rishiguru
Well-Known Member
Excellent comparisions and background info on these monsters.
Thanks for the complements.
As a current owner of a DSP-A1, do you have any thoughts on the audio quality differences beween the A1 and the Z9. Looking at the audio section specs in the user manuals they are very similar other than power output, frequency response (FR) bandwidth - though the A1 shows that it is close to flat over 20-20kHz +/-0.5db. I am usually interested in THD, S/N, dynamic headroom, FR and channel separation.
Except both being Yamahas, DSP-A1 and DSP-Z9 are poles apart in terms of design philosophy and goals their engineers tried to meet during their development phases. In other words they are two very different AV amplifiers from different planets having very different levels of refinements in audio quality, video quality and mechanical construction.
Yamaha DSP-A1 [Released in 1997]
Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Released in 2004]
While AV amplifiers like DSP-A1 are built primarily keeping HT in mind, with DSP-Z9 Yamaha followed the path of Pure Audio Fidelity. With almost two times the price of DSP-A1 the components used are of much higher quality and so is the HiFi influenced engineering. Below I have highlighted an analog and two digital audio aspects of DSP-Z9 which makes it stand out from any other AV amplifier even today.
Analog Audio
Current AVRs irrespective of price or category use transistor switches in its circuitry for routing analog input signals inside the AVR. This solution widely used among AV amplifier manufacturers provides fast switching and are very cost effective. But these solid state switches may induce a little noise or distortion in the input analog signal. DSP-Z9 being an Uber on the other hand dumps this cost effective solution for Pure Audio Fidelity. Just like high end stereo equipments it uses high quality, expensive gold plated mechanical relays as switches imposing no noise or distortion on the input analog signal, faithfully following HiFi pedigree in its technical design. Thus DSP-Z9 is slow during startup, takes at around 15 seconds while performing a series of mechanically audible clicks emanated from multiple relays before it actually starts producing any sound. Here analog 2-channel Pure Direct is really direct and purely sublime.
Use of Gold-Plated Relays in DSP-Z9
Digital Audio
In DSP-Z9 the digital audio signals are processed at upto 24-bits, 96 kHz. Only when a 192 kHz signal is detected will it down-sample to 96 kHz to perform DSP processing. Using nine DSP processors it was capable to perform six times greater DSP capacity than its predecessor DSP-AZ1 (capable of 24-bits, 48 kHz max) and be on-par with DVD-A & SACD sound quality. DSP-Z9s processing ability was so ahead of its time that three years down the line when HD-Audio ready DSP-Z11 was introduced it sported the same 24-bits, 96 kHz max processing ability and so was five years later released DSP-Z7.
During Direct PCM/ DSD digital modes the input digital audio signal are fed directly to the internal power amplifier bypassing all types of processing or digital management at upto 24-bits, 192 kHz. Here the use of quality DACs becomes very important as they will in the end of the digital signal chain finally convert and convey the digital audio signal in analog power amp domain. As such DSP-Z9 uses the best DACs currently implemented in any AV amplifier aka the most expensive Burr-Brown PCM1792 for all of its 11 individual audio channels.
Burr-Brown PCM1792 as used in DSP-Z9
Only the ESS E9018 has better performance than PCM1792, but then again no AV amplifier uses it as of now. Below is a chart comparing various DACs used in many AVRs (For more details refer Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity).
DAC Chart
Note: All DAC data is, in dB. Typical values are black. Guaranteed minimum limits are shown in RED. SNR values are with an A-weighed filter in the signal path. Part marked SI have a single ended output. Parts marked Bal have balanced outputs.
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Your DSP-A1 is the fourth evolution of the Yamaha DSP-A1000 released way back in 1990. It is so very reveling from the internal construction and positioning of the main components (highlighted in different matching colors) inside these Yamaha AV-amplifiers as the same design is followed over and over through successive models with further refinements as depicted below:
Yamaha DSP-A1000 [Released in 1990]
Yamaha DSP-A2070 [Released in 1992]
Yamaha DSP-A3090 [Released in 1995]
Yamaha DSP-A1 [Released in 1997]
Yamaha DSP-AX1 [Released in 1999]
Yamaha DSP-AZ1 [Released in 2001]
Now have a look below at DSP-Z9 internals. Nothing here can be related to the former six TOTL AV amplifier models from Yamaha.
Yamaha DSP-Z9 [Released in 2004]
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Look how the different audio & video circuit boards are exposed in Yamaha DSP-A1.
Yamaha DSP-A1 Internal Shot
Yamaha DSP-Z9 Internal Shot
Now look at the complete absence of 11-channel analog and digital audio pre-amplifier boards as well the video boards from the picture of DSP-Z9. The truth is they are hidden completely in separate electromagnetically shielded chambers which again proves its HiFi pedigree.
Yamaha DSP-Z9 Analog, Digital & Video Boards hidden in separate electromagnetically shielded chambers
I'd be interested in any listensing comparisions of the analogue vs pure direct modes of these units.
