DAC around INR 100k

[Staxxx]

I agree Ranjeetrain. I would never buy from Alex. His track record is not the greatest. And its not that his stuff is cheap. It costs an arm and a leg and imagine not being able to have it serviced in case there is any problem. When it comes to digital stuff i prefer buying from companies that have been around for years. One of the reasons i will never buy a Playback Design is that the unit manufacturing it is a small one. What happens, god forbid, if they wind up? Chances of an Esoteric, Wadia, DCS winding up are much less.

....actually DCS went though hell about eight or ten years ago, I remember. They sold out and it was never the same company....much larger much more commercial and thereby more stable. But for a couple of years they were as good as gone.....the audio world is a tough place for sure !!

 

[prem]

I did not know that Staxx. Yes, audio is a tough business to be in.

 

[arj]

same about Wadia..I believe this is the third iteration of Wadia having been sold twice in the past. The classics like the Wadia 9 dac and the Wadia 6 CDPs are still legendary. the second avatar with the 8xx series CDps were also pretty good.
the present offering is pretty "commercial"

 

[sidvee]

When it comes to digital stuff i prefer buying from companies that have been around for years. One of the reasons i will never buy a Playback Design is that the unit manufacturing it is a small one.

Very true Prem. On my mind as well as I am considering their products.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[square_wave]

The overall sound you will get from your system will be completely dependent on the speaker you choose. If the amp / speaker combination is squeaky clean - fast and transparent, you may want to look at a different dac than with a round and liquid sounding combination.

System synergy is the most important thing in audio.

I am sure if you hang around on forums where there are many accuphase users; you will get a fairly good idea about what DAC works with an accuphase / certain - speaker combination.

Overall, I am sure you will certainly find a DAC which works with your proposed system in the budget that you have. Look for options in Singapore if you cant find what you want in India.

 

[square_wave]

Another consideration is resale value. I am trying to go for something which will hold a good resale value should the circumstance arise. It means staying on the well-trodden path. I am ticking off equipment which are not hugely popular/well-regarded. That is leaving me with even fewer choices.

.

Underground or small manufacturers if you want value for money

Hugely popular brands spend two or three times the above and you get pretty much the same quality as the above

Calculate how much you lose when you sell both

An important question well regarded by whom ??

 

[prem]

Squarewave

With digital players i still feel it makes sense to stick to the big guys. I had bought a dac from a niche player. It conked out in no time. Sending it back to US and getting it back was a huge pain and it cost a lot of money. Whereas with Esoteric the local Tascam guys will service it. With amps and speakers its fine because the circuits are pretty much standard. The problem in digital is a lot of guys have proprietary stuff which only they know what to do.

 

[SatMumbai]

Squarewave

With digital players i still feel it makes sense to stick to the big guys. I had bought a dac from a niche player. It conked out in no time. Sending it back to US and getting it back was a huge pain and it cost a lot of money. Whereas with Esoteric the local Tascam guys will service it. With amps and speakers its fine because the circuits are pretty much standard. The problem in digital is a lot of guys have proprietary stuff which only they know what to do.

I have similar thoughts especially given the technology leap at the source / dac end, I would stick to a popular player rather than a boutique shop far away.
I was citing an example else where. There was this Grant Fidelity Tube11 DAC which was regarded as extremely good and performs up to 1000 USD range. It costed me about 450 USD to reach my home and to my surprise the transformer was making loud humming sound. Manufacturer says I need to take care of two way shipping and most likely the transformer sound is normal ?? I have up and sold it for half price. Luckily this is not a big ticket item and so I made peace with the loss.

Same thoughts on Amplifier.. technology is kind of steady (unless we are talking about Devialet) and so I am fine with saving money over there and get similar performance at lesser price than a heavily marketed brand.

BTW, Ranjeetrain, right now Oppo 105 is getting burn in (I got the delivery last night) and have a listen to it if you get a chance. I know the purist audiophile will curl in pain at my suggestion but I am quite impressed with what I am hearing. Also, it ticks all your boxes. It is not that I want to join the fraternity but making a suggestion based on what I heard in the past.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

With any hifi item, it looks good if the manufacturer is making their own components, but ceases to look good when those components need replacing and the manufacturer is in USA or Europe. In fact, even the people who live in the country of manufacture are limited in their options.

 

[jai1611]

Personally I've had a good experience with my Lampizator dac. The guys who make them are pretty responsive. Plus the founder was a tinkerer for years before going commercial and should be around to help even if he stops selling these commercially.

I wouldn't compare the experience to buying Chinese brands like Jungson or white labelled Chinese products like Tube Fidelity. Those are pretty much made in an anonymous factory and if something goes wrong, you are on your own. Patchy QC doesn't help. I had a Chinese dac where the transformer actually melted!

 

[BLASTO]

I have been recently thinking over getting a good quality DAC. My current benchmarks are Benchmark DAC 1 and Nuforce Icon HDP.

Stick with them. Add Musical Fidelity to the equation. The more options you consider, the more confused you will be left with.

 

[asliarun]

Any thoughts from forum members on DACs based on ESS Sabre32 or the Buffalo III-SE module made by Twisted Pear? I realize that the chip itself is just one aspect of a good DAC design, but I was curious to know more about first-hand impressions on DACs based on this chip.

Ranjeet, apologies if I am taking this thread off-track. If so, please let me know. I wanted to throw this in as there are some very interesting high-end DIY implementations using this chip, and also other products using this chip.

