Back to Open Baffles..... with Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Voxativ

[Sumanta]

Few years back ..I heard and read somewhere that Audiophiles who like full range single driver speakers’ sound also prefer Open Baffle sound……True its the same with me too. I got introduced to open baffle sound with Emerald Physics speakers and relished the sound for a very long time and four years back I was lured by Line magnetic 755 full range single driver field coil speakers sound.
Cheers

Hello Sameer, I have more questions that probably will help others too. Sorry for so many questions.

Q. Can you tell me difference in sound characteristics between Emerald Physics (EP) and PAP? Though both of them are OBs but EP takes little more benefit from acoustic support in the form of what they call aperture loading.
Your first hand user experience will help me a lot.
Impressions of your ears are enough for me.

I am thinking of making a little different design in OB which should take care of wide body presence issue (generally what OBs are blamed for) in not so big apartments.

Thanks for your support.

 

[sameer kumar]

I think the trick probably is in the big difference of SPL between collective SPL of 15" drivers and the 8" one to have the bass. The baffle definitely help too. And in total these speakers can run on very low power as Prem said.

Yes. They need less power ....in fact I used 300B for more than couple of months but driving 25drivers with Class D Nuprime amps was a different experience.
I enjoyed a lot with Exogal Comet , Nuprime STA 9s on PAP.
I don't know but audio gurus explained it as high damping factor amps suits larger drivers especially in OB implementation. This is what I read at other forums. I do not know the exact reason for that synergy.

Low powered do not lack anything driving PAP but High powered amps do add better dynamics to the overall sound

 

[Sumanta]

Hi....They are placed 4.75 ft from front wall.
Your observation is spot on..I have already removed 4panels and the sound has become more airy ,open and highs extended further.

Currently the panels are optimum to my listening preferences. I listen to acoustic guitar over lengthy periods. If I listen with less panels then I feel fatigued after 4 or five hours.

Other way with just two panels it sounds way better but I can't listen through the day ....especially during weekend extended sessions.

I am moving to a new house ...there I am restricted to use less panels to comply house interiors....Planning to try diffusers behind speakers...

I didn't use any panels with Emersld Physics CS3 but PAP vocativ presentation on acoustic guitar and trumpet is a bit tough on your ears beyond 4hours......

However I try removing them and share my observations of OBs in a bare room.

Try removing corner ones, and keep the middle ones in the back wall.

 

[sameer kumar]

Try removing corner ones, and keep the middle ones in the back wall.

Corner are bass traps and the centre one is a triangular bass trap.

I have diffuser panels of same size at the back wall.

Before I relocate l can document my observations on all combinations..I welcome you to come down and spend few days

 

[sameer kumar]

Hello Sameer, I have more questions that probably will help others too. Sorry for so many questions.

Q. Can you tell me difference in sound characteristics between Emerald Physics (EP) and PAP? Though both of them are OBs but EP takes little more benefit from acoustic support in the form of what they call aperture loading.
Your first hand user experience will help me a lot.
Impressions of your ears are enough for me.

I am thinking of making a little different design in OB which should take care of wide body presence issue (generally what OBs are blamed for) in not so big apartments.

Thanks for your support.

PAP has highly refined compared to EPs.

EPs were less accurate on vocals and transparency.
EPs were hazy and I am unable recall accurately .

 

[Sumanta]

PAP has highly refined compared to EPs.

EPs were less accurate on vocals and transparency.
EPs were hazy and I am unable recall accurately .

That's enough, thank you so much!
Let's see when Hyderabad can happen, and when that will happen, I will make sure to visit your place.

 

[Sumanta]

EP were no match to PAPs..

PAP is wholeheartedly credited to popularizing OB and even encourage DIYers around the globe. Their different ways of coupling the drivers, including the two woofers in series is most interesting thing to learn. It’s completely out of box thinking and does sounds as such.

Interesting. How this series connection and other things helped? Can you connect me to a good read about this speaker? I saw good reviews of AP but haven't tried PAP at all yet. Your link will save my time of searching if you can do so.
Thanks a lot.

 

[sameer kumar]

Interesting. How this series connection and other things helped? Can you connect me to a good read about this speaker? I saw good reviews of AP but haven't tried PAP at all yet. Your link will save my time of searching if you can do so.
Thanks a lot.

Hi
I feel PAP makes more relevance to DIYers like you. Scope to tweak,customise and experiment is unlimited.

I am a very lasy listener and loaded with tons of inertia to even change small cables but PAP triggered me to the extent of changing CAPs on the Xover.....of course with the help of Raghunath. Check your ideas with the creator of PAP Ze'ev.

