Lyrita Horn Speakers
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viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hello grubyhalo,
Currently the Horn Grande's are working happily in a 10.5 ft. by 16 ft. room, with 9.5 ft. high ceiling. Listening distance is 10 ft. The room does open up through a 6 ft. opening on the side to a larger room that's 10 ft. by 26 ft.
Viren
Currently the Horn Grande's are working happily in a 10.5 ft. by 16 ft. room, with 9.5 ft. high ceiling. Listening distance is 10 ft. The room does open up through a 6 ft. opening on the side to a larger room that's 10 ft. by 26 ft.
Viren
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grubyhalo
New Member
Ah, I see. Thank you for the info.
iaudio
Well-Known Member
Virenji,
How about placement in a small room? I mean how much space would be required between and around the speakers?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
How about placement in a small room? I mean how much space would be required between and around the speakers?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
Hi,
Staxxx,presently the system that is hooked up is
Source-- Thorens TD124/Syntec/Ortofon SL15/ Ortofon 2K-15 SUT,Lyrita phono stage and Rega Apollo.
Pre/Power amp--- Lyrita DHT pre and 2A3 Power amp.
Speakers-----Altec horn loaded speakers or Tannoy 15 inch Monitor Golds in open backed Lancaster cabinets.
It would be a pleasure to meet with you if possible. I will be travelling during the first week of Dec.
When will you be visiting Madras? Let me see if it is possible to reschedule my travel plans.
Regards
Rajiv
Staxxx,presently the system that is hooked up is
Source-- Thorens TD124/Syntec/Ortofon SL15/ Ortofon 2K-15 SUT,Lyrita phono stage and Rega Apollo.
Pre/Power amp--- Lyrita DHT pre and 2A3 Power amp.
Speakers-----Altec horn loaded speakers or Tannoy 15 inch Monitor Golds in open backed Lancaster cabinets.
It would be a pleasure to meet with you if possible. I will be travelling during the first week of Dec.
When will you be visiting Madras? Let me see if it is possible to reschedule my travel plans.
Regards
Rajiv
ukjeyaraj
Well-Known Member
Looks like a art in itself. Can someone listen and give a detailed review, if possible with some av clip
soulforged
Well-Known Member
Viren sir, it might be a good idea to post a few pics from different angles...side, rear etc....possible?
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
As far as listening to these horn speaker systems goes, I am learning and discovering things myself.
With the Grande, with its two horns (especially the midbass horn), you need some distance between you and the speakers. Atleast 10 feet or so. The Petite is more acceptable of closer listening distances. And, the mid/high horns, the LeCleach horns, do beam. They become directional at higher frequencies. You can listen to them facing straight out, but then your sweet spot is only in the centre. Move to one side a bit, and you start hearing that side speaker. Probably, the best way to listen to them is to toe them in, and cross axes in front of you. Then, the sweet spot broadens, and small movements don't change perspective. And, oh, do they sound sweet, and concise, and clear!
The Grande's are sounding fine in my listening room of 10.5 ft by 16 ft.. Though, I think they will open up more in a larger room. Placement in the room is not fussy at all - probably easier than regular dynamic speakers. The horns are directional, and with toe in seem to excite the room less.
Viren
With the Grande, with its two horns (especially the midbass horn), you need some distance between you and the speakers. Atleast 10 feet or so. The Petite is more acceptable of closer listening distances. And, the mid/high horns, the LeCleach horns, do beam. They become directional at higher frequencies. You can listen to them facing straight out, but then your sweet spot is only in the centre. Move to one side a bit, and you start hearing that side speaker. Probably, the best way to listen to them is to toe them in, and cross axes in front of you. Then, the sweet spot broadens, and small movements don't change perspective. And, oh, do they sound sweet, and concise, and clear!
The Grande's are sounding fine in my listening room of 10.5 ft by 16 ft.. Though, I think they will open up more in a larger room. Placement in the room is not fussy at all - probably easier than regular dynamic speakers. The horns are directional, and with toe in seem to excite the room less.
Viren
Any material applied to the horn should have high viscosity to prevent resonance of the panel when the sounds gets reinforced by the horn. The sound waves should be guided by the horn and should slip through them rather than adhere to the horn and vibrate. Any material that allows this property will be beneficial. Resonance damping at the horns are one of the major challenges faced and Avantgrade uses a polymer type material for their spherical horn to prevent these resonance and later finish it with some polymer type paint to their surface. I too am planning a horn speaker similar to the Avantgrade and currently under design stage, should take atleast 6 months to a year to complete my R&D.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Do you mean like a violin bow makes the string vibrate?
What is the influence of dust on speakers such as this?
Congrats Virenji for the excellent horn speakers designed by you. I was wondering why the low bass speaker is a sealed enclosure with a 12" or a 15" woofer. Why cant the low end be a TL instead where the low frequency lift can be provided by the line. You can design a horn mid-range from 350 Hz cut-off and allow the low-end to be supported by a TL. That way you won't loose efficiency nor would you require a 12" or 15" woofers to augment the low-end.
My two Rupees.
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The slip of the sound waves when they are guided by the horn is to reduce friction and possible harshness in their sound stage. If you recollect how the horn speakers at our railway stations sound you will get an idea about what i meant about vibration resonance. Any dust layer on the horn surface will affect the turbulence of the sound wave which will affect the laminar flow of waves to change in viscosity (more research is needed in this though).
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hello Hari Iyer,
Perhaps you should read about Jean-Michel Le Cleach's theory about the LeCleach profile for horns:
Jean Michel on LeCleac'h horns - diyAudio
Smoothness of the horn is necessary, of course, as well as a clean transition from the compression driver to the throat of the horn. Abrupt changes in profile generate distortions in the waveform. Also, smoothness is relative to the frequency of the wave. A 20 kHz frequency has a wavelength of 17 mm. I doubt if dust particles will have any effect on its transmission.
