve the vocals - leave the correction threshold as-is

Also, I'd suggest testing the fronts correction with a stereo track playback first.
The audio should feel subjectively better than direct mode while the imaging should be as good as direct - if the vocals don't appear to be coming right from your centre speakers both with and without audyssey, something else is wrong...

Try these tracks to test in order of difficulty - first in direct mode to make sure they sound as expected and then with audyssey to see if you can hear a subjective improvement

1) A quiet Life - by Taha Teardo : The vocals will be dead center even in somewhat unbalanced setups. If this track gives you a problem, something is really off
2) Paint it black - By Ciara : Great Cover of the original - A little more diificult to get right on an improperly balanced setup. The vocals start at ~0:25 - and the deep breath from the singer here should almost startle you
3) I'm easy to find - By The National - Probably my all time fave testing track. If 1 and 2 sound right in direct mode, listen to this and then you will know what to look for with audyssey engaged

 

[superczar]

So I tried with the same values. There are certain things I really liked and some I don’t. First is it totally removed the brightness from the front stage which is a very good thing. Recently with few changes in my room I found the front stage to be very bright and sharp. What I don’t like is with the brightness removed the front stage is not loud enough but can be corrected by increasing the master volume. It does affect the centre channel big time as the dialogues aren’t loud as before.Now this can be due to the wrong values I have set cause 200 and 500 values u got from measurement which can be wrong in my set up. So how can I find the right values for my set up for the front and centre. Over all I think with the changes suggested the sound stage is way better.

Don't use the values I used

The values are going to be unique to each setup. In my case:

a) My front x-over is set quite low (40hz) and the speakers have a decent bass extension. The mids and highs on my fronts are quite good as-is hence the decision to limit correction to only the point where standing waves create an issue (200hz for my room)

b) For centers, I would suggest simply disabling the mid-range correction (shows as a dip on the target curve around 2khz) to improve the vocals - leave the correction threshold as-is

Also, I'd suggest testing the fronts correction with a stereo track playback first.
The audio should feel subjectively better than direct mode while the imaging should be as good as direct - if the vocals don't appear to be coming right from your centre speakers both with and without audyssey, something else is wrong...

Try these tracks to test in order of difficulty - first in direct mode to make sure they sound as expected and then with audyssey to see if you can hear a subjective improvement

1) A quiet Life - by Taha Teardo : The vocals will be dead center even in somewhat unbalanced setups. If this track gives you a problem, something is really off
2) Paint it black - By Ciara : Great Cover of the original - A little more diificult to get right on an improperly balanced setup. The vocals start at ~0:25 - and the deep breath from the singer here should almost startle you
3) I'm easy to find - By The National - Probably my all time fave testing track. If 1 and 2 sound right in direct mode, listen to this and then you will know what to look for with audyssey engaged

Once you get your fronts right in stereo, move on to tweaking the center

Nice to see the experiments . Based on my experience,I have crosschecked Audyssey with REW using a calibrated UMIK. what I have found was the Audyssey results are not accurate.
IMO I have listed some of +ve & -ve of Audyssey as follows
+ve of Audyssey

• Very user friendly
• XT32 bass Management is very good .
• Dynamic EQ is great function for those listens at lesser Volumes (say -20 to -10 db)

-ve of Audyssey

• Mostly hit or miss.
• Not so accurate
• Greatly depends upon the correct placements of speakers
• Always manual tweaking is required after Audyssey to achieve ur desired results.
• Audyssey App which is paid app is buggy sometimes. They also should have added some help files for adjustments of curve which will be a great help for beginners.

I have not used ARC ,but it is regarded as one of Top end calibration like DIRAC in home cinema.

Hope FMs will share more about their experiences.

Completely agree on bass management and DEQ - although at really low levels, Dyn vol at light can also do wonders
Not sure of the inaccuracy aspect you mentioned though - The independent reverse corroboration in post #8 above actually does show that it can be quite accurate if done right.

 

[Love4sound]

Don't use the values I used

The values are going to be unique to each setup. In my case:

a) My front x-over is set quite low (40hz) and the speakers have a decent bass extension. The mids and highs on my fronts are quite good as-is hence the decision to limit correction to only the point where standing waves create an issue (200hz for my room)

b) For centers, I would suggest simply disabling the mid-range correction (shows as a dip on the target curve around 2khz) to improve the vocals - leave the correction threshold as-is

Also, I'd suggest testing the fronts correction with a stereo track playback first.
The audio should feel subjectively better than direct mode while the imaging should be as good as direct - if the vocals don't appear to be coming right from your centre speakers both with and without audyssey, something else is wrong...

Try these tracks to test in order of difficulty - first in direct mode to make sure they sound as expected and then with audyssey to see if you can hear a subjective improvement

1) A quiet Life - by Taha Teardo : The vocals will be dead center even in somewhat unbalanced setups. If this track gives you a problem, something is really off
2) Paint it black - By Ciara : Great Cover of the original - A little more diificult to get right on an improperly balanced setup. The vocals start at ~0:25 - and the deep breath from the singer here should almost startle you
3) I'm easy to find - By The National - Probably my all time fave testing track. If 1 and 2 sound right in direct mode, listen to this and then you will know what to look for with audyssey engaged

I always disable mid range for all channels.

 

[Nitin K]

I always disable mid range for all channels.

Same here, prefer midrange compensation off for all channels

 

[sijusid]

Audyssey app is a good tool and everyone who can should try it. As a minimum, it acts as a backup of our calibration.

The output curve of audyssey is what the audyssey is expecting the speakers would behave after the filters is applied. The output curve is usually smoothened out for better viewing.

Actual frequency response at mlp can be better known by rew with a calibrated mic. If we apply too much smoothening to rew curve, the end result may be quite similar to audyssey.

Whatever said, audyssey app gives us freedom to tweak our system by making trial runs and then choosing one which works best. Limiting the frequency upto which filters are applied is one way. Mine is set to around 4k for all my speakers, after many trials and one which my ears liked. From my experience, this cut off can be anywhere between 250hz and 5khz, depending on room, speakers and most importantly, the sound signature one likes.

app can also be used to put a house curve on subwoofer, which I do and I have stopped using deq after that, as deq also boosts highs and surround channels, which I did not like personally.

Cheers
Siju