 

[srinisundar]

Hi Rikhav,,



My focus ...more on midrange ..less on Bass ..open sound with wider soundstage.
It's my perspective...

Absolutely right..Not less on bass , but different than box type and sounds natural.

 

[Sumanta]

Sumanta, I have some rider links. Send me your email address. Will share.

Let’s investigate this. And let me know what you think.

Pureaudioproject has different ways of running the Trio. The most common is FR restricted at 200hz and two woofers connected in parallel and taking up below that and I think with an option of passive or active.

However other is woofers in series and first woofer xoed at 1200hz and the second at 300hz and both connected in series through their passive xo. The FR xo ? Not clear.

And even 2.5 way, passive. I know the gentleman behind xo magic but tells me to send over my drivers to him for free xo designing. That’s expensive with freights....

Thanks, it's [email protected].

2nd paragraph matches how I did mine even upto the fullstop.
Passive xovers are more driver and their relationship dependant, so I would mostly avoid this configuration possibilities. They are not at all bad but not as independent as an amplifier would like to be in their driver seat.

I think I am seeing a good compromise in using OB and Altec cabinet design combined as one philosophy to solve wide body problem of OB. I need to read about Altec's cabinet design basis. Then that can be combined with pressure loading of Ripole basis to have a compact OB even with 12" drivers.
I do not think 8" is the right size for mid, 10" or 12" is. I wish I could get Zu's 10" driver to try out (for free). 8" plays but not like Tiger Patoudi, more like Sunil Gavasker. It plays female voices almost perfect but not the timbre of Papon, Elvis or Jagjit. It may play them well too but that needs superlative amplifiers. And I do not want to do that. Active XO is one of the key reasons to enable using much less than good amplifiers yet still be happy.

 

[Sumanta]

PAP

Pureaudioproject has different ways of running the Trio. The most common is FR restricted at 200hz and two woofers connected in parallel and taking up below that and I think with an option of passive or active.

has two LF drivers because (I think) of the gap between baffles. Gaps are there to help transport and easy assembly.

 

[Nikhil]

Here are some examples of alternate FWW arrangement from the PAP website

 

[Hari Iyer]

@ Sumanta
When shall I come to listen your OB Speakers? Exams are over now?

 

[sameer kumar]

@ Sumanta
When shall I come to listen your OB Speakers? Exams are over now?

Welcome, I am travelling from tomorrow..back on 25th. Let me know your convenient period.
Cheers

 

[sameer kumar]

Welcome, I am travelling from tomorrow..back on 25th. Let me know your convenient period.
Cheers

Oh sorry Hari....I thought its meant for me....any ways you guys welcome if you intend to visit...thanks

 

[Sumanta]

There were many experiments with 2 LF and 1 FR placements in OB. 2 LF were always used in OB for bass augmentation. However almost all DIYer resorted to WFW configuration as it presented much wider soundstage than FWW. One downsize of WFW is FR at less than ear height position.

Similar to many boxed elite multi way speakers with the two largest woofers at top and bottom.

I am still okay with one Woofer one wide band driver combination. As my speakers sit around 8' wide, I am almost listening them near field, I do not feel need of the 2nd woofer. It depends upon SPL gap too.
PAP needs them then to supplement the gap.

 

[Sumanta]

@ Sumanta
When shall I come to listen your OB Speakers? Exams are over now?

Sorry, I missed it. Exam's getting over on 26th. We will be back from tour on 15th April.
I am thinking of having a DIY meet at my place for our friends. A day session with different products from DIYers and jamming them to sing for us. You can join us there. It is still in planning mode.
I hope you have better acceptance for OB design by now .

 

[Hari Iyer]

Sorry, I missed it. Exam's getting over on 26th. We will be back from tour on 15th April.
I am thinking of having a DIY meet at my place for our friends. A day session with different products from DIYers and jamming them to sing for us. You can join us there. It is still in planning mode.
I hope you have better acceptance for OB design by now .

Great decision. I can get my micro-TL speaker as its very compact and easy to carry by me if you wish.

 

[jls001]

Let's try to keep the discussion on this thread mainly about the thread subject. Explorations on how best to DIY something similar can be taken to the DIY forum so as not to clutter Sameer's thread. Thanks.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Let's try to keep the discussion on this thread mainly about the thread subject. Explorations on how best to DIY something similar can be taken to the DIY forum so as not to clutter Sameer's thread. Thanks.

Noted.