Getting the amplifier damping factor with speaker impedance right is important?

[IndianEars]

This is super helpful. Thank.
now to decide which speaker cable to cut (+ or -). They are factory terminated with banana plugs
You have also mentioned “

is there a good way of doing this?

Please, Most Certainly Do Not destroy your Speaker Cable by cutting it!

You are at an experimentation stage.

Simply wrap the resistor wire around one of the banana plugs & tape it with an elsatic insulation tape like 'Steelgrip' or use a heat shrink sleeve if you have .... The other wire of the resistor can be directly screwed into the amplifier or speaker terminal.

Another option would be to use Crocodile Clips attached to each side of the resistor.

Or even 2 Crocodile clips Back to back, connected by a Wire (see below)

 

[IndianEars]

In that case I will wait for a braver FM to try and report on th audible effects of adding resistors in series.
There are definitely rare occasional benefits of following the herd.

Analogous, From what I understand, you need to Deterorate / lower the damping factor of yr Karan to make your speakers more comfortable with the amp. A simple resistor is all you need.

If you buy just 2 resistors of 1 ohym (10 Watts) each, you can get

0.5 Ohms ( 2 resistors in parallel) and a damping factor of 16

1 Ohm (a single resistor used by itself) to get a damping factor of 8

2 Ohms ( 2 resistors in series) and a damping factor of 4.


Ofcourse if you are not comfortable, get help from a knowledgeable friend or avoid !

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

If the output impedance of the amplifier + the cable is low, then this reverse signal gets absorbed or as it is said damped, else it can resonate the speaker cone. So in a way the higher damping factor will arrest the reverse motion quickly

Absorbed where?

 

[arj]

There is really no downside to using a simple series resistor for reducing the effective damping factor of an amp + speaker combo.

This is exactly what Nelson Pass had told me when I was evaluating the pass labs /first watt amps..by email of course!

 

[arj]

This is super helpful. Thank.
now to decide which speaker cable to cut (+ or -). They are factory terminated with banana plugs
You have also mentioned “

is there a good way of doing this?

I am happy to lend you a short and decent speaker cable to test this..please do not cut a factory terminated one..!!

 

[IndianEars]

Absorbed where?

Absorbed by the amplifier (by its output stage)

 

[jayantadak]

In that case I will wait for a braver FM to try and report on th audible effects of adding resistors in series.
There are definitely rare occasional benefits of following the herd.

Excerpt from KEF- USA site

"Damping factors over ten are acceptable with numbers in the 50-100 range being a good average, but you may sometimes see numbers as high as 200 or 300 or even up into the low thousands."

Is there any standard value range to ascertain a good damping factor for an ideal amplifier/ AVR. I guess they may vary wrt the RMS power of the amplifier.

 

[IndianEars]

Excerpt from KEF- USA site

"Damping factors over ten are acceptable with numbers in the 50-100 range being a good average, but you may sometimes see numbers as high as 200 or 300 or even up into the low thousands."

Is there any standard value range to ascertain a good damping factor for an ideal amplifier/ AVR. I guess they may vary wrt the RMS power of the amplifier.

The general rule for amplifier Damping Factor is "The Bigger the better!"
As an example, the Karan Monoblocks offer an Exemplary Damping factor of 10,000 !!!!

Of course High damping Factor amps work well with most modern day speakers, which require control. It is one of the specifications that contribute to the legendary "Iron Fisted Grip" on speakers they are connected to.

Older and a few current day speakers, have been voiced with prolonged flutter of their diaphragms, to produce the desired sonic signature.

As another example, Most modern day speakers are made with an Inert Cabinet. However, some speakers (eg Audio Note UK) are made with non rigid cabinets, and the resonance of their wooden cabinets is factored into the sonic signature produced by these speakers.

To answer your question:
"Is there any standard value range to ascertain a good damping factor for an ideal amplifier/ AVR. I guess they may vary wrt the RMS power of the amplifier."

The general answer is that the highest possible damping factor is generally the most desirable, with most modern day speakers.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Can play around with the value, there is no danger to the amp or speakers, for ANY resistor value you may use.

There will be a small voltage drop across the resistor and hence can get pretty warm. WW resistors should be a minimum of 10 watts, else the resistor may get heated up which will further increase the resistance.

