Class D is still not as good in 2024?

Today high end speakers like Avantgarde and Vandersteen are using class D amps for their powered bass. This was unthinkable a decade ago.

REL today uses class AB amp in their entry level subs and uses class D in their high end subs. I am sure there must be some reason for it.
Subs using class d is par for the course. It runs parallel to speaker discussion. I am just disheartened to see you guys liberally recommend class d. Someone is going to get stuck financially with a class d amp that doesn't satisfy nor sell.
 
Changed your opinion about all SMPS?
Opinion in any case cannot be for all items of the same class. For ex - In your case you prefer a new audiophile (with budget constraint ) to start with bookshelf speakers and Class AB amplifier. Does this imply that all Class AB amplifiers out there in the market are good? Cannot be. There are always amplifiers in any class which have good implementation and there will be amplifiers in any class in which implementation is not so good.
 
Opinion in any case cannot be for all items of the same class. For ex - In your case you prefer a new audiophile (with budget constraint ) to start with bookshelf speakers and Class AB amplifier. Does this imply that all Class AB amplifiers out there in the market are good? Cannot be. There are always amplifiers in any class which have good implementation and there will be amplifiers in any class in which implementation is not so good.
That's a strawman argument.

1. I did not say any class ab. I said "well matched" which I meant to imply that if it's highly revealing 5 lacs higher end bookshelf than a class ab matching it standards. If it's a 30k mission speakers than a suitably matched class ab.
2. Secondly, Finding a good class ab amp and an LPS in the market is the norm not the exception. And conversely finding a good class d/smps is the exception.

It's plain i am belabouring the point so that you don't use exceptions to make the case for class d. There are some apex predator brands selling commercial class D. Someone is going to buy say a 2 lacs class d and hurt badly
 
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That's a strawman argument.

1. I did not say any class ab. I said "well matched" which I meant to imply that if it's highly revealing 5 lacs higher end bookshelf than a class ab matching it standards. If it's a 30k mission speakers than a suitably matched class ab.
2. Secondly, Finding a good class ab amp in the market is the norm not the exception. And conversely finding a good class d/smps is the exception.

It's plain if you want to see why I am belabouring the point that don't use exceptions to make the case for class d. Someone is going to buy a 1/2 lacs class d and hurt badly
My understanding is that all these Class A, Class AB, Class D etc are just technologies. There are amplifiers with good implementations of each class in the market. You believe in superiority of Class AB amplifiers so you recommend amplifiers to anyone seeking advice from you based on your what you believe and there is nothing wrong in it.
But at the end of the day it is usual for any audiophile looking to make purchase of new amplifier to seek recommendation from more than one source and make purchase only after suitable audition.
You are recommending what you believe in and it is the duty of the audiophile making purchase to ensure that the recommended system is also good enough for him.
 
My understanding is that all these Class A, Class AB, Class D etc are just technologies. There are amplifiers with good implementations of each class in the market. You believe in superiority of Class AB amplifiers so you recommend amplifiers to anyone seeking advice from you based on your what you believe and there is nothing wrong in it.
But at the end of the day it is usual for any audiophile looking to make purchase of new amplifier to seek recommendation from more than one source and make purchase only after suitable audition.
You are recommending what you believe in and it is the duty of the audiophile making purchase to ensure that the recommended system is also good enough for him.
Its not just about the superiority- it's about the large safe tent under that umbrella with many exit, upgrade paths, a well worn path that we all have personally walked. With you on caveat emptor.
In the new Hindi lps thread also i was saying similar things. I don't want people to get stuck with bad stuff.
 
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Its not about the superiority- it's about the large safe tent under that umbrella with many exit, upgrade paths, a well worn path that we all have personally walked. With you on caveat emptor.
In the new Hindi lps thread also i was saying similar things. I don't want people to get stuck with bad stuff.
You recommend what you believe in and hence you are doing full justice to your role when someone seeks advice from you.
 
Wow, Class D amps. In my opinion in today's times with the costs of basic amps sky rocketing, an Aiyima or a Fossi amp is the Go To Amp for someone getting started with this Hobby. These amps are comparatively cheaper and have come a long way in terms of reliability and quality. To add to that, if one is inclined, can even upgrade the opamps to really tailor the sound signature to ones own taste. The cost would still be lesser than the cheapest class AB amp.

For a beginner, I am all for a Class D amp. For example, a Fossi ZA3 with upgraded opamps can keep one happy for a long time.

