But this rule is universal. Better quality components do cost more. You have to be knowledgeable about the correct/fair value for the product. When a customer feels they are paying too much, the real problem could be that one or the other (hopefully not both!) is not adequately knowledgeable about the product. Manufacturers make products to a price point. The dealer/seller should convey or guide the customer properly. For this the customer has to be ready to give the dealer a little more money for this service. If anywhere along the line this relation breaks down, one or both parties should avoid the transaction.
Dali Ikon6 auditioned
- Thread starter varma_vikas
- Start date
But this rule is universal. Better quality components do cost more. You have to be knowledgeable about the correct/fair value for the product. When a customer feels they are paying too much, the real problem could be that one or the other (hopefully not both!) is not adequately knowledgeable about the product. Manufacturers make products to a price point. The dealer/seller should convey or guide the customer properly. For this the customer has to be ready to give the dealer a little more money for this service. If anywhere along the line this relation breaks down, one or both parties should avoid the transaction.
corElement
Well-Known Member
101% true. This is why I never buy anything without knowing the dynamics involving it post the purchase.
ShaQ.Blogs
Active Member
Firstly, different people have different choices and different taste. Hence when one person likes something, another will probably not. All boils down to Personal choice.
However the OP has been overly critical, especially of some really good speakers like Dali Icon 6 & Paradigm Studios. Shows that he is commenting based on frustration. (Sure 1.9 Lakhs may not be an appropriate price) Dosent make the speakers bad.
While some good speakers may not go well with few guys, it dosent make them bad speakers so quickly. Some people love excessive bass, most speakers are not designed for excessive bass or excessive anything. Most hi end speakers try to reproduce sound accurately, while compromising a little on it, trying to emphasize some factor over the other. Cost is a factor, hence something needs to be compromised. This is why people audition. Many speakers sound different than many others.
Last but not the least, it is speakers which dictate which amp is suitable and which is NOT suitable. Speakers are impedance loads. Loads always dictate how much power they need. Some loads are *cranky loads* and hence are more demanding. This means a more powerful amp is needed, which means a better power section in the amp is needed, and hence more expensive amp. It mostly depends on speaker design. This dictates how much power it needs to be driven efficiently. It dosent make the speaker a bad one at all.
While auditioning, always audition speakers first.
While auditioning speakers, always use an amp which has sufficient power/headroom. Else you will be listening to the amp, not the speakers!!
Once you decide on speakers, then and only then choose an amp.
While choosing an amp, more head room is better!!
Dont choose an amp looking at specs, many specs by manufacturers are either unreliable or not consistent. (For example: While one amp might have published specs driving 2 channels, another will have specs driving more channels. Hence you cant compare. There are lot more factors which come in.) Get a professional to choose an amp for you. Choosing an amp is not a simple task. Needs experience and good technical knowledge (Theory and practical).
While I agree with most of what you have said, here I disagree. Room acoustics plays a very very important role. Next to speakers, room acoustics play the next most important role. Its impact is not small, it can make a huge difference, if done right. 95% of rooms either, suppress or emphasize sounds. One cant know what is happening, without measurements. Many a times people upgrade to new speakers, without even considering what role room is actually playing. Working on room acoustics usually yeilds much better results than upgrades. More often than not, room acoustics play a dominant role.
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ShaQ.Blogs
Active Member
Not necessarily. I'm sure you have heard BOSE
B&W is one of the many brands I am aware of that has overly priced speakers, same quality which is provided at a cheaper price by many brands like Wharf, PSB, ect
corElement
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. I'm sure you have heard BOSE
B&W is one of the many brands I am aware of that has overly priced speakers, same quality which is provided at a cheaper price by many brands like Wharf, PSB, ect
None of wharf or psb offerings can fit the requirement some of bose's products cater to. That does not mean either is good or bad.
Everything has their own use.
I agree that the rule is universal as cost and quality have a direct relationship. But unfortunately here its exploited due to the ignorance and the desperate customers are looted with this rule. I have heard that products imported from China to India are of not the same quality that are imported from China to USA even though in India we may end up paying more than in US. Hence the question of the brand and price tag is even more important to independently analyze them without being baised by the brand and the supposedly good quality of the brand. I have a 2 number SONY TA-AX44 amplifier one made in India by Orson and other made in Japan by SONY themselves. If i open both these amplifiers then i can virtually see the difference in the workman-ship and the quality of the components used in both these amplifiers. Also the one made in Japan was for the European market. When i connect these amplifiers to my speakers its easily evident that even if both the amplifiers are same, the SQ is not. The Japanese build amplifier sounds a notch better than the Indian make, though the difference is not night and day. Neverthless the Made in India amplifier still serves me well and i am using it since the year 1987 and still is in a good working condition and has not failed even once. So its not a bad quality amplifier either else it would have failed long ago.
