Hmmm so Class D it is : the future of audio

[jai1611]

My perspective was not to ROON or streamer service.


But rather we are beginning to see the active speakers powered by class d (as active speaker components) in a connected system ......so no need for interconnects/speaker cables. (Possibly the cable snakeoil will be evolved out

DSPs for room corrections etc.


So a smartphone/media player with active speakers.


PS: QUALCOMM has already announced the ApTX lossless. So it will interesting how this integrated.

Apple music is also going to churn a lot....in lossless/Hi-res music market.

That may be tougher. Active speakers have been ruling the pro market for decades now but adoption in home hifi is still low. My theory is that audiophiles enjoy tweaking a bit too much, making actives less interesting.

Separately, is your "cables are snakeoil" comment based on your own experience or just dogma from ASR?

 

[jai1611]

Is there really a vinyl resurgence?

I reserve my opinion. Vinyl is a noisy format. I am yet it see the millennials crazy about vinyl. (So after 10-20 years, let's see what vinyl does )

Seems to be real: https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/7699.jpeg

Remember high end audio isnt a growth market (in volume terms) so this demand cant just be from there

 

[Bloom@83]

Is there really a vinyl resurgence?

I reserve my opinion. Vinyl is a noisy format. I am yet it see the millennials crazy about vinyl. (So after 10-20 years, let's see what vinyl does )

Aren't purifi https://purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/ SOTA?

Yes , noisy , fussy and way better sounding for any recording made prior to 1990s than any other format , except perhaps reel-to-reels.

 

[Analogous]

Is there really a vinyl resurgence?

I reserve my opinion. Vinyl is a noisy format. I am yet it see the millennials crazy about vinyl. (So after 10-20 years, let's see what vinyl does )

Aren't purifi https://purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/ SOTA?

@Enkay78, you might have provoked some strong reactions with the comment. You have to stay strong and resilient when the storm hits. Bend like the blade of grass in the strong winds.
Or you could say something conciliatory right now and hope for good weather.

 

[Lizard King]

Is there really a vinyl resurgence?

Between ASR dogma and vinyl dogma, my money is on the later. Even after discounting for bias
But my is a gentle rebuke, not a strong reaction as @Analogous has predicted..

 

[Kannan]

SOTA - Step On The Accelerator

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Paul spouts a lots of audiophoolery BS……but damn he is one of the pioneers for ‘selling’ audionirvana……with substandard highly inflated ‘engineering’.

Like many so called hi end companies PS audio does engineering in stuff that doesn’t improve audio experience to the end user unless he ships tons of placebo with the product

 

[bluestar]

a quick hack which may be well known but I have only recently discovered ..... a tube pre ! recently added a tube pre to a class AB and also tried a tube pre with class D and IMO was right mix of 'soul' and ' precision.' Highly recommend if you want the flavor without the 'fatness' of pure tube on tube pre and power.

 

[IndianEars]

Did you get SLAM from Class D ?

Which Pre & Power Amp brands (AB, Class D & Tube) are you using ?

 

[OM_2K19]

One does not need foresight. Various technologies are already there.
- Phone/Tablet to system via bluetooth
- Streaming services
- Wireless sub-woofer or inter-speaker signal transmission

And now with companies actually paying serious attention to integrated systems, the game is taken to next level.
Late last year, I had the opportunity to host and play around with KEF LS50W II (based on the Meta tech).
I was stunned by the amount of system integration and technology present in 2 small boxes.
- Speaker integration via Meta material UniQ drivers
- On board custom amps per driver (280W class-D for LF, 100W class-AB for HF)
- Wireless streaming services (all the popular services available today)
- Wireless transmission from master to slave speaker
- Bluetooth support
- all kinds of audio/file formats, PCM, MQA, DSD, etc
- HDMI eARC, Optical, Coax inputs and dedicated subwoofer output per speaker
- Customizable DSP/EQ
- Stable app for Android/IoS

I heard LS50W and LS50W II side-by-side at the showroom.
Immediately, I could perceive a difference in sound presentation.
When I heard the new ones in my living room, they were something else.
I have taken a few years to build up my audio rig over many years, component by component.
This system in comparison had everything that I currently have and possibly want in near future seamlessly integrated.
Is it a perfect system, no. Is it a workable system, definitely yes.
Is is simple enough for the average Joe; all you need are 2 power sockets and a data connection to keep rockin'

Sound quality: Accurate (as @keith_correa says, balls-on accurate)
Sound adjustment: Many possibilities with a combination of placement and EQ
Connectivity: Wired/Wireless, digital, analog, TV and subwoofer
Aesthetics: A fine looking pair of speakers; no clutter, absolute minimum are 2 power cords

Then there are companies like Buchardt, Devialet, Lyngdorf, B&W, NAD, etc that are spearheading various integration curves.
We as hobbyists just need to take off our old jaded glasses, probably faded too, and consider what's out there.
New and efficient tech is all around us. We just need to give it a try and accept that it is here to stay.

