Getting a Berning amp
- Thread starter prem
- Start date
An update
The Berning is running in nicely. At present I find the gain a bit too high for my liking. Hence the 5965 GE driver tubes will be replaced with Mullard 4003 tubes. Thanks George and Santhosh for getting me these tubes. The gain will reduce by about 8 db which should work perfectly for me
Also I no longer have any room treatment. No resonators, no rosewood cubes, nothing
Also have moved away from Liveline Reference cables. Am using a balanced EMT cable between EMT and Berning. Speaker cables are flat silver made by Rethm. Power cords for Rethm are solid core 18ga unshielded cables. Power cord for EMT is 16ga stranded unshielded generic cord. Power cord for Berning is 18ga stranded unshielded generic cord
The Berning is running in nicely. At present I find the gain a bit too high for my liking. Hence the 5965 GE driver tubes will be replaced with Mullard 4003 tubes. Thanks George and Santhosh for getting me these tubes. The gain will reduce by about 8 db which should work perfectly for me
Also I no longer have any room treatment. No resonators, no rosewood cubes, nothing
Also have moved away from Liveline Reference cables. Am using a balanced EMT cable between EMT and Berning. Speaker cables are flat silver made by Rethm. Power cords for Rethm are solid core 18ga unshielded cables. Power cord for EMT is 16ga stranded unshielded generic cord. Power cord for Berning is 18ga stranded unshielded generic cord
GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
Welcome Prem.
Hi Gemini
The 6b4 is actually a 2a3 in an octal base. It's a triode. David Berning suggested me this tube. The 2a3 and 6b4 are very similar sounding tubes. NOS 6b4 tubes are much cheaper than NOS 2a3.
I do not use a pre. The power amp has a passive vol control. It has 26 db gain
The 6b4 is actually a 2a3 in an octal base. It's a triode. David Berning suggested me this tube. The 2a3 and 6b4 are very similar sounding tubes. NOS 6b4 tubes are much cheaper than NOS 2a3.
I do not use a pre. The power amp has a passive vol control. It has 26 db gain
Congrats on the new amp setup.
Iimo having a high bias can reduce the tube life drastically especially if they turn red hot. View the tubes in the dark if the grey plates become red. If yes then bias is too high.
You mentioned crossover change for the speaker- why should that be required for a change in amp? Arent crossovers designed to be anyway neutral?
Will be eager for a listen when scheduled.
Iimo having a high bias can reduce the tube life drastically especially if they turn red hot. View the tubes in the dark if the grey plates become red. If yes then bias is too high.
You mentioned crossover change for the speaker- why should that be required for a change in amp? Arent crossovers designed to be anyway neutral?
Will be eager for a listen when scheduled.
Hari, the tubes are biased low. Apparently people have not changed tubes in their Berning amps for ten years.
In the Rethm speakers the single driver always plays full range irrespective of crossover settings. Nothing gets cut. The sub just fills in the lower frequencies.
Which is why it allows setting as per room. For example my bass vol is at 9.30 and crossover is at 105 hz. In Jacobs room crossover is at about 105 hz but vol is at about 10.30. My room is small compared to his. So if I increase vol any more the room takes over. Jacobs is much larger and open. So he is able to operate at higher bass volumes
A sub designed like in the Rethm always allows you tailor it as per room and personal taste. A change to a more powerful amp will allow the single driver to go a bit lower which might necessitate a minor change in crossover. With Virens amp which was a 3 watter, my crossover was around 120hz. Now with Berning which is a 10 watter and way more linear in bass, I prefer the setting around 105 hz
In the Rethm speakers the single driver always plays full range irrespective of crossover settings. Nothing gets cut. The sub just fills in the lower frequencies.
Which is why it allows setting as per room. For example my bass vol is at 9.30 and crossover is at 105 hz. In Jacobs room crossover is at about 105 hz but vol is at about 10.30. My room is small compared to his. So if I increase vol any more the room takes over. Jacobs is much larger and open. So he is able to operate at higher bass volumes
A sub designed like in the Rethm always allows you tailor it as per room and personal taste. A change to a more powerful amp will allow the single driver to go a bit lower which might necessitate a minor change in crossover. With Virens amp which was a 3 watter, my crossover was around 120hz. Now with Berning which is a 10 watter and way more linear in bass, I prefer the setting around 105 hz
Last edited by a moderator:
Prem,
presumably the passive volume control is some kind of Alps poti? I had this in a couple of integrated amps I tried and always felt it put a kind of veil on the music. I would be interested to hear what your impression is on this.
Thanks
Gemini
presumably the passive volume control is some kind of Alps poti? I had this in a couple of integrated amps I tried and always felt it put a kind of veil on the music. I would be interested to hear what your impression is on this.
Thanks
Gemini
Prem,
I visited forum today probably after a year or more, and found that you got a Berning. Congrats.
Long time ago, I have heard a Berning (don't remember which one). I also remember that once or twice I wrote about the Berning OTL amps in this forum, but did not get a discussion going on these amps. Probably nobody in India then knew enough about these.