I once read a great personal review of DSP-Z9/ RX-Z9. The person was also comparing it with his own DSP-AX1/ RX-V1. The DSP-AX1 is the successor to your DSP-A1 and is said to be bit more refined. The reviewer is really knowledgeable and his subjective review will provide an in depth view to what you are looking about. Below are his quoted review and web link.
Yamaha RX-Z9 Review
Review by cjfrbw (A) on December 14, 2004 at 18:21:01
I thought I would do an AA thing for this receiver/ processor. I will not cover every detail; there are several thorough articles on the operation of the RX Z9 unit.
I will stick with my consumer oriented observations. I purchased the RX-Z9 as an upgrade to my previous Yamaha RX-V1. I made the upgrade because of:
1. The increased processing density of the sound fields in the RX-Z9
2. The included video processor/ scaler in the RX-Z9, which would simplify my home theatre setup. I could sell my outboard scaler and its cables
3. My satisfaction with previous Yamaha products.
My home theatre is a 120 inch diagonal screen with a CRT projector. My home theatre is combined with my main stereo system, a separate tubed system for audio only. I switch to the tubes system for music and use an electronic crossover and separate amps for the main speakers. When watching movies or TV, I use a passive crossover with the main speakers and use the Yamaha RX Z9 as the exclusive processor/amp.
When I have the tubed audio system engaged, I shut off the "A" speaker amplifier in the RX-Z9 and run a preamp feed to the RX-Z9 so that I can use the music surround modes in combination with my tubed audio system.
I have been a fan of the Yamaha surround modes since the Yamaha DSP-1 surround preamp, which I used for many years. I have used an ambience recovery system with my stereo system since 1978, when I purchased the first Advent SoundSpace Control, which fed ambience and hall size information to two rear channels.
I have never understood why ambience recovery systems have never caught on with audiophiles and only since home theatre has multichannel of any kind come into any kind of use or popularity. The traditional audiophile still tends to be a two channel die hard. When I was less well heeled, ambience recovery seemed to be a logical thing to have.
You hear of audiophiles who spend huge amounts on equipment, but never touch their rooms or do room treatments. There are audiophiles who spend gobs on their rooms, and they wind up with a single (usually small) listening space, that may be good for what it is, but is still limited in its ability to convey a sense of space or dimension outside of the two dimensional presentation of the main stereo system. Currently, there is another group who use digital processing systems to tailor the frequency response of the main stereo pair to the room acoustics, but this requires digital processing of the main stereo signal in the digital realm, no pure analog, and still leaves a tailored small space.
With a good ambience recovery system, the flaws of a small listening space are merged into the soundstage presentation of a much larger acoustic space. Ambience recovery is incredibly effective at smoothing presentation, enlarging the sound space, scotching nodes and standing waves, creating presence, and reinforcing midrange and bass richness. The listening room still needs to be treated for frequency balance below 200 Hz, but otherwise, the acoustic space that is heard is from the ambience recovery, and is much closer to the kind of acoustic space in which music is actually performed. It is very effective. I have never once wanted to listen to stereo sources without some kind of ambience recovery since my original Advent Soundspace Control.
Yamaha has always taken its ambience recovery modes from microphone recordings done in real listening venues, and that is a good thing. They also add front presence speakers, which fill out the stage depth and height. No other home theatre receiver offers the front presence speakers. The different listening modes offer a lot of choice, and there are always a few modes that work out well with particular types of music.
At some point, Yamaha stopped offering its digital sound space technology in separate components and merged them into its receiver line. At first, I was a little annoyed with this. After the RX V1, however, I realized that this made sense to combine the amps and the processor in on chassis, especially with the additional complexity of home theatre. It certainly cuts down on the need for cabling and conserves space. I use an 8.1 channel setup with Apogee Speakers up front and front center, small Infinity speakers for the front presence channels, small Apogees for the rear surround, and a Klipsch rear center surround with two Klipsch subwoofers, so the surround system is a mixed bag of speakers. This is generally not a problem with surround system, because the surround channels are generally contain a lot of un-phased reverberation and ambience and don't necessarily need to match.
Amplifier Quality: The amplifiers in the RX-Z9 are much improved over the RX-V1. Although I thought the amps in the RX V1 were quite good for what they were, I wouldn't have called them audiophile grade. I prefer tubed amps for music, because I find that transistors will glare, flatten, grey or smear at some point, no matter how good the quality. The amplifiers in the RX-Z9 are not only more powerful than those in the RX-V1, they have outstanding sound quality. I would call the amplifiers in the RX-Z9 audiophile or close to audiophile quality. They can play music with clarity and coherence with negligible compromise. I was really surprised at how good these were in a receiver type component. I didn't try the pure direct mode in two channels, but I suspect that it must be outstanding, because the regular amp mode is so good.