In the past few years I have heard class-D from:
- NAD (Masters), wow
- the humble Crown lineup
- Allo (love what a tiny, dinky little box can do)
- KEF
- and a few BT speakers

I would boldly say in the coming decade class-D, wireless and DSP tuning are going to become mainstay even in the "audiophile" universe.

Cheers,
Raghu

I second you on everything you mentioned about LS50Wii. KEF has done an excellent job accommodating so much tech in those boxes. All one needs is just two Power sockets, a network connection, and he can start enjoying the Music without having to deal with the hassles like amplifier matching/cables and the whole chain. I firmly believe compact tech is the future, maybe in the form of Active Speakers or 'Single Box' solutions like Unity Atom.

 

[Lizard King]

a quick hack which may be well known but I have only recently discovered ..... a tube pre ! recently added a tube pre to a class AB and also tried a tube pre with class D and IMO was right mix of 'soul' and ' precision.' Highly recommend if you want the flavor without the 'fatness' of pure tube on tube pre and power.

Makes sense. Marantz does something 'similar' with it's flagship PM10. A/B preamp and Hypex NCore modules as double mono power amp with separate power supplies for all of them.

 

[Ashwin84]

I paired crown xls 1502 class d amp with dali opticon 6. Improved sound quality drastically as the speakers needed that extra amplification to really come alive. Infact recently so many manufacturers are switching to class d amps from class a, a/b . Class d amps are definitely the future.

 

[Lizard King]

I paired crown xls 1502 class d amp with dali opticon 6. Improved sound quality drastically as the speakers needed that extra amplification to really come alive. Infact recently so many manufacturers are switching to class d amps from class a, a/b . Class d amps are definitely the future.

Improvement by adding a power amp will be there as long as it caters to the additional power requirement of the speakers in question. I added Crown XLS 2502 to drive Focal Aria 926 and it didn't help the SQ beyond being louder. Possibly because my amplifier was already adequate for these easy to drive speakers. What I needed was better low impedance drivability as the impedance for the 926 falls really low in the lower frequency, making it bass shy with many amplifiers. In that context the Crown didn't help at all.
Like everything else in audio it's synergy that comes with trial and error.

 

[Analogous]

Here is a comparison of a recent class D amp and class AB amps by Steve Guttenberg.

GATO DIA-400S Amp, 400 watts/8 ohms. 800 watts/4 ohms​

 

[Enkay78]

That may be tougher. Active speakers have been ruling the pro market for decades now but adoption in home hifi is still low. My theory is that audiophiles enjoy tweaking a bit too much, making actives less interesting.

Separately, is your "cables are snakeoil" comment based on your own experience or just dogma from ASR?

Not from ASR as such (but yes ASR has become a part of the debate).....many websites and research do point to such.

Personally I have not used any expensive cables....I only use good quality wires and pro-xlr connects. I use 12g wires.

Here is a comparison of a recent class D amp and class AB amps by Steve Guttenberg.

GATO DIA-400S Amp, 400 watts/8 ohms. 800 watts/4 ohms​

I have stopped giving merits to Steve's "reviews"

I will always add a pinch of salt.


PS: It will be very hard to imagine him do a purifi amp review. as it will not be "analog" enough for him.

 

[Enkay78]

SOTA amp list.

Price of Mac vs purifi module is a nice performance/price index

 

[raghupb]

Here is a review/impression by ZeroFidelity (Sean) of a Parasound Class-D power-amp.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[jai1611]

Not from ASR as such (but yes ASR has become a part of the debate).....many websites and research do point to such.

Personally I have not used any expensive cables....I only use good quality wires and pro-xlr connects. I use 12g wires.

Suggest you do your own experiments here to see if you notice a difference. Not talking about high end, jewellery type cables but between a couple of different pro cables.

SOTA amp list.

Price of Mac vs purifi module is a nice performance/price index

Any testing youve seen that properly simulates the complex impedance load of a loudspeaker? That was an issue for class D designs a few years back with the response shifting based on impedance. Would be interesting to see if its been solved. Ironically, this is the exact same problem that tube amps have but for completely different reasons.

 

[Hiten]

<snip>(280W class-D for LF, 100W class-AB for HF)<snip>

As said in my previous post ; there must be some reason why HF is 'Class AB'. probably several reasons. 1) Public perception 2) Marketing 3) Class D really affects HF 4) Budget limitation to have HiFi Class D for HF in the whole package.
Regards

 

[raghupb]

As said in my previous post ; there must be some reason why HF is 'Class AB'. probably several reasons. 1) Public perception 2) Marketing 3) Class D really affects HF 4) Budget limitation to have HiFi Class D for HF in the whole package.
Regards

Good points. My guess would be biased towards 3) & 4)
The evolution will happen

The myth about class-D sounding thin in vocals and HF is going away quickly.
There are products that address this using input stage and clever voicing is my guess.
In consumer audio, amps have to mate with a wide variety of speakers.
So the voicing becomes a tricky game.

Cheers,
Raghu