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[reignofchaos]

Yep beyond a point it is all about synergy, flavor and what one likes to hear.

 

[sidvee]

It is time our 'esteemed' members make recommendations from their personal experience than what is 'hear say'

Well said Capt. To put things in perspective here is a comparison review of the Bel Canto Pre3 preamp to the Audio Research LS26 preamp from a popular review site which claims to be quite independent.
Well I owned both these preamps., and listened to them extensively and in no way, shape or form did the bel canto top the Audio Research as indicated in the review. The pricing btw is bel canto $1700 and Audio Research $6500. So as much as I wished that the bel canto that cost apprx. 1/4th of the price of the ARC win this shootout it just didn't happen. BTW this comparison was much bandied about in forums etc. and lot of arguments ensued, but the fact of the matter is to my ears the ARC sounded superior. So personal experience is paramount rather than views & reviews.

Audio Research LS26, Bel Canto PRe3 and McIntosh C220 Preamplifiers on 10 Audio

Ps: The bel canto is a very nice pre in its own right. That is why I bought it in the first place.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[captrajesh]

personal experience is paramount rather than views & reviews.

Absolutely. Not infrequently, these reviews are written with an ulterior motive.

 

[sidvee]

AudiogoN Forums: Sunroom System
Btw a link to somewhat of a comparison between the SL Kraft 250 and the plinius range. Albeit the monoblocks. Cannot afford them unfortunately.:sad:
Cheers,
Sid

 

[rikhav]

Hi Sid
Congrats on your new amp

Does this amp also needs about an hour or two before it comes to its true character liker the Stratos/Kismet?

How long you keep the amp on before critical listening?

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sid
Congrats on your new amp

Does this amp also needs about an hour or two before it comes to its true character liker the Stratos/Kismet?

How long you keep the amp on before critical listening?

Thanks Rikhav. At least to my novice ears that seems to be the case with the Odyssey/Symphonic line range - about an hour warm up. Just my humble observations - nothing scientific, just impressions of a simple listener.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Asit]

Wow! A SL Kraft. Fantastisch!!!

How could I have missed this information, probably because it is hiding underneath a "Back to Tubes" thread.

Hearty congratulations, Sid. It would be very interesting to hear from you about the matching of the Harbeth SHL5s with this amp. I have not read about this combination, neither have I ever heard a SL amp or SHL5s (have only heard an Odyssey Kismet which I rate very highly, but a Kraft should be on a different planet, and Compact 7s which imo are very very musical but for me a little too sweet and withdrawn).

An hour or two of warm-up is very usual for many amps. SL probably recommends powering on the amp all the time, but with the quality of power supply in India I wouldn't do it. (OT: After doing a lot of search for a phono stage, I have finally decided to get the Graham Slee Reflex M, just waiting to get a little bit of breath back after a lot of spending recently on household matters, but Mr. Slee also recommends that his phono be powered on at all times at least during the break-in period. I have no idea how to do that in India. BTW, Sid, here is my very humble set-up in my new apartment http://www.hifivision.com/my-audio-video-setup/31476-now-whoz.html. I have not fine-tuned the set-up yet).

Regards.

 

[sidvee]

Hearty congratulations, Sid. It would be very interesting to hear from you about the matching of the Harbeth SHL5s with this amp. I have not read about this combination.

Thank you kindly Asit. I will try to summarize my opinions of this combination. My reference point for this combo. was the use of the Symphonic line Rg7. The Rg7 was simply superb with the Harbeths, but one thing I felt that it was not controlling the 8" woofer to the level I would have wanted it to, which was compromising ever so slightly on bass extension. Though the SHL5 is of above average sensitivity at 91db, its impedence drops to 5 ohms and below at the bass frequencies (precisely where I felt the minor shortcomings of the rg7), so I got thinking that more power injected here would be better. With no desire to move away from the SL house sound I figured that upgrading to the kraft was the best (albeit expensive) option. At this point I would also like to point out that the widely held belief is that the Shl5 is immune to upstream components, and in my initial audition of 2-3 hours I felt the same, but it does respond very well indeed to good electronics and in doing so transforms from very good to exceptional. That is precisely what has happened now. The presentation is so relaxed that a 2 hour session (with brass instruments) is no longer fatiguing or tiresome at all, an experience I have never had before and the kraft is the proverbial iron fist in a velvet glove. Though it is still breaking in, glimpses of how well it can control the 8" woofer is clearly evident. Plus what dynamic swings both macro and micro. I have never heard the shl5's sing like this. Lastly the stage is futher extended well beyoond and above the speakers and there is absolutely no grit or grain in the sound.

An hour or two of warm-up is very usual for many amps. SL probably recommends powering on the amp all the time, but with the quality of power supply in India I wouldn't do it.