Reference link: The Buffalo-IIISE (Stereo Edition) 2-Channel DAC

 

[ranjeetrain]

BTW, Ranjeetrain, right now Oppo 105 is getting burn in (I got the delivery last night) and have a listen to it if you get a chance. I know the purist audiophile will curl in pain at my suggestion but I am quite impressed with what I am hearing. Also, it ticks all your boxes. It is not that I want to join the fraternity but making a suggestion based on what I heard in the past.

Oppo is available everywhere now. Auditioning will be easy. However, it's a long holiday in China (nearly two week layoff). When the showrooms are back open I'll make a point to hear it.

But I can tell you one problem beforehand. Wherever I'll go trying to hear it, I'll be greeted with AV stuff. The player hooked to Onkyo HTIB, Yamaha HTs and such. These are the stuff that are hugely popular in China with consumers at entry level and these are stuff I am gonna see everywhere I go looking for an Oppo.

Still, not giving up hope. If there is any place where I'd have an amp and speakers decent enough to potentially bring out the brilliance of the Oppo, I'll surely give it a whizz.

Any thoughts from forum members on DACs based on ESS Sabre32 or the Buffalo III-SE module made by Twisted Pear? I realize that the chip itself is just one aspect of a good DAC design, but I was curious to know more about first-hand impressions on DACs based on this chip.

Ranjeet, apologies if I am taking this thread off-track. If so, please let me know. I wanted to throw this in as there are some very interesting high-end DIY implementations using this chip, and also other products using this chip.

Reference link: The Buffalo-IIISE (Stereo Edition) 2-Channel DAC

No worries, Arun. We are all on track. No need to feel apologetic.

There are some good DACs on the Chinese market based on AKM and ESS chips. They usually cost a fraction of western products, but as Jai and others have mentioned, QC is THE problem with Chinese gear, not to mention lack of trust in what they do. I think I should start a fresh thread about my experiences with Chinese gear. The good, the bad and the ugly.

I wouldn't compare the experience to buying Chinese brands like Jungson or white labelled Chinese products like Tube Fidelity. Those are pretty much made in an anonymous factory and if something goes wrong, you are on your own. Patchy QC doesn't help. I had a Chinese dac where the transformer actually melted!

I agree with the pathetic QC in Chinese made gear. I have burnt fingers too. But once you get past that, you are in heaven, literally.

I bought a DIY tube amp in China (which was a rip off of a western design and shall remain nameless as I don't want anyone in trouble). I paid around INR 12k equivalent. It sounded at least as good as any SS amp under INR 60-70k if not better. It died soon though. But while it lasted...

 

[SatMumbai]

Oppo is available everywhere now. Auditioning will be easy. However, it's a long holiday in China (nearly two week layoff). When the showrooms are back open I'll make a point to hear it.

But I can tell you one problem beforehand. Wherever I'll go trying to hear it, I'll be greeted with AV stuff. The player hooked to Onkyo HTIB, Yamaha HTs and such. These are the stuff that are hugely popular in China with consumers at entry level and these are stuff I am gonna see everywhere I go looking for an Oppo.

It would be good if you could get a chance to listen to it.
Just to be clear.. Oppo makes two new players. BDP-103 @ $499 and BDP-105 @ $1199. These players costs a lot more in India (and may be in China too) due to import duties etc (I paid almost $1750 through a local Dealer here)
Given the price point, I am not too sure whether they will pair it with a HTiB but please look out for the BDP-105 which has got better Analogue section, better DAC chips (ESS Sabre32 Reference 9018) and various digital inputs (including HDMI and USB)
Man.. I should stop sounding like Oppo Sales person but that is what happens to most of us.. we get attached to our gear at times!

And if we are talking about individual future paths, Pathos Musiteca looks very interesting too
av2day.com

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

From my browsing yesterday...

Is this Ex-demo offer on an Antelope DAC, in UK, of any interest to you?

Item Audio: Antelope Zodiac Plus GBP 1,595

If they are shipping abroad, you would get 20% off for no VAT, plus shipping and the Indian-customs lottery.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Wow, good find! If it were Zodiac Gold it would have been super cool.

Though the price mentioned there isn't very attractive. If customs let it slip, it will be worth, but otherwise buying in India is better. No hassles and price isn't that much higher either.

@Sat, sure, will keep in mind.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I only found Item Audio this week. Looks like they have quite an amazing product range.

The offer is 25% off, which is, I guess, respectable. If I had a lakh to spend, I think I'd buy it on the Antelope reputation, even though I only heard of them in the past year or so.

 

[jai1611]

I only found Item Audio this week. Looks like they have quite an amazing product range.

The offer is 25% off, which is, I guess, respectable. If I had a lakh to spend, I think I'd buy it on the Antelope reputation, even though I only heard of them in the past year or so.

Remember that UK prices for non-UK brands are usually quite high. Eg. the Audiophilleo USB SPDIF converter, which is US$550 in the US, is 529 at Item Audio.

 

[square_wave]

@Prem,

I agree about some boutique players suddenly vanishing.

I was mostly thinking about small manufacturers who are pretty much established. Chances of such players vanishing are similar to many established ones. For example, the chances of AVA or Green Mountain audio being around is pretty much similar to DCS or PD. I know they are not DAC manufacturers but just an appropriate example.

Otherwise we will all be buying gear only from folks like bryston or musical fidelities of the world which pretty much narrows our choice radically. Also looking at this hobby from a different school of thought, you will also keep yourself away from some stellar devices which may not cost the world especially @ real world price points.

 

[prem]

I agree Square_Wave. its just that with digital players i am a little extra careful.