Class D is still not as good in 2024?

[Analogous]

I came across this statement (below) on the interweb. There seem to be several variations of this floating around. Given the developments in Class D amplification designs Is this statement still valid? This is with reference to high SQ amplifiers using top quality Class D modules (eg: Purifi etc) So many Amplifier manufacturers are also putting out Class D designs (Lyngdorf, Primare, NAD, Jeff Rowland, Marantz, and more).

Do past comparisons still hold? Is it time for a reality check? Are we, (as Joseph Goebbels said) repeating something long enough till it becomes a “truth”.?

Here is the Quote

“Class A design is the least efficient but has the highest sound fidelity. Class B design is a little more efficient, but has a lot of distortion. Class AB design packs a punch with power efficiency and superb sound. Class D design offers the highest efficiency but isn't quite as high-fidelity.”
Found this too:
Thread 'Class A/B vs Class D amplifiers'
https://www.hifivision.com/threads/class-a-b-vs-class-d-amplifiers.86426/

 

[reignofchaos]

The modern class D modules are solidly at the higher end of mid fi. Yes they can't compete with mega buck amps but at the prices they are competing, they are fantastic for the money. The NAD M33 with the Purify modules was superb. Totally worth the 5k asking price.

However the lower end ones based on hypex are not as awesome and are a bit dry if you compare them to the best of class AB.

The absolute bottom of the barrel TI 3255 based chinese amps are okay only because they are super cheap.

 

[rwnano]

I wish I knew the signal processing happening inside amplifiers enough to comment on this topic well .... anyone who knows what is happening and is up for a quick conversation?

 

[jai1611]

The Purifi amps are very good. I found the Nad power amp implementation better than the M33 if using as an amp alone. The M33 is designed around digital processing with an on board dirac implementation, streaming. If not planning to use those features, one of the purifi based power amps may be a better option (M23, C298).

These are good enough that they are on my shortlist for replacing my Accuphase E450 whenever I decide to retire that - provided I can figure out a good preamp. The only other thing on that list is a newer generation Accuphase.

 

[chander]

At this point I believe the proof is in the pudding. For those who can afford it, buy and try. Pit them against your AB amps. If you got friends/HFV FMs who own these, hear them at their place, even better, do an "equipment swap".

Internet will have as many opinions as there are people, opinions are free. Then comes purchase justification & mine is better than yours & pointless arguments for the sake of it. So...

I have done this with a decent amount of amps/systems now, I personally believe the differences in Class AB vs Class D is the same as differences within various class AB amps.

If you Give the new sound to grow on you, you will "most probably" won't care what topology it is. If you CAN remove the bias towards the "D" - "hamara beta 4th aya hai, nalayak hai, sharma ji ke bete ko A mila hai; B he le ata to main khush ho jata".

But then again - as with other things online - it is just an opinion with zero worth. Hear them with an open mind, you MAY be surprised.

 

[reignofchaos]

The Purifi amps are very good. I found the Nad power amp implementation better than the M33 if using as an amp alone. The M33 is designed around digital processing with an on board dirac implementation, streaming. If not planning to use those features, one of the purifi based power amps may be a better option (M23, C298).

These are good enough that they are on my shortlist for replacing my Accuphase E450 whenever I decide to retire that - provided I can figure out a good preamp. The only other thing on that list is a newer generation Accuphase.

I believe M33 can be used as a power amp too disabling all digital processing. But yes if you already have an optimised front end then M23 (one or two) make way more sense.

 

[keith_correa]

If you Give the new sound to grow on you, you will "most probably" won't care what topology it is.

Also called "break-in"/"burn-in".

But, I agree completely with your whole post!

 

[hifimaddy]

 

[spirovious]

Some hiend class D amps sound much better. Say Naim, Bel canto.

 

[mr_grump5]

wish we had more options of custom builds of purifi Eigentakt here, I'm using one I got from US works on Indian voltage as well, they sound so clean even @ crazy volumes and doesn't weigh a ton nor does it get crazy hot even after long listening sessions.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Some hiend class D amps sound much better. Say Naim, Bel canto.

But Parag, do they sound better than (or as good as) the equivalent (in terms of wattage, features etc) class AB amps of the same brands?

they sound so clean even @ crazy volumes and doesn't weigh a ton nor does it get crazy hot even after long listening sessions.