What I remember about the sound signature matches quite well with your description - large bandwidth, huge transparency, and crystal clear sound. I thought, this might not be for everybody.
Happy to know that we have now at least one owner of a Berning here.
Regards
I visited forum today probably after a year or more, and found that you got a Berning. Congrats.
Long time ago, I have heard a Berning (don't remember which one). I also remember that once or twice I wrote about the Berning OTL amps in this forum, but did not get a discussion going on these amps. Probably nobody in India then knew enough about these.
What I remember about the sound signature matches quite well with your description - large bandwidth, huge transparency, and crystal clear sound. I thought, this might not be for everybody.
Happy to know that we have now at least one owner of a Berning here.
Regards
Last edited:
Lovely to hear from you Asit. How have you been? Any changes in your system? Still actively involved in concerts?
Hi Gemini
It's not an Alps pot. It's a Goldmund vol control. I don't hear any issues with it. In the past I have used Slagles autoformer vol control. For the last few years I have gone passive and have had no problems. In passive, the quality of vol control matters a lot.
Since the Slagle autoformer vol control could not be incorporated in Bernings design, I chose Goldmund, basis Bernings recommendation
Hi Gemini
It's not an Alps pot. It's a Goldmund vol control. I don't hear any issues with it. In the past I have used Slagles autoformer vol control. For the last few years I have gone passive and have had no problems. In passive, the quality of vol control matters a lot.
Since the Slagle autoformer vol control could not be incorporated in Bernings design, I chose Goldmund, basis Bernings recommendation
Last edited by a moderator:
GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
Welcome back Asit, long time..
I am doing fine, prem. Thanks, just a bit busy with my own stuff. Yes, I have the same set-up as before. The last addition was a Hagerman Cornet tube phono pre. It is a good design and worth much more than its price. The rest of the system is same, as you can see from my signature. The speakers are still going strong at the age of 26+ (nearly 27) years. I have done quite a bit of tube rolling in my amp, something that I can share, perhaps in my amp thread. I do not want to disrupt your thread. Yes, I still do concerts, but because of the demands of my profession, can do only a few during the year.
Do you still have the newer version of the Sadhnas for this amp?
George, thanks for your greetings. Do visit my new home once in Kolkata.
Regards.
Do you still have the newer version of the Sadhnas for this amp?
George, thanks for your greetings. Do visit my new home once in Kolkata.
Regards.
Great Asit. Yes I have the new version of the Saadhanas.
Yesterday had a small listening session with mpw and Dave, an ex forum member. Did a bit of tube rolling.
The Berning came with the GE 5965 tubes. George and Santhosh were kind enough to get me the Mullard CV 4003 which is a replacement for the GE 5965. It was a no contest. The GE 5965 completely thrashed the Mullards in practically every aspect.
The Mullards 4003 are extremely highly rated tubes. The experience we had last night just goes to show that there are no universal solutions. The design of the amp matters as to what tube works best with it
Yesterday had a small listening session with mpw and Dave, an ex forum member. Did a bit of tube rolling.
The Berning came with the GE 5965 tubes. George and Santhosh were kind enough to get me the Mullard CV 4003 which is a replacement for the GE 5965. It was a no contest. The GE 5965 completely thrashed the Mullards in practically every aspect.
The Mullards 4003 are extremely highly rated tubes. The experience we had last night just goes to show that there are no universal solutions. The design of the amp matters as to what tube works best with it
I am not surprised at all. I have had a similar experience with pre/driver tubes in my Leben.
Let me explain. I did a little reading on the 5965s. They seemed to me as belonging to the 12AT7 family, but of industrial grade, having lower gain and with extremely low noise.
Likewise, my Leben came GE 5751 driver tubes. They belong to the 12AX7 family, but 5751s have lower gain, much lower noise floor, and generally made for sturdy use.
Since then I have tried NOS Telfunken 12AX7 ribbed plates, Psvane 12AX7s and now the Sylvania 5751s (spent quite a lot doing so, completely opposite to my nature). Overall experience is that the 5751s do much better, and the Sylvania really dazzles in my amp. Both the 12AX7s (TFK and Psvane) are decent but get beaten squarely, especially by the Sylvania 5751s.
Hence, I guess, the lesson is, for the driver tubes, gain is not important. However, good build (lower microphonics) and lower noise floor is important.
Try and get a stock of GE 5965s while they are still available.
Regards.
But they probably have lower noise floor and lower microphonics. I am not sure, because I did not study those Mullards.
One word of caution, though, that should have been there in my previous post. If somebody thinks, as a result of what I have written above, any 12Ax7 in a particular implementation is replaceable by a 5751. That is not true. I asked Jim Hagerman if I could replace the 12AX7 in his Cornet phono by a 5751. He said, no, I couldn't. So, people should check.
Regards.
GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
Interesting take Prem( and Asit). My Transcendant Audio Grounded Grid preamp is designed by Bruce Roxenblit, and, unlike common perceptions about it, he is not a fan of tube rolling. Bottom line? I guess it works for some, some of the time but not all of the time.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
It's Goldpoint. Prem corrected that in post 83 above.
Buy from India's official online dealer!
Similar threads