The Japanese make amplifier was picked by me during a random visit to a 2nds sales stores at Holland in the year 2010 for just 12 Euros as it was a brand new amplifier but very vintage and the store was giving it away to clear space.
me and my friend (musician for over 20 yeas) went to audition speakers. heard ikon 6 with some odessey amp, plenty powerful. rejected within 30 seconds. it sounded horrible. with the same amp, we tried usher x-718 and loved it. my friend is currently running the x-718 with an old yamaha avr and he is very happy. we had tried a bunch of other speakers too 685, be718, mezzo 2, mezzo 6 etc. nothing sounded as bad as the ikons.
ShaQ.Blogs
Active Member
Many a times people refer to amp signatures. More often that not the amp power is not sufficient to drive speakers and make it seem that the amp has a signature. One really has to understand that today, almost all quality amps simply have a ruler flat frequency response. It is literally ruler flat. Most, if not all Speakers do not have ruler flat FR. A flat frequency response means the amp has no signature.
When someone refers to something being bright or something being laid back, it means the frequency response is emphasized or suppressed in some region. Even moderately designed amps dont do this! Even low end amps of denon, onkyo, yam, ect have a ruler flat frequency response, with maybe one or two exceptions.
Amp designs have 3 main targets. Amplification, low noise, ruler flat frequency response. Today achieving this is darn pretty easy in the amps world.
When someone refers to something being bright or something being laid back, it means the frequency response is emphasized or suppressed in some region. Even moderately designed amps dont do this! Even low end amps of denon, onkyo, yam, ect have a ruler flat frequency response, with maybe one or two exceptions.
Amp designs have 3 main targets. Amplification, low noise, ruler flat frequency response. Today achieving this is darn pretty easy in the amps world.
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corElement
Well-Known Member
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you're comparing an x-718 to an ikon 6???????
Have you compared their price? hehe
I feel bad for the x-718 being run off an avr
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
yeah, the x-718 costs less than ikon 6.
Dont feel so bad. it sounds far superior to ikon 6 with odessey.
ShaQ.Blogs
Active Member
from what I have understood the OP wants emphasis on Bass with a punch. I think Jamo should be a good bet.
I had heard a couple of theirs with a better bass punch than others that I had heard. It could also be a case of room acoustics. Sorry dont remember if it was the speakers or or speakers with room acoustics.
By bass punch I mean the range from about 100 Hz to about 200Hz. This is the range which give a thump in the chest kinda feeling.
I had heard a couple of theirs with a better bass punch than others that I had heard. It could also be a case of room acoustics. Sorry dont remember if it was the speakers or or speakers with room acoustics.
By bass punch I mean the range from about 100 Hz to about 200Hz. This is the range which give a thump in the chest kinda feeling.
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ranjeetrain
New Member
Totally agree. My signature is only about the "equipment", because in India most people only care about the equipment and the "cost". No one gives a thing to factors such as room acoustics.
My signature is about 6 years old, and at that time, at this forum, it served a great purpose. Recently I have not been active and didn't update the signature to keep it up to date with the current trends in Indian hifi.
Btw, your post doesn't say anything different, in principal, from mine. In fact I see the reflection of my own "audio philosophies" everywhere in your post.
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We shall await the Jamo's expert to respond on this aspect :lol:
dali ikon 6 crossover network - Google Search
Some images of the Dali Ikon 6 cross-over network, its impedance and Frequency Domain response for discussion and comments.
Some images of the Dali Ikon 6 cross-over network, its impedance and Frequency Domain response for discussion and comments.
ShaQ.Blogs
Active Member
Sorry if this came out that way. I had been shuttling between my comp and tv so it took me time to write the post. I saw like 5-6 posts, after i posted which i had seen when i started.
ranjeetrain
New Member
I would have taken your post seriously if you didn't list 685. I haven't heard the others you listed, but I have heard the 685. Dali Ikons are in a light years ahead of 685. 685 isn't even in the same league as the Dali Ikon. Go figure!
ranjeetrain
New Member
Sir, there is no point in auditioning a Dali Ikon with the amp you are mentioning. The Dali will lay bare all the positives and negatives of your amp and you might be left wondering why does the speaker sound so bad (or so good, depending how your amp is).
i feel exactly the other way around. 685 was a serious contender and ikon didnt even make it to our top ten list. we rated it equal to some low end polks.
ranjeetrain
New Member
To each his own.
Dali Ikons are among the most praised and most awarded speakers of past two decades. There must be something all the audio gurus around the world don't know that you do?
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