You are absolutely right Asit, no way to keep the amp. on at all times.

but Mr. Slee also recommends that his phono be powered on at all times at least during the break-in period. I have no idea how to do that in India.

Well my compromise with the kraft is to turn it on an hour before any critical listening takes place.

BTW, Sid, here is my very humble set-up in my new apartment http://www.hifivision.com/my-audio-video-setup/31476-now-whoz.html. I have not fine-tuned the set-up yet).

Very nice Asit. I like the equipment rack a lot, and the bookshelf adds a classy feel to the listening room, though if you had foregone the doors the books and the shelf would have made for a nice diffuser to first reflections, but dust on books would become a cleaning nightmare.


Cheers,
Sid

 

[Asit]

Thank you kindly Asit. I will try to summarize my opinions of this combination. My reference point for this combo. was the use of the Symphonic line Rg7. The Rg7 was simply superb with the Harbeths, but one thing I felt that it was not controlling the 8" woofer to the level I would have wanted it to, which was compromising ever so slightly on bass extension. Though the SHL5 is of above average sensitivity at 91db, its impedence drops to 5 ohms and below at the bass frequencies (precisely where I felt the minor shortcomings of the rg7), so I got thinking that more power injected here would be better. With no desire to move away from the SL house sound I figured that upgrading to the kraft was the best (albeit expensive) option. At this point I would also like to point out that the widely held belief is that the Shl5 is immune to upstream components, and in my initial audition of 2-3 hours I felt the same, but it does respond very well indeed to good electronics and in doing so transforms from very good to exceptional. That is precisely what has happened now. The presentation is so relaxed that a 2 hour session (with brass instruments) is no longer fatiguing or tiresome at all, an experience I have never had before and the kraft is the proverbial iron fist in a velvet glove. Though it is still breaking in, glimpses of how well it can control the 8" woofer is clearly evident. Plus what dynamic swings both macro and micro. I have never heard the shl5's sing like this. Lastly the stage is futher extended well beyoond and above the speakers and there is absolutely no grit or grain in the sound.




You are absolutely right Asit, no way to keep the amp. on at all times.


Well my compromise with the kraft is to turn it on an hour before any critical listening takes place.



Very nice Asit. I like the equipment rack a lot, and the bookshelf adds a classy feel to the listening room, though if you had foregone the doors the books and the shelf would have made for a nice diffuser to first reflections, but dust on books would become a cleaning nightmare.


Cheers,
Sid

Well I know as a fact, from the net, that a lot of people have paired up their SHL5s with very high end amps with a great deal of satisfaction.

The equipment rack is made of good old solid wood (high quality teak). I just made sure that they are heavy enough, and I have made most of the equipments rest on the magic hexa feet. The only unusual thing about the racks (and with almost all furniture in my new place) is that Asian paints melamine finish has been spray painted to provide the finish. This is quite a bit more expensive than the usual polish, but we liked the melamine finish a lot. Even the entrance door to our apartment is now done that way).

Yes, I'd ideally have liked no doors for the bookshelf. But even if we are on the 13th floor, there is some dust that filters in and from my previous experience of living with a huge quantity of books all my life, keeping the books away from dust and worms is a nightmarish job, much more difficult than keeping CDs and LPs.

Regards.

 

[panditji]

Asit, where did you get the speaker stands from? They look very nice....also do they have a bigger top plate than the usual ones found in the market?

 

[sidvee]

My first serious hi-fi setup consisted of 2 bookshelves at the first reflection point, filled with books. IMO it worked very well as an acoustic treatment device and also a nice storage for my books. Fortunately this was in a Detroit suburb and once a week cleaning was adequate. Here it would have to be done daily.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[arj]

Though the SHL5 is of above average sensitivity at 91db, its impedence drops to 5 ohms and below at the bass frequencies (precisely where I felt the minor shortcomings of the rg7), so I got thinking that more power injected here would be better. With no desire to move away from the SL house sound I figured that upgrading to the kraft was the best (albeit expensive) option. ..

Congrats and Great going Sidvee. you may be on a very imp point above as very often have heard of Harbeths not being "fast" enough and being Euphonic.
It could just be the wrong synergy (like running with low powered tube amps).

 

[sidvee]

Congrats and Great going Sidvee. you may be in a very imp point above as very often have heard of Harbeths not being "fast" enough and being Euphonic.
It could just be the wrong synergy (like running with low powered tube amps).