The reason for selecting large bass drivers is to have a large radiating area so that driver movement is small. The driver stays very much in its linear range, and does not undergo compression at high levels of sound. These drivers reproduce frequencies low enough, with normal loading, for music at home. Building a transmission line for these drivers would make for a huge enclosure.
Regards,
Viren
Perhaps you should read about Jean-Michel Le Cleach's theory about the LeCleach profile for horns:
Jean Michel on LeCleac'h horns - diyAudio
Smoothness of the horn is necessary, of course, as well as a clean transition from the compression driver to the throat of the horn. Abrupt changes in profile generate distortions in the waveform. Also, smoothness is relative to the frequency of the wave. A 20 kHz frequency has a wavelength of 17 mm. I doubt if dust particles will have any effect on its transmission.
The reason for selecting large bass drivers is to have a large radiating area so that driver movement is small. The driver stays very much in its linear range, and does not undergo compression at high levels of sound. These drivers reproduce frequencies low enough, with normal loading, for music at home. Building a transmission line for these drivers would make for a huge enclosure.
Regards,
Viren
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Hi Viren,
Would love to see and hear a you tube video clip of these speakers.
I guess like all other speakers they synergise best with your own tube amps. Have you tried any other amps on them?
Like the Avantgarde which are very unforgiving, if not mated with the right amp and source, but once you get that right it is difficult to move away from them, I would like to hear your feedback with different components on your horns.
thanks,
HMV
Would love to see and hear a you tube video clip of these speakers.
I guess like all other speakers they synergise best with your own tube amps. Have you tried any other amps on them?
Like the Avantgarde which are very unforgiving, if not mated with the right amp and source, but once you get that right it is difficult to move away from them, I would like to hear your feedback with different components on your horns.
thanks,
HMV
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viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hello HMV,
Like everything in audio, listening perspectives are very subjective. The main purpose of developing these speakers was to get to listen to the scale and dynamics of music with even low powered tube amplifiers. So, the two come together very well in reproducing music. And, the real challenge is to make good sounding systems with good components (not necessarily expensive!).
No reason why the speakers shouldn't work with other amps. Different flavours, and subjective preferences. But they have to be listened to in real rooms - a video will not do justice. How to communicate the sense of scale and authority?
The voicing of these horns is quite different from that of the Avantgarde's. A much more natural perspective to the sound. How to describe it - no, you just have to hear them to find out!
Regards,
Viren
Like everything in audio, listening perspectives are very subjective. The main purpose of developing these speakers was to get to listen to the scale and dynamics of music with even low powered tube amplifiers. So, the two come together very well in reproducing music. And, the real challenge is to make good sounding systems with good components (not necessarily expensive!).
No reason why the speakers shouldn't work with other amps. Different flavours, and subjective preferences. But they have to be listened to in real rooms - a video will not do justice. How to communicate the sense of scale and authority?
The voicing of these horns is quite different from that of the Avantgarde's. A much more natural perspective to the sound. How to describe it - no, you just have to hear them to find out!
Regards,
Viren
Hi Viren,
Thanks for your candid reply. As you mention it is so subjective and each one's preferences are so different. Wouldn't it be wonderful if everybody ate vanilla ice-cream, but then the hobby would get so boring.
The reason for the interest in your project, is your philosophy that it does not have to be expensive and in real world money, you get a heck of a lot of speaker for it! I like that philosophy a lot as this hobby is certainly a mug's game, where mine is bigger than yours takes over. More expensive does not always mean it is much better.
Hifi today is getting ridiculously priced and one wonders where it will end. But when people like yourself come out with products that have value (on reading other members reviews of your speaker) it brings a smile to my face for those entering the hobby have a good entry point.
I look forward to see the DIY version of Hari Iyer's Avantgarde design concept with great enthusiasm too.
Good Luck with your project and hopefully one day I will have the pleasure of hearing your speakers and appreciate the sweat and toil gone into them.
Cheers
HMV
Thanks for your candid reply. As you mention it is so subjective and each one's preferences are so different. Wouldn't it be wonderful if everybody ate vanilla ice-cream, but then the hobby would get so boring.
The reason for the interest in your project, is your philosophy that it does not have to be expensive and in real world money, you get a heck of a lot of speaker for it! I like that philosophy a lot as this hobby is certainly a mug's game, where mine is bigger than yours takes over. More expensive does not always mean it is much better.
Hifi today is getting ridiculously priced and one wonders where it will end. But when people like yourself come out with products that have value (on reading other members reviews of your speaker) it brings a smile to my face for those entering the hobby have a good entry point.
I look forward to see the DIY version of Hari Iyer's Avantgarde design concept with great enthusiasm too.
Good Luck with your project and hopefully one day I will have the pleasure of hearing your speakers and appreciate the sweat and toil gone into them.
Cheers
HMV
The challenge is to get the horn made from the profile here and vendors are not ready to build only a pair of horn for economy of scale. They want atleast 20 horns to be build from their CNC machines for them to be viable and i am stuck there. I am planning to have the horn crossed over at 250Hz and below 250Hz use a TL only for bass. The horn will use a compression driver that can be crossed from 300Hz onwards and will perform open till its highest frequency. So you do not have any cross-over at the critical mid / high band. The spherical horns for 250Hz are quite huge to be installed in a normal home unless you live in a manision. I am looking for this design to mostly installed in Churches and the likes here where a pair of horn speakers will be able to cater for the entire hall without any sweet spots. Again the lows will be agumented with a TL.
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