Did I miss mentioning, these amps are easy on the pocket in terms of energy consumption and generate negligible heat. Tuck them away out of sight and they will still perform.

MaSh
 
Excerpt from an article titled:

Today’s Disruptive Class-D Amps Are Changing the Audiophile Hobby Very Much For The Better​


“Will Traditionalist Audiophiles Fight Modern Change in the Amplifier Category?​

The audiophile hobby isn’t much about embracing the future over its two generations in existence. The print magazines that have shaped the hobby for 50 years and counting put a big premium on a high price, exotic technologies, and exclusivity. These new Class-D amps are better than that, thus they represent the type of Silicon Valley “disruptive” change in technology that points many traditionalists to vinyl and tubes over more modern, more efficient audiophile electronics options.

The next-generation audiophile is seeking performance and value, as every other enthusiast has in his or her journey over the years. The fastest way to get to an increasingly high-performance stereo system is to embrace, engage or at least understand what is possible with these types of new technologies. Do you have to own a Gallium Nitride, Pascal or Hypex chipped amp to be a new-school audiophile? Of course not, but you should know about them as they represent the types of technological advances that really can improve performance of real-world, high-end audiophile systems, while saving power and delivering excellent value. “


Thoughts?
 
I for one am very happy moving to a ClassDAudio power amp after going the whole solid state to tubes to class D. I just like the convenience of its form factor, how cool it runs and the sound signature which is clean no nonsense power. I now spend more time enjoying music and less time tweaking the system to get the perfect sound.
 
Excerpt from an article titled:

Today’s Disruptive Class-D Amps Are Changing the Audiophile Hobby Very Much For The Better​


“Will Traditionalist Audiophiles Fight Modern Change in the Amplifier Category?​

The audiophile hobby isn’t much about embracing the future over its two generations in existence. The print magazines that have shaped the hobby for 50 years and counting put a big premium on a high price, exotic technologies, and exclusivity. These new Class-D amps are better than that, thus they represent the type of Silicon Valley “disruptive” change in technology that points many traditionalists to vinyl and tubes over more modern, more efficient audiophile electronics options.

The next-generation audiophile is seeking performance and value, as every other enthusiast has in his or her journey over the years. The fastest way to get to an increasingly high-performance stereo system is to embrace, engage or at least understand what is possible with these types of new technologies. Do you have to own a Gallium Nitride, Pascal or Hypex chipped amp to be a new-school audiophile? Of course not, but you should know about them as they represent the types of technological advances that really can improve performance of real-world, high-end audiophile systems, while saving power and delivering excellent value. “


Thoughts?
It will remain an endless topis as the hobby is subjective and also that the audiophile community has many misplaced fixations that find no cure. Technically and also aurally Class D is progressive and very good. However, it is perfectly fine if one embraces A or AB for his subjective merit, but to argue on objective merit is misplaced.
 
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I for one am very happy moving to a ClassDAudio power amp after going the whole solid state to tubes to class D. I just like the convenience of its form factor, how cool it runs and the sound signature which is clean no nonsense power. I now spend more time enjoying music and less time tweaking the system to get the perfect sound.
I think if you like the sound signature in your set up in your room with music that you enjoy then you have reached a milestone that you can either settle down with…. For a while
But if you continue to engage with fellow audiophiles, audio fora, online reviews etc, your journey will continue 😊 endlessly
 
Currently I have the following chip based class d amps:
1. Sabaj A4
2. Sabaj A2
3. Sabaj A3
4. Sabaj A20A 2022V
I have this Hypex based unit:
vtv Hypex ncore 252mp
And I also have a couple of Class A/B amplifiers.
My listening subjective observations have been that the chip based units, while they sound competent are not able to engage me in the music - I am using all these for TV watching, computer audio, games etc. rather than pure music listening, however the vtv sounds excellent to me. It sounds good enough, that now I am contemplating class D amps in the $5-$6k range - specifically AGD tempo di gan or the atma-sphere units for my main system to drive Wilson Sabrinas.
So I am personally convinced that class D (depending upon the implementation) has very much evolved vis-a-vis the Class A/B units, and while I may not give up class A/B entirely, I am going to have both in my system (I already have both, albeit a very base model hypex model).
Cheers,
Sid
 