Thanks Arj,
BTW when I sold my rg7, I was driving the SHl5's with my spare quicksilver mid-monoblock amps. (now sold) that I absolutely loved. Tell you what, in comparison to the rg7 (of-course not really a fair comparison as the rg7 costs 5-6 times more), I just couldn't go back to the quickies. Speed suffered and dynamics were restrained. These speakers need be spanked a bit and a healthy dollop of clean power (400 watts in my case) helps. Also the Malaysian dealer, Sam Chan from whom I bought these, was very skeptical of trying to drive them with tubes. He highly recommended a vintage current dumping quad design (i think it was the quad 405), prior to the quads being made in China, for the best synergy with the Harbeths. He is an expert with the Harbeths and now I realize what he was trying to say.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Asit]

Asit, where did you get the speaker stands from? They look very nice....also do they have a bigger top plate than the usual ones found in the market?

Thank you Panditji, but the compliments should really go to Sangram (ex-member Cranky and a friend of his) for firstly understanding my speakers (basically the cabinet design) so that they could conceive the stands, and then ultimately getting it built through the painstaking process of collecting the materials and unprofessional workmanship of this particular carpenter who gave it shape. Some of the details of the design have been discussed in my very-long amp thread.

I can very briefly mention some of the important points. As you know there cannot be one generic stand design for all speakers. For example, Harbeth needs the so-called lossy stands, and some of the skylan stands go nicely with Harbeths. In my case, these very old completely hand made Canton speakers needed stands which are absolutely dead acoustically. Hence the middle column is made of hundreds of small pieces of MDF (cut into french fry shape), and then pasted back together under high pressure, and finally finished with veneer on the outside. The bottom and the top plates are each made of two metal plates with an acrylic sheet sandwiched between. The spikes are also custom made (btw there are 3 spikes only per stand, as Sangram thinks this is a better design than one with 4) and height-adjustable for proper leveling. The spikes rest on metal feet underneath of which have felt-like material so that the stands do not slide across a smooth surface. The surface area of the top plate (trapezoidal in shape)is custom made for the dimensions of my speaker and is typically just a bit smaller than the bottom surface of my speaker, something which is usual. BTW, my speakers are each about 17-18 kg and the stands are close to 25 kg each. Making them heavy is one way of ensuring that all stray mechanical vibrations are damped and any remaining bulk vibration if any then can be transmitted through the spikes to mother earth, the ultimate sink. The point of making the MDF french fries and then joining them together was that, cohesive vibrations inside the vertical column would be almost non-existent. The choice of the material, i.e., MDF, already is a good starting point for not letting sub-column vibrations to act collectively.

Sorry for the OT, but I thought this may benefit a few people, and it is very hard to find all the necessary details from my amp thread because it is really too long, and posts of Sangram (a treasure trove really) are no longer visible.

Regards.

 

[panditji]

Wow, that is so much technology into speaker stands....one would never have guessed ...

 

[sidvee]

My 2-channel system evolution, since 2005. What I have currently, is the 7 year itch upgrade:lol:
1. B&W 705 based system, with a Sunfire classic tube pre-amplifier, quicksilver mini-mite amps, Musical fidelty a324 dac and a magnum dynalab tuner - '05
2. B&W 805 based system, with rega apollo, musical fidelity triple threat dac, modwright 9.0se pre & quicksilver mid mono amps - '07
3. Usher be-718 based system with benchmark dac & belcanto pre power -'09
Unfortunately I had some nice systems pre digital camera/cell phone camera years, so I have to try and locate the actual pics. in my albums. - I know, I am a dinosaur, compared to some of the FM's here.hyeah:
Will add more pics. of my past systems as I find them.
I also owned multiple sets of equipments all during this period, but my main system was always based on equipment that had the best synergy - at-least to my ears.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[srinisundar]

Your part of 2007 setup is now my 2012 year end setup Thanks for letting out the Quicksilver mid mono out of your setup and truly it is performing well.

Hope this week i will post some photos of Quick silver mid mono about your super packing and sitting pretty in my setup.

Regards

 

[ranjeetrain]

Sid, your rack looks super cool. Where did you procure it from?

And how is your speaker hunt going? Found any worthy successor to the Harbeths?

 

[sidvee]

Your part of 2007 setup is now my 2012 year end setup Thanks for letting out the Quicksilver mid mono out of your setup and truly it is performing well.

You are welcome Srini. Since 2000 I have had tube amps. from Antique Audio Labs, ARC, Sonic Frontiers and AES. Once I found quicksilver in '05, I have been hooked on to them. Superb tube products that are reasonably priced. Hope to get back to them some day.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Sid, your rack looks super cool. Where did you procure it from?

And how is your speaker hunt going? Found any worthy successor to the Harbeths?

Ranjeet, the maple rack is a discontinued one from VTI, that I bought in the US. The other one was made for me when I was in Pune by a shop in koregaon Park that made custom furniture.
Speaker hunt is slow - have to travel overseas - to truly kickstart it:sad:, and have to find time to do that.
Cheers,
Sid