 

[Analogous]

Still waiting for a brave FM to try it and report back if there are any audible changes

 

[arj]

The general answer is that the highest possible damping factor is generally the most desirable, with most modern day speakers.

The keynote the words in bold. Usually highly efficient/sensitive speakers , horns and older speakers will be the opposite

 

[IndianEars]

arj, as you have observed (and highlighted) I choose my words carefully
(I have also reiterated the same point in that post & in my earlier posts too)

Hari, regarding your post # 52 I am not sure you have read my words before adding your comment.
My post # 34 states:
"A crude DIY quick fix to lower Damping Factor of a High DF amp, is to insert a 1 Ohm 10 Watt resistor in series with the speaker...."
I had also stated:
"There will be an approx 12% loss of power ( a 100 Watt amp ... down to 88 Watts approx) but no other negative side effect on the amp." ... so clearly the loss of power in the resistor will increase its temperature.

In my same post (#39) that you have quoted, I had also mentioned:
"You don't need a very fancy non inductive resistor, just a regular wirewound resistor (cost less than Rs 10 each)."

 

[Saviosiddharth]

I have pioneer sa 8800 vintage amplifier which speakers would be good for it...
Wharfedale LINTON Heritage are
MAGNAT TRANSPULS 1000 are any other suggestions

 

[availlyrics]

Still waiting for a brave FM to try it and report back if there are any audible changes

No need of bravery required here, this is a very safe way to hear sonic changes due to variations in damping factor .
What @IndianEars suggested is perfectly safe , as long as you don't short anything while changing wires or components with the main switch OFF.
Speaker impedance should at least 8 times or more than output impedance of an amp, to minimize its adverse effects on FR .
DF above 2 digits (>99) is good enough for normal folks. Beyond 400, laws of diminishing returns starts to apply

for further info

Audio Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor"

Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor" Myth - "A Damping Factor of 10 is High Enough" Myth - "All Amplifiers Have a High-Enough Damping Factor" Where did these Myths Originate? These myths seem to trace back to a well-known paper (PDF) written by Dick Pierce. His analysis shows that a...

benchmarkmedia.com

 

[availlyrics]

Any DIY fix to achieve the opposite - increase the damping factor of an amp? Or say, lower the impedance of the signal route starting from from the amp’s outlet? I’d think choice and contact of the connectors and cable could be one. What else?

If you are very good in analog electronics, upgrading PSU or changing output emitter resistors (assuming its a Class AB transistor amp) is one way of doing it .
WARNING This may void any warranty and / or permanently ruin a perfectly working system for no apparent sonic improvements.

Better option would be to reduce speaker cable lengths, using a reasonably good quality cable of a proper gauge and clean contacts regularly to reduce contact resistance of terminals and interconnects

 

[IndianEars]

No need of bravery required here, this is a very safe way to hear sonic changes due to variations in damping factor .
What @IndianEars suggested is perfectly safe , as long as you don't short anything and while changing wires or components with the main switch OFF.
Speaker impedance should at least 8 times or more than output impedance of an amp, to minimize its adverse effects on FR .
DF above 2 digits (>99) is good enough for normal folks

for further info

Audio Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor"

Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor" Myth - "A Damping Factor of 10 is High Enough" Myth - "All Amplifiers Have a High-Enough Damping Factor" Where did these Myths Originate? These myths seem to trace back to a well-known paper (PDF) written by Dick Pierce. His analysis shows that a...

benchmarkmedia.com

Yes, Absolutely safe as availlyrics has mentioned.

Anyone wants to try, I will send them 2 resistors of 1 Ohm each (or any other value u want) , as a free gift ! DM me

 

[availlyrics]

Yes, Absolutely safe as availlyrics has mentioned.

Anyone wants to try, I will send them 2 resistors of 1 Ohm each (or any other value u want) , as a free gift ! DM me

Resistors as a "Free gift" , I find this offer hard to "Resist"

 

[availlyrics]

I have pioneer sa 8800 vintage amplifier which speakers would be good for it...
Wharfedale LINTON Heritage are
MAGNAT TRANSPULS 1000 are any other suggestions

Just check that the impedance is 8 Ohms or above. Speaker choices are very subjective in nature