Currently I have the following chip based class d amps:
1. Sabaj A4
2. Sabaj A2
3. Sabaj A3
4. Sabaj A20A 2022V
I have this Hypex based unit:
vtv Hypex ncore 252mp
And I also have a couple of Class A/B amplifiers.
My listening subjective observations have been that the chip based units, while they sound competent are not able to engage me in the music - I am using all these for TV watching, computer audio, games etc. rather than pure music listening, however the vtv sounds excellent to me. It sounds good enough, that now I am contemplating class D amps in the $5-$6k range - specifically AGD tempo di gan or the atma-sphere units for my main system to drive Wilson Sabrinas.
So I am personally convinced that class D (depending upon the implementation) has very much evolved vis-a-vis the Class A/B units, and while I may not give up class A/B entirely, I am going to have both in my system (I already have both, albeit a very base model hypex model).
Cheers,
Sid
And I strongly believe that unless one experiences all these so called Class D advances personally in their systems, all else is hearsay. Hence I made the effort to accumulate all these amps., and experience them personally - so I am speaking from my personal experience - not from some spec. sheet or arm-chair comfort (which is quite common - claiming audiophile credentials), or some review or some expert speak. Yes it is subjective, but that's what matters to me - not some measurements by a so called expert. And I have been buying class D amps. for the last 15 years or so - starting with the early bel-canto amps., which I heard in a show 18 years ago and figured out their immense convenience and potential, in sound quality and portability, compared to the class A behemoths back then. And relating to some posts about loosing money on class d amps., yes that is quite common with early adopters. There is a case study in business schools about this, and I learnt this the practical way when I sold my early class d amps.
Cheers,
Sid
 
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And I strongly believe that unless one experiences all these so called Class D advances personally in their systems, all else is hearsay. Hence I made the effort to accumulate all these amps., and experience them personally - so I am speaking from my personal experience - not from some spec. sheet or arm-chair comfort (which is quite common - claiming audiophile credentials), or some review or some expert speak. Yes it is subjective, but that's what matters to me - not some measurements by a so called expert. And I have been buying class D amps. for the last 15 years or so - starting with the early bel-canto amps., which I heard in a show 18 years ago and figured out their immense convenience and potential, in sound quality and portability, compared to the class A behemoths back then. And relating to some posts about loosing money on class d amps., yes that is quite common with early adopters. There is a case study in business schools about this, and I learnt this the practical way when I sold my early class d amps.
Cheers,
Sid
I second this strongly. Please listen with an open mind to any of the brands that are really pushing the limits on this technology. You will be surprised what you hear. Avoiding confirmation bias in audio is very difficult but with some practice it is possible.
More than a decade ago, I listened to a top system running a pair of nuforce reference monoblock amps. Even back then, they impressed me a lot. The speakers were the one of the original iterations of the nautilus 800. Biggest models. Those speakers are known to be quite ruthless in the mids and highs if not fed the right amps and source.
 
I second this strongly. Please listen with an open mind to any of the brands that are really pushing the limits on this technology. You will be surprised what you hear. Avoiding confirmation bias in audio is very difficult but with some practice it is possible.
More than a decade ago, I listened to a top system running a pair of nuforce reference monoblock amps. Even back then, they impressed me a lot. The speakers were the one of the original iterations of the nautilus 800. Biggest models. Those speakers are known to be quite ruthless in the mids and highs if not fed the right amps and source.
I have had a few Nuprime units - which I believe is the IP of nu-force in a new company. The ST10 was simply superb, in a moment of weakness - hoping for something better, I sold it. Combined with a Ayon Skylla II, the sound was ethereal. I still pine for this synergy (am experimenting feverishly for this - Skylla had a burr brown chip set along with 6h30 tubes into the nu-prime ST10 - finding it hard to source this combination now). In fact along with the AGD, or Atma-sphere, Nuprime is still on my radar - they have released some newer units since, but the ST-10 is still available (One thing to be said for the US brands is that, they have solid customer service vs the Taiwan/Chinese brands - which are iffy).
Anyways my mind is always open - with-in my financial limits - I have moved beyond brand names, If I cannot listen to it in my system and in my room - then a review, recommendation, what-ever- is basically an opinion - and you know the saying - opinions are like a$$, h0le$ - every has one!
Cheers,
Sid
 
I had listened to the prototype version at the Bristol audio show 2022 or 23. The show circumstance with all the noise did not help at all to get a grasp of what is going on with this new direction by Harbeth. I would think the speaker will have similar tone as the passive models but may perform better in the time and phase domains due to the active crossover plus more transparency also due to the same. The pricing is outrageous.
 
For excellent sound that won't break the bank, the 5 Star Award Winning Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Bookshelf Speakers is the one to consider!
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