Digital Stabilizers - Horrors in our Apartment

[vardu]

Are you talking about MCB switch ?

There is a RCD switch that is connected to the Surge protector and twice I have reset it ( I assume that it was triggered by the Surge and not otherwise).

The only visible components are the MCB and RCD - everything else including the (useless) stabilizers for various devices, inverter, backup batteries are not readily accessible.

I have to check this evening to figure out if there is really a working surge protector or if there has been no surge and I have been just resetting a GFCI both times!!!

 

[vardu]

Update : There is only a standard MOV based Surge Protector. The tripping was due to leakage and grounding issues and likely not related to the Surge.

New plans - quote for Series Mode Surge at both Point as well as all 15 A ( depending on price/space).

Point based Stabilizer has space/ugliness constraints - so has to be moved to near the breaker board and line pulled to the room).

With hope this is done by Thursday.

Long term plan (by June 2011)-Getting quotes for a Stabilizer for 10 KVA and getting it installed along with a 2-step Series Mode Surge Protector for the entire house.

 

[sridhar-v]

Dear All,

Pls refer to my post on a similar topic (pls see pg 4 for pics) :
h_t_t_p://www.hifivision.com/what-should-i-buy/6763-difference-b-w-monster-surge-protector-v-guard-voltage-stabilizer-lcd-tvs-4.html#post89764

Let me reiterate- When a phase line comes into contact with the neutral, then 2 out of 3 phases in single phase mode will show 440 v while the 3rd phase will show 0.

The surge suppressors & spike busters available in the market will not help in this situation as u require a response in a few milliseconds. The only thing that works is a high voltage rupture disc. This has to be connected between phase & neutral at the nearest possible point after the meter. Costs when I bought last was 45Rs.
I am attaching photos of the disc.

http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3331&stc=1&d=1292336211
http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3332&stc=1&d=1292336253

Regards

Sridhar

 

[Hiten]

Thanks sridhar.
Few years back I did a designing job for a product called 'Cable TV Guard' which claimed to protect TVs if lightening strikes your TV cable. It had a tiny box with socket to put cable wire in and antenna pin to connect to TV. I think it used the same part you have mentioned. Isn't it MOV ? (Metal Oxide Variastor).
addition : Oh I see Vardu has already mentioned it. Sorry.

 

[sunder]

Stabilisers (including servo) are like a call girl. From Rs 1000/- to few lacs that is the range.

Pls remember :

for home theater use with average load, you need a 2kv to 3kv good factory made Servo Stabiliser and it costs above 20k-25k.

So hoping a cheap 5k stabiliser will give all mighty protection to your 1Lac+ system is a foolish dream.

Theorotically speaking, UPS that too ONLINE UPS in same load range is a better solution but that it requires a battery backup. Remember banks and even hitech gyms use a online UPS to protect their systems.
But for our Home theaters , a good Company Servo-stab would do, not one picked up from street-side electricity shop or even a mall.
V-guard is not a servo stab but just a stab.

Now the question of Inverters. Lots of companies sell their inverters with fancy names like Sine-wave UPS, offline UPS etc... these are good for power backup of your apartment but not for your home theater.
In fact , many amplifier compaines write in their manual, not to run the amp on a inverter backup.



Or a simple rule would be : the cost of power protection for your equipment should be from 10-20 % of the total equipment cost for the solution to be effecive.

So now a 1k Vguard should be good enough for a equip upto 10k ... how will it protect a 50 inch plasma.

SO choose your power protection wisely and carefully.

thanks

Hi Spidey, power amplifiers need unrestricted power supply, so that it is not
recommended to use power conditioners for hi powered amps as breath to its full to dig out the last ounce. Will servo stabilisers be suitable to power amps? will it restrict the power flow? Thank you.

 

[anm]

Don't these components like amps have built in protection? IIRC lyrita pre/ power amps do have fuses and such protection, not too sure though.

I think protection against surge can be done for the entire house quite cheaply.
Protection against voltage variance between 150-250 kind of range is the domain of stabs.
I asked my local electrician yesterday and he said manual stabilizers from companies like logicstat are good and they cut off immediately if voltage exceeds the set range. I am not convinced though about response time. He said servos would be very noisy.

 

[anm]

So if we focus only on the SURGE protection part, what are the recommendations?

 

[crewcut]

The only thing that works is a high voltage rupture disc...

Sridhar

Anyone know where to get this in Bangalore? My regular shop on SP Road (CA Electronics), who I called, didn't know what it is. In fact, even Google didn't give me any decent results on this device and trawling Google is a lot easier than trawling SP Road.

 

[square_wave]

To be fair,

Whatever is sold in this country in the name of voltage stabilizers are a con-job ! V guard or whatever ! They are all the same.

Even servos will not protect if the surge is fast enough.

Spike busters protect to a certain extent. UPS or power regenerators which provide complete isolation from the line are the only solution. But they are expensive.

 

[pnreddy]

@digitalv

[/QUOTE]...Also if you are in a surge prone area, it is recommended that the spike busters be replaced every 2 years or so since the varistors in them have only a finite protection cycles which it can go through after which they fail to function as intended.[/QUOTE]

I was under the impression that the varistors in a spike busters are like a fuse and when they blow at the first instance they cannot be used again. You mentioned that they can work for some more cycles before giving up.