Size and efficiency are indeed the virtues class D is based on. And they generally sound clean, very clean. The concern is whether they clean up the texture and emotion as well? At least those at entry/budget levels do. Sure there’s continuous improvement happening, but is class D technology musically there yet? Well, AB never got to class A levels either.

The segment Class D has made a huge difference to is the Bluetooth/wireless speakers. The amount of power they can now pack into a small affordable portable speaker now wouldn’t have been possible without class D amps. They have made hi-fi’ish sound accessible to the masses.

 

[panditji]

I am waiting for Lyngdorf to come up with their version of the Purifi module integrateds with Room Perfect technology... Been wanting to hear the NAD M33 ever since it came out but to no avail...

 

[corElement]

Fosi audio z3 or v3 or dt30 is amazing and would have been impossible to get that sound at 10k inr. Blows away most amps under 65k.

 

[sidvee]

I have a vtv hypex nc252 mp amp, picked up for $600. Musically it sounds superb, very different from earlier switching amps. It does not have the lean and sterile signature, plus if you add a tubed pre-amp, it is easily on par with significantly more expensive amps - x2 or x3 the cost. And all this is sound quality wise, coming to power it is another story, it can handle 99% of speakers with ease, even one's dipping to 2 ohms load. This was an experiment for me, so I bought a basic amp. to try it out, now that I am thoroughly convinced I am planning higher end options.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[mr_grump5]

Size and efficiency are indeed the virtues class D is based on. And they generally sound clean, very clean. The concern is whether they clean up the texture and emotion as well? At least those at entry/budget levels do. Sure there’s continuous improvement happening, but is class D technology musically there yet? Well, AB never got to class A levels either.

The segment Class D has made a huge difference to is the Bluetooth/wireless speakers. The amount of power they can now pack into a small affordable portable speaker now wouldn’t have been possible without class D amps. They have made hi-fi’ish sound accessible to the masses.

my chain is Gustard X18+Topping Pre90+ Purifi, 80% of listening is from Tidal streaming and rest from CDs via Oppo, I don't feel anything amiss coming from Class AB Denon, recently a friend with Marantz PM8006 who had similiar apprehensions wrt tonality/treble with Class D amps, after listening to mine he switched over to Hypex NCx500 and still can't stop gushing about the 'upgrade'.

for those who used 'tubes' for decades might find hard it but those from solid state should find the transition lot easier.
may be in next iteration Bruno Putzeys can add a toggle for 'fake noises' like how electric car manufactures did to make the switch seamless

 

[reignofchaos]

I am currently listening to a hypex UCD based NAD M10v2. It is pretty good for the money but the purify modules are at another level with respect to musicality. It could be the power supply as well as the M33 is much more substantial in that regard.

Anyone who still thinks class D is bad should try to listen to the purify based NAD M23/M33. You will come out extremely surprised.

As for the M10V2 - it's great for it's size which is no bigger than a mac mini.

 

[Analogous]

A few years (10!!!) I had a NAD D3020i paired with KEF LS50 (version 1). I was amazed at how loud this diminutive amp could drive the speakers. I had a lot of fun listening to this as a desktop set up. Then a Marantz R series amp came and spoilt it all.
But this was 10 years ago and I am sure a lot of new designs and improvements have happened in the class D world since.

 

[Mayasandra_l]

Having heard the NAD M 23 as an integrated and as a power amp driving my Falcons LS35A, I can say that these amps come very close to my SE Class A amp in terms of sonic purity. With no heat dissipation, the amps are God sent during summers. A definite thumbs up for the Class D purify models of the M series from NAD. The C 298 with the same purify module as that of M23, made my speakers a bit stringent. The overall design of a Class D also thus plays a big role.

 

[Analogous]

Heard that a company called Heaven 11 makes an amp with Tubed Pre stage and a class D power stage. Anyone experienced this?

 

[chander]

I have a vtv hypex nc252 mp amp, picked up for $600. Musically it sounds superb, very different from earlier switching amps. It does not have the lean and sterile signature, plus if you add a tubed pre-amp, it is easily on par with significantly more expensive amps - x2 or x3 the cost. And all this is sound quality wise, coming to power it is another story, it can handle 99% of speakers with ease, even one's dipping to 2 ohms load. This was an experiment for me, so I bought a basic amp. to try it out, now that I am thoroughly convinced I am planning higher end options.
Cheers,
Sid

If you are planning on getting into higher end Class D - check out Apollon, but I am sure you must have heard of them.
Ridiculously priced, but beautiful.