Guidance with protecting my gears

[navin119]

Anyone has any inputs with regards to my queries?
Thanks

I assume these days we are using sinewave inverter. Are these also not recommended for use with AVR? @sud98

 

[sud98]

There are pure sinewave ups. Not sure if there are pure sinewave inverters. Can you share me a link of the product?

 

[raghupb]

There are pure sinewave ups. Not sure if there are pure sinewave inverters. Can you share me a link of the product?

An inverter is a simple DC-to-AC conversion device. Add a battery to it, it becomes a UPS.
These days, home inverters are sinewave "enough".
They are not like the modified square wave models that were used for PC/CCTV backup.
Any SMPS device can be connected to modified square models.
For devices with transformers, it is advisable to use a UPS system with a sine wave generator.

Off-line UPS - device that operates on battery when mains is out, otherwise it is feed through (maybe with some voltage correction)
On-line UPS - always works on battery, double conversion; one mains charge the battery and the inverter gives out AC.

@navin119
One may choose to add the servo stabilizer:
- before the UPS, catering for whole house lighting or single phase circuits
- after the UPS, say for AV equipment only

With a 5KVA model you do have the option of using it before the UPS itself.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[KNRAMU]

I have already bought a 5KVa servo stabiliser. The cost is almost same as a 3 KVa stabiliser. Are there any disadvantages with the higher capacity, in case my load is much lesser?

No problem with higher capacity servo stabilizer using with very less load.

 

[navin119]

Thanks.
1. So 5 KVa is no issue, even if the load is much lesser.
2. Can split the output of the stabilizer through sinewave inverter, if required

 

[deepak.nair]

Is Rontek available to purchase online ?

 

[Love4sound]

Is Rontek available to purchase online ?

I have been trying to contact them for a month. No response to calls and emails. Are the still in business?

 

[headcase]

There was a thread somewhere on avsforum where a woman engineer explained it beautifully and same was the advice from my local electronics repair guy.

If you live in an area where u get clean power and no fluctuations. Find that out for urself first. Then u don't need any of these devices.

If there's ever a surge big enough, no amount of man made surge protector can save it. Rare/unlucky chance where even with these devices it'll go bad.

Best advice: Always keep ur gear switched off from the mains when not using. That's it. Always protected.

I know it's a task and we're lazy sometimes but it helps specially during rainy season. Modern solution: get a smart socket plug for the mains from Amazon. U can on/off from ur mobile/Alexa/Google

 

[Hari Iyer]

Don't all these devices raise impedance and hence ruin the SQ?

 

[superczar]

Don't all these devices raise impedance and hence ruin the SQ?

How can a mains switch (smart or otherwise) raise impedance?

 

[Hari Iyer]

How can a mains switch (smart or otherwise) raise impedance?

I am not talking about main switch but about UPS, Inverters, power conditioners, surge suppressors, isolation transformer s etc. Having these devices in series with audio gear will raise impedance loosing dynamic response, transient response and clarity in your music. In my setup i have always found connecting directly to wall outlet has always worked for me and not otherwise. YMMV..

 

[Subbu68]

We can't have a separate generating station with a hyper performance parameters of primary response time of 0.05 cycles (1ms) and zero impedance connected with super conductors for the audio gear so that all transient response and steady states are preserved.

We power engineers love some impedance so that if you have a short circuit in your mixie or fan or lamp you won't get thousands of amperes flowing in to burn down everything behind before a protection device can operate and isolates the fault..

Highest fault rating generally is 50kA for 3 sec in Low Voltage 415V while at high voltage generally it is 63kA OR 40kA for 1 sec at 400kV. Your household distribution boards may melt and vapourize at 10kA or so.

Can't have zero impedance networks - short circuit means infinite current!!!

Yes, UPS and such inverters introduce harmonics due to the working principles behind them. Carefully designed power / isolation transformers could remove these disturbances.

Even if you don't use a UPS, your neighbor who is connected to the same network or even your mobile chargers, LED lights, a/cs with inverter control, and computer power supplies will be injecting harmonics into the system. These will result in distortion of voltage wave form that present to your audio's power input and create harmonics into your audio too. A harmonic voltage will cause similar current in the load unless you can identify it and take measures to neutralize it.

Live with it...

 

[Subbu68]

There was a thread somewhere on avsforum where a woman engineer explained it beautifully and same was the advice from my local electronics repair guy.

If you live in an area where u get clean power and no fluctuations. Find that out for urself first. Then u don't need any of these devices.

If there's ever a surge big enough, no amount of man made surge protector can save it. Rare/unlucky chance where even with these devices it'll go bad.

Best advice: Always keep ur gear switched off from the mains when not using. That's it. Always protected.

I know it's a task and we're lazy sometimes but it helps specially during rainy season. Modern solution: get a smart socket plug for the mains from Amazon. U can on/off from ur mobile/Alexa/Google

+1

I have implemented a IFTTT switch with 2 pole isolation even though getting a surge inside my house is remote (being cable all the way from 400kV down to house other than for faults or switching surges that the friendly impedances on the way absorb these). Pick the mobile and "Hey Google switch off Audio".

 

[mbhangui]

Even if you don't use a UPS, your neighbor who is connected to the same network or even your mobile chargers, LED lights, a/cs with inverter control, and computer power supplies will be injecting harmonics into the system. These will result in distortion of voltage wave form that present to your audio's power input and create harmonics into your audio too. A harmonic voltage will cause similar current in the load unless you can identify it and take measures to neutralize it.

Live with it...