Surround Modes: The surround modes in the RX-Z9 have triple the sound density of the RX-V1 due to greater computing power. They are better than ever, and are the most natural sounding that I have heard. The DSP-A1 and the RX-V1 sounded good in the surround modes, but when the sound fields became "wet", they could become oppressive. I usually stuck to fairly dry surround modes. In the RX-Z9, even the dense, wet sound fields sound quite natural. I was thrilled with this, because I use the ambience recovery sound fields for music listening as well as home theatre.
Movie Surround Modes: The RX-Z9 offers everything in the book, from discrete 9.1 channel digital/ 96/24 DTS, to synthesized multichannel modes (DTS Neo 6.1, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, etc). This makes it great to listen to with standard TV sources as well as movies. I have a cable box that sends out HDTV signals at 1080i and digital sound. I actually prefer Yamahas proprietary 70mm movie modes to the standard DTS and Dolby or THX modes. The move surround performance is stunningly good. I use "The Matrix" as a kind of bellwether. The scene where Neo wakes up in the jelly bath and sees the Matrix for the first time the way it really is has some pretty astounding surround effects, with deep bass and crackling lightening and very wide deep sound. This scene never ceases to astound with the surround. It is mesmerizing through the RX-Z9. I have seen several HDTV movies with 5.1 soundtracks, including the Last Samurai, and the sound processing of the RX-Z9 is top notch, with crisp, audible dialog and involving sound.
Video Processing: I have used a couple of scalers, including the i-scan and the focus quadscan pro combined with a faroudja comb filter/ composite to component converter. The video scaler/processor in the Yamaha RX-Z9 is the best I have seen and is even better than the progressive scan output of my Sony DVP NS900v DVD player. It has better visual and color range and shadow detail, with negligible motion artifacts. It is very sharp, and seems to excel at recovering all available detail.
Unfortunately, copyrighted material will only display at 480p, and will not scale to the available 720p or 1080i modes. This is less of a problem than it seems with DVD, because most are anamorphic, and when "squeezed" actually have about 700p resolution in the picture area. In anamorphic mode DVD, no scanning lines are visible and the picture is sharp. The "squeezed" 480p picture of the RX-Z9 is not shamed by the 1080i HDTV picture from my cable box. However, the HDTV 1080i direct signal from the cable box is noticeably sharper and more saturated, as you would expect from HDTV.
The RX-Z9 does not have DVI input and output. I don't really care, because I plan to use CRT projectors anyway, and the picture quality on my 120 inch diagonal screen is outstanding without it. I am not really a fan of this technology; it is really a copy protection scheme even though it is marketed as a direct digital technology. My cable box does not use it, and transmits an HDTV signal that is of outstanding quality through its component outputs into the RX-Z9. It is nice to have a scaler in the receiver because, again, it cuts down on cables and complexity for non HDTV and non scaled sources. I will be selling my other scaling components.
Automatic room equalization with included Microphone: I admit I was a little skeptical of this technology. However, it extremely useful because of the many speakers and amplifiers in the home theatre setup. Basically, you set the microphone in your preferred seating position and the RX-Z9 runs test tones that automatically give you speaker distance, phasing, size (frequency range), volume levels and perform parametric equalization to make dissimilar speakers the same in frequency range and response. I wound up tweaking it some, because I preferred more bass than allowed by the automatic equalization, but the automatic room correction is really invaluable for finding incorrect phasing, time aligning speaker output because of asymmetric speaker positioning, and setting output levels for a myriad of speakers throughout the room. It is certainly a lot better than guessing at these, and I realized that complex home theatre/surround setups really require this type of technology to be set up at their best. I would count this as another desirable feature of the unit. There are three separate configurations for using two different subwoofers with multiple crossover points available, also extremely useful for bass management and tailoring the sound of the setup.
The GUI is a pleasure to use and us quite easy to navigate with its own remote. After the automatic equalization, you can view the compensation curves for the various speakers.
The RX-Z9 will decode multi channel DSD/SACD directly from a digital stream through its iLink hookup, though I could not test it since I don't have an i-link component. Also, if you use the multi channel direct inputs to connect a multi channel source, the digital processing soundfield modes can be used. I hooked up the SACD 5.1 output from the Sony DVP N900v to the direct multichannel input mode, and was surprised to hear the surround processing engaged. In the RX-V1, the multi channel input was volume controlled only, and did not go through the surround processing circuitry.
All in all, this is a great component. The high quality of the amplifiers makes it suitable as a true all in one audiophile component, a genuine surprise to me in a receiver type component. I love the surround modes for both music and home theatre and the inclusion of the video processor allows for greater efficiency and convenience in my CRT based home theatre.
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Product Weakness: No DVI input or output, need to connect these directly to monitor without going through the RX-Z9.
Product Strengths: Excellent Amplifier Quality, Surround Modes, GUI interface, Automatic Setup.
Web Link: General Asylum: REVIEW: Yamaha RX-Z9 Receiver by cjfrbw
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