Thanks

 

[pnreddy]

Dear All,

Pls refer to my post on a similar topic (pls see pg 4 for pics) :
h_t_t_p://www.hifivision.com/what-should-i-buy/6763-difference-b-w-monster-surge-protector-v-guard-voltage-stabilizer-lcd-tvs-4.html#post89764

Let me reiterate- When a phase line comes into contact with the neutral, then 2 out of 3 phases in single phase mode will show 440 v while the 3rd phase will show 0.

The surge suppressors & spike busters available in the market will not help in this situation as u require a response in a few milliseconds. The only thing that works is a high voltage rupture disc. This has to be connected between phase & neutral at the nearest possible point after the meter. Costs when I bought last was 45Rs.
I am attaching photos of the disc.

http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3331&stc=1&d=1292336211
http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3332&stc=1&d=1292336253

Regards

Sridhar

Dear Sridhar,
Thanks for the info. Can you please tell us whether you need three of these - one for each phase? Also can you tell us how these are to be wired. If it is connected between a phase and neutral and it blows, is the power supply interrupted? Also, is there any wattage ratings for these?

Thanks

 

[asliarun]

Dear All,

Pls refer to my post on a similar topic (pls see pg 4 for pics) :
h_t_t_p://www.hifivision.com/what-should-i-buy/6763-difference-b-w-monster-surge-protector-v-guard-voltage-stabilizer-lcd-tvs-4.html#post89764

Let me reiterate- When a phase line comes into contact with the neutral, then 2 out of 3 phases in single phase mode will show 440 v while the 3rd phase will show 0.

The surge suppressors & spike busters available in the market will not help in this situation as u require a response in a few milliseconds. The only thing that works is a high voltage rupture disc. This has to be connected between phase & neutral at the nearest possible point after the meter. Costs when I bought last was 45Rs.
I am attaching photos of the disc.

Regards

Sridhar

Per my limited understanding, an RCD is meant to safeguard against exactly this reason. Similarly, an ELCB does the same thing but when comparing live with earth instead of live with neutral.

Is this not standard fitment in most houses nowadays? It also protects us against getting electrocuted and is supposed to have millisecond responses. There is a bit of nuisance value as it trips occasionally (in my case, because of the washing machine), but if it is located in an easy to reach spot, it is quite easy to reset, which basically involves just flipping the switch.

I myself have never faced a significant power surge (or was shielded from it by probably the RCD), but it would be interesting to know if everyone else has this in their homes as well.

I would imagine that this would be the first thing to get installed. Everything else, like servo stabs or UPS etc. should come after this is installed.

Again, I am not an expert in this, and am just speaking from my common knowledge. Maybe, I am putting too much reliance on the RCD circuit breakers.

Oh, one more thing: I remember reading when I was a kid that putting a knot in the power cable protects our equipment against lightning... it acts as an inductor which protects against a power surge or something. Not sure if this is an old wives' tale or actually has some semblance of truth, but I do tend to put knots in my power cables.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Put enough knots in your cable and you might start a fire! Like using a high-wattage device on a spooled up extension cable, and I've seen the resultant smoke coming out of one.

For the voting: I do not have an RCD/ELCB. I did have in London: once or twice it saved me from shocks, and once or twice I found it absurdly oversensitive and got plunged into darkness just as I was tinkering with something.

 

[venkatcr]

For the voting:

That is an expression that is new to me. I thought you usually say 'just for the record'.

Cheers

 

[asliarun]

Put enough knots in your cable and you might start a fire! Like using a high-wattage device on a spooled up extension cable, and I've seen the resultant smoke coming out of one.

For the voting: I do not have an RCD/ELCB. I did have in London: once or twice it saved me from shocks, and once or twice I found it absurdly oversensitive and got plunged into darkness just as I was tinkering with something.

Didn't know that! I only put a single knot.. and yes, I do realize that it is a bit silly!

Yes, I was thinking about the nuisance value of RCDs as well, although I strongly feel that the protection it provides far outweighs the nuisance value. In my case, I also solved this problem by replacing my original RCD with a slightly higher current capacity (or lower sensitivity) version.

A small idea: might make sense to have an emergency light close to the RCD switch or the circuit breaker switchboard in general. This way, if the RCD trips at night, or if the electricity goes and we need to check for "trips", at least we don't have to fumble around in the dark.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

That is an expression that is new to me. I thought you usually say 'just for the record'.

My problem is that I am loosing track of what I usually say!

As I understand it, the proper, proper way of using ELCBs is to have a separate unprotected circuit for fridge, freezer, etc, where the consequences of a false-cause trip when the house was empty could be expensive.

I strongly feel that the protection it provides far outweighs the nuisance value

I agree entirely. No idea why I didn't get this when I was spending all my money filling this house with gadgets. My mistake.

 

[anandkrishnantc]

I checked with Vertex (manufacturer of Servos). They quoted 12.5K for a 2KV Server stabilizer suitable for AV gear in Bangalore including 2 years on site service. I am planning to buy one by next month.
regards,
Anand

 

[venkatcr]

Is this not standard fitment in most houses nowadays?

I myself have never faced a significant power surge (or was shielded from it by probably the RCD), but it would be interesting to know if everyone else has this in their homes as well.

If I am not wrong, there is a rule somewhere that does not allow you to have a residential electrical circuit without RCDs. My house has several layers, and I have replaced some of these over time.

Cheers

 

[captrajesh]

Everyone here are using abbreviations. Guys, could you please post the full forms.

MCB - Miniature Circuit Breakers
MOV - Metal-Oxide Varister
GDT - Gas Discharge Tube
ELCB - ?
RCD - ?

 

[hifiashok]

Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker
Residual Current Device
GFCI: Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter