Getting true "hi-res"/ loss- less from Apple Music

[sachinchavan 15865]

This whole lossless on Apple Music, Airplay etc has been discussed at least in half a dozen threads so far. I find @mbhangui the resident expert on this. He helped me stream lossless Apple Music from my iPhone/iPad to my DAC (CXN) via AirPort Express (which I guess supports AirPlay 1). It works for CD quality, not for hi-res beyond certain resolution. The difference between this and when I Airplay (lossy, due to AirPlay 2) directly from the phone to CXN is palpable to my ears.

Another lossless way of streaming Apple Music is by selecting AirPlay globally (not from the app, but from the top right bar in Mac OS). I don’t know why that works (@mbhangui please explain if you know). But I don’t listen to it that way as the phone/iPad are lot more handy to work with than MacBook.

 

[jaiwant_alex]

This whole lossless on Apple Music, Airplay etc has been discussed at least in half a dozen threads so far. I find @mbhangui the resident expert on this.

Agreed. There are so many threads on this and a new one seems to start every week.
We should request @mbhangui to write up an apple music 'whitepaper'. All queries will be directed to said whitepaper and new threads on this topic deleted by the mods

 

[mbhangui]

Another lossless way of streaming Apple Music is by selecting AirPlay globally (not from the app, but from the top right bar in Mac OS). I don’t know why that works (@mbhangui please explain if you know). But I don’t listen to it that way as the phone/iPad are lot more handy to work with than MacBook.

When you select it globally in the top right bar, it is the mac os that does the negotiation with the remote airplay device. In this setting when you play music in apple music app, the app simply sends the music to the OS at 44.1kHz. It is not sending the music directly to the remote airplay device. The OS buffers the music and is able to maintain the streaming rate without drops.

When you select the airplay device in the apple music app, it is the apple music that does the negotiation with the remote airplay device. It doesn't have the same buffering capability as the OS does and hence depending on your network speed and latency it choses the AAC version mostly.

Similar things happen with when you use a non-apple certified device like wiim (especiatlly with airplay2). The sampling rate drops or the aac version is chosen. However if you use an apple-certified apple device like Marantz, you can do lossless even upto 96 kHz with airplay2 (i don't know if there are other AVR that are apple airplay2 certified). Airplay1 was cracked long time ago and that's the basis for shairport-sync linux package. airplay2 too has been cracked by open source developers in 2019. But I'm not sure if the same has been implemented correctly in the chinese products.

 

[amitanubha]

Apple tv4k supprts up to 48khz.Not more than that currently. Where as Iphone suooorts uktra high resolution music up to 192khz.
I have iphone any dac etc to connect to avr to get best music

And do you feel the difference is worth as this might help for me making a decision in terms of features as to which amp/dac/streamer. For ex most of integrated amps have usbb computer labelled input and support usb dac and Bluetooth but no wifi/airplay. If i buy them for now and i can satisfy my need for a high quality listen using wired connection( i dont mind getting up few times for change in playlist etc..) and dont need streamer/better dac immediately. Question: is tradeoff between having airplay 2 and better dac streamer(convenience) vs wired usb dac mode(may be a lesser quality DAC) is reasonable enough and save both space and money , plus widen my choices of amps. As my key consideration is to stick to a single device and not wanting 2 devices immediately

 

[ajuvignesh]

Apple tv4k supprts up to 48khz.Not more than that currently. Where as Iphone suooorts uktra high resolution music up to 192khz.
I have iphone any dac etc to connect to avr to get best music

iPhone support it only via its lightning/usb port as far as I know.

 

[Phani24]

Any dac is usefùl?

iPhone support it only via its lightning/usb port as far as I know.

 

[ajuvignesh]

Any dac is usefùl?

Yeah. Any decent dac will do. But you would need a camera connection kit or something to bring out the music from an iphone

 

[mbhangui]

I'm using a simple lightning to usb connector on my old iphone. The new models ones have usb-c so should work directly with a dac.

 

[alladinkachirag]

I'm using a simple lightning to usb connector on my old iphone. The new models ones have usb-c so should work directly with a dac.

Does your Lighting to USB cable work connected to DAC? Pls let me know what cable you have - I am connecting my iPhone 15 to Chord Mojo 2 using type C to type and it works well. But, I am unable to connect my iPhone 13 to Mojo using the stock apple charging cable (Lighting to Type C) - the Mojo does not get anything from iPhone 13.

 

[mbhangui]

Does your Lighting to USB cable work connected to DAC? Pls let me know what cable you have - I am connecting my iPhone 15 to Chord Mojo 2 using type C to type and it works well. But, I am unable to connect my iPhone 13 to Mojo using the stock apple charging cable (Lighting to Type C) - the Mojo does not get anything from iPhone 13.