Exactly my tought behind putting a stabilizer to protect all my equipment. And what do you do when you have a perennial high voltage in Pune. The extra 10-20 volts more than compensates for the impedance added by the stabilizer. I have found LED lights, mobile chargers, various SMPS the worst offenders. But there is a limit to which you can avoid them. Like you said, your neighbour will be using the same and all units are electrically connected in multi-unit dwellings. So one just has to live with it, unless you can generate your own power and isolate yourself from the rest.

Pick the mobile and "Hey Google switch off Audio".

I do the same with a dedicated google home mini and a 3 gang switch based on the esp8266 chip. Don't even have to pick up the mobile. I just have to say
Ok google 'switch on music amplifier', 'switch on audio switch', 'switch on yamaha avr' with this switch.

These switches are often based on ESP8266, ESP32, etc and there are enough open source firmware to use if you don't like the stock chinese firmware they come with.

A First Look at Tasmota Open Source Firmware for ESP Devices

Firmware provides an open alternative for IoT devices based on ESP8266 and ESP32.

www.rs-online.com

 

[Subbu68]

I do the same with a dedicated google home mini and a 3 gang switch based on the esp8266 chip. Don't even have to pick up the mobile. I just have to say
Ok google 'switch on music amplifier', 'switch on audio switch', 'switch on yamaha avr' with this switch.

You gave an option

Currently have a two gang Sonoff. One channel for amps, pre and sources and 2nd for sub. They are set in a sequence.

When switching on, sub switches on 5sec later to avoid the surge. When switching off, sub goes off first and 10 sec later the amp.

Have a 4 gang in my stash. One each for sub, tube amp, ACAs and source + pre. I will get them to switch on in a sequence source + pre, sub, amp and two separate sequences for Elekit tube and ACAs. Need to take care of earthing though.

 

[headcase]

A voltage stabilizer should be sufficient.

If wanna go deep with signals & electricity quality, change the whole house wiring to high grade wiring first. Then the gear>connects>wires come into picture.

In Japan, auidophiles are crazy to the extent to have their own private electricity poles outside their . Yeah that crazy!

 

[Subbu68]

If wanna go deep with signals & electricity quality, change the whole house wiring to high grade wiring first. Then the gear>connects>wires come into picture.

In Japan, auidophiles are crazy to the extent to have their own private electricity poles outside their . Yeah that crazy!

You nailed it...

Off-topic a bit

house wiring with Silver plated tubular busbars for distribution board (lower skin effect) with, silver soldered joints for all circuit breakers with silver contacts and wire the house with stranded and twisted silver conductor wires (low resistance and inductance) in earthed copper tubes to shield --- Phew ....went a bit hyperbolic

But those Russians who designed and built the Vizag steel plant BF-2 had all these silver contacts for breakers and contactors, copper busbars and cabled with pure copper cables. The minister pushed the button and nothing worked though it worked on trial run. Now what??? all those silver contacts and copper cables were gone melted in some silversmith shop somewhere!!!! L&T Powai supplied replacement panels with practical aluminium busbars and all equipment cabled with aluminium cables.

Let us enjoy hi-fi within our limits before the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in, applying engineering and economics.

Aha, we have the solution for these purists - Hydrogen fuel cells to generate own power at home. Seriously, more than 230,000 units were in use in 2018. From "Strategic Energy Plan - Japan 2018"

 

[headcase]

You nailed it...

Off-topic a bit

house wiring with Silver plated tubular busbars for distribution board (lower skin effect) with, silver soldered joints for all circuit breakers with silver contacts and wire the house with stranded and twisted silver conductor wires (low resistance and inductance) in earthed copper tubes to shield --- Phew ....went a bit hyperbolic

But those Russians who designed and built the Vizag steel plant BF-2 had all these silver contacts for breakers and contactors, copper busbars and cabled with pure copper cables. The minister pushed the button and nothing worked though it worked on trial run. Now what??? all those silver contacts and copper cables were gone melted in some silversmith shop somewhere!!!! L&T Powai supplied replacement panels with practical aluminium busbars and all equipment cabled with aluminium cables.

Let us enjoy hi-fi within our limits before the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in, applying engineering and economics.

Aha, we have the solution for these purists - Hydrogen fuel cells to generate own power at home. Seriously, more than 230,000 units were in use in 2018. From "Strategic Energy Plan - Japan 2018"

View attachment 69418

I'd rather buy bigger better speakers than keep changing gears n wiring alone

One can get so much improvement by experimenting with acoustic correction/treatment/placement itself Hardly paid attention though

 

[headcase]

On a serious note try forming an equilateral triangle for placement for a square room & Isosceles triangle for a rectangular room. Bring listening position closer to speakers in latter case.

Should make a difference. Minimal furniture in between the speakers n gear n in room over all. 50-60% carpeting. Rest absorption panels if further required. Bass traps for smaller rooms also if possible.

Pic for reference

 

[mbhangui]

But those Russians who designed and built the Vizag steel plant BF-2 had all these silver contacts for breakers and contactors, copper busbars and cabled with pure copper cables. The minister pushed the button and nothing worked though it worked on trial run. Now what??? all those silver contacts and copper cables were gone melted in some silversmith shop somewhere!!!! L&T Powai supplied replacement panels with practical aluminium busbars and all equipment cabled with aluminium cables.

Silver is nothing. Here in India you put copper strips for lightning rod conductor it gets stolen. The conductor for earth gets stolen ASAP. At Chennai Citibank Data Center, stealing of the copper earthing strip used to be the most pilfered item.
With the current rates of aluminium, even aluminium isn't safe I guess.