I'm using a simple adaptor like this https://www.amazon.in/Sounce-Lightn...6787&sprefix=lightning+to+usb+,aps,842&sr=8-3

 

[Phani24]

Yeah. Any decent dac will do. But you would need a camera connection kit or something to bring out the music from an iphone

What is camera connection kit. I have bought 16plus 2days back

 

[mbhangui]

What is camera connection kit. I have bought 16plus 2days back

It is a highly overpriced adaptor made by god himself (the same god that gave you apple that started the whole thing about sin). This thing from apple gives you a glorious usb port from the lightning connector along with the ability to charge the phone while usb is being used. You can get the same result with a lightning to usb connector at 1/10th the cost.

 

[mbhangui]

Does your Lighting to USB cable work connected to DAC? Pls let me know what cable you have - I am connecting my iPhone 15 to Chord Mojo 2 using type C to type and it works well. But, I am unable to connect my iPhone 13 to Mojo using the stock apple charging cable (Lighting to Type C) - the Mojo does not get anything from iPhone 13.

Read this @alladinkachirag

Mojo and iPhone with Apple CCK or standard USB to Lightning cable user experience?

I have both, they sound the same to me and pass the correct bitrates to my DAC. I tend to favour the CCK at home as you can charge the device at the same time as playing, travelling I use standard Lightning to USB as it is smaller.

community.roonlabs.com

 

[ajuvignesh]

What is camera connection kit. I have bought 16plus 2days back

You can use a type c adapter to connect to the dac.

 

[alladinkachirag]

Read this @alladinkachirag

Mojo and iPhone with Apple CCK or standard USB to Lightning cable user experience?

I have both, they sound the same to me and pass the correct bitrates to my DAC. I tend to favour the CCK at home as you can charge the device at the same time as playing, travelling I use standard Lightning to USB as it is smaller.

community.roonlabs.com

Thank you @mbhangui . I bought the Lightning to USB adaptor you suggested, and got delivered this morning. And...it works! Money saved is money gained

 

[Phani24]

After using the Wiim Pro for streaming (Airplay) for quite some, I decided to try and explore true hi- res by connecting the iphone / ipad directly to my Schiit Modi+ DAC. Airplay is limited to (I think) 24/48 or 24/96 and going by the data on the net, it seemed that the Airplay 2 is quite temperamental. I had connected the iphone directly to my amp earlier using the Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2 and a cheap Amazon lightning to USB A converter. The Dragonfly is again limited to 24/96. Using the connector from Amazon I also wasnt sure what I was getting. I have also used Apple's own lightning to 3.5mm adapter but that is limited to 24/48 and sounds very flat.

I also wanted to exploit the full 24/192 of the Schiit Modi +. After some reading on the net, I came across the Lightning to USB3 connection kit from Apple. Its quite expensive for being just a connector- INR 4,000 being the MRP.
Schiit Audio recommends it for connecting their DACs to the iphone.

View attachment 84422

As per Audioquest as well, it is better to use this version of the adapter (USB 3) rather than cheap connectors to ensure bit perfect delivery of audio to the DAC. This connector also allows for parallel charging of iphones/ipads since it has 2 USB ports.

As per Audioquest:

View attachment 84423

Thankfully the adapter worked flawlessly with the Schiit and the difference is quite startling. I noticed the retreival of smaller details, wider soundstage and the ability of music to now come from a space outside the speakers.

Its a huge step up from Airplay and the cheapest way to experience hi res from Apple. I use my apple watch to control the play list on the phone when it is physically connected to the DAC/amp thereby eliminating the inconvenience of getting up each time to change the track.

Thought of sharing this in case it helps anyone with a similar question.

View attachment 84424
View attachment 84425

I have connected my Iphone 16plus to Eversolo z8 dac through usb c port using c to c . But aysio pcm 44.1 only.
Then downloaded applemusic in my laptop and connected tgrough usb b port now is 48Hz only.
Apple music limited to 48hz only ?
Pls help

 

[Phani24]

Any way to get 24bit 192khz.Pls advice

 

[Phani24]

Here is a test which someone else conducted on ASR and posted with Apple music (from Ipad) and a lightning to USB3 connection kit. DAC used for testing was RME ADI-2
View attachment 84427

On a Topping:

View attachment 84428

Any album with 192 khz to test

 

[ajuvignesh]

Any album with 192 khz to test

You can try Michael Jackson's Thriller.

 

[ajuvignesh]

I have connected my Iphone 16plus to Eversolo z8 dac through usb c port using c to c . But aysio pcm 44.1 only.
Then downloaded applemusic in my laptop and connected tgrough usb b port now is 48Hz only.
Apple music limited to 48hz only ?
Pls help

As long as you get 24 bit, don't worry. You cannot hear the difference between 48khz 192 Khz.