Depends upon budget. Can be BMS or Selinium.
Lyrita Horn Speakers
- Thread starter viren bakhshi
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Depends upon budget. Can be BMS or Selinium.
I agree! My TL has a 6 & 1/2" woofer and goes dowm real LOW..... Lower than most 15" drivers!
Hi Hari I,
Are you looking at any other options in material than the poly-plastics of what the Avantgardes are made out off? There are wonderful horns turned from wood, made in the US and I am sure that if you got a local guy skilled in cabinetry/joinery they could probably be able to copy it well.
having no x/over to the mids would be and ideal situation, depending on driver capability.
thanks for your input. i look forward to it on a different thread as this one belongs to Lyrita, and we have to give it to Viren for making such lovely speakers.
Shivam
Well-Known Member
I am planning to opt for Lyrita horn speakers now since my new room is an average room acoustically.
(I was using an unusual combination of NAD and Wharfedale in my earlier 'live' room.)
Grande look beautiful and I hope will sound equally nice too.
(I was using an unusual combination of NAD and Wharfedale in my earlier 'live' room.)
Grande look beautiful and I hope will sound equally nice too.
Hi
On a recent one day trip to Delhi I could barely manage an hour or so in the evening to have a look at the horn speakers at Viren's place which he was kind enough to show me at a very short notice.
The horns driven by DHT pre with GM70 power and marantz CD player as a source sounded very different from dynamic speakers .
It was a not even front seat but 'in the stage' kind of a presence, but the dynamics were not detail dependent but something else which I could not put my finger on.The sound was also more open as compared to dynamic speakers and had a sense of non-restraint.
The bass from the horn grande was also very tight and articulate as compared to the petite (the horn was playing its role there also).
It was too short a period for any serious listening but being my first exposure to horns was an enlightening experience.
The same evening I also had a chance to listen to Snell C7 speakers at my brother's place.The Snell sounded big, bold and delicate at the same time.
An evening really well spent in 2 different musical settings.
Cheers
On a recent one day trip to Delhi I could barely manage an hour or so in the evening to have a look at the horn speakers at Viren's place which he was kind enough to show me at a very short notice.
The horns driven by DHT pre with GM70 power and marantz CD player as a source sounded very different from dynamic speakers .
It was a not even front seat but 'in the stage' kind of a presence, but the dynamics were not detail dependent but something else which I could not put my finger on.The sound was also more open as compared to dynamic speakers and had a sense of non-restraint.
The bass from the horn grande was also very tight and articulate as compared to the petite (the horn was playing its role there also).
It was too short a period for any serious listening but being my first exposure to horns was an enlightening experience.
The same evening I also had a chance to listen to Snell C7 speakers at my brother's place.The Snell sounded big, bold and delicate at the same time.
An evening really well spent in 2 different musical settings.
Cheers
kapvin
Well-Known Member
Ah well, size is not everything. Pro-audio speakers have different design goals in mind, and tend to be as Mr. Bakshi says. Having said that, I think that a tl would pull the lower end perhaps a a third or half octave lower and that would be useful. The key would be the size.
edit:
Dear Mr. Bakshi, tried modelling the Beta; they just do not model well in a TL. tried the defimax, they are a lot better. which brings me to the question, why choose the Betas at all? is it only efficiency, given that the defimax is much much cleaner and plays deeper.
enclosed is the rough model of a TL for the defimax
line length=50"
taper 5:1
initial s0= 2.5 x SD
anechoic f3 around 40hz. should play down to 30hz effortlessly in a room
Rough back of the envelope design
lastly am really curious to know how you managed to get 50hz response from the betas? respect!
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viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hello Kapvin,
Sorry, I was away for a while, and couldn't respond earlier.
The driver parameters should govern the cabinet design for that driver. So, the Eminence Beta 12" won't perform well in a transmission line cabinet, but works fine in a conventional ported cabinet. That's the way it was used. With help from room reflecting surfaces, that configuration gives well defined response down to 40 Hz or so.
By the way, Martin King's design software for TL speakers is amongst the best available. Good to see you using it.
Regards,
Viren
Sorry, I was away for a while, and couldn't respond earlier.
The driver parameters should govern the cabinet design for that driver. So, the Eminence Beta 12" won't perform well in a transmission line cabinet, but works fine in a conventional ported cabinet. That's the way it was used. With help from room reflecting surfaces, that configuration gives well defined response down to 40 Hz or so.
By the way, Martin King's design software for TL speakers is amongst the best available. Good to see you using it.
Regards,
Viren
kapvin
Well-Known Member
Okay, so the response is with room gain, makes sense. i actually racked my brains on this for a bit, but I was not able to model it so low anechoic. I agree that betas do not model well in a TL, which is what I wrote in response to Hari.
I would really be thrilled to see you design something with a definimax, You might lose that last bit of sensitivity, but more than make up on extension and clarity. food for thought? I also hope to meet you the next time I visit Delhi.
I am barely scratching the surface with MJK's software. he also has stuff to model horns, software that I have access to but not used. have you tried his horn worksheets?
best wishes
Kapvin
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viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hi Kapvin,
Nothing to beat David J McBean's "Hornresp" for design of horns. It was the availability of this software, and some prodding from fellow member Rajiv, that got me going into designing horns. The Lyrita horns have been the result of extensive analysis using Hornresp.
Regards,
Viren
Nothing to beat David J McBean's "Hornresp" for design of horns. It was the availability of this software, and some prodding from fellow member Rajiv, that got me going into designing horns. The Lyrita horns have been the result of extensive analysis using Hornresp.
Regards,
Viren
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Hi arj,
Really looking forward to seeing you.
Really looking forward to seeing you.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Great. Arjun - expecting a nice write-up from you 
I got a chance to visit Mr Bakshi over the weekend. As usual, he was a gracious host and Im grateful for his hospitality.
I also got a chance to hear the Lyrita Horn Grande speakers. Ive penned down my listening impressions below and also compared to speakers that I own (Rethm Saadhana, Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE).
Summary: these are extremely versatile speakers. They can go from intimate to toweringly dynamic. Music as diverse as female vocals, jazz, rock, western classical and heavy metal was handled with equal aplomb and at an overall high level of performance. Im sure they will perform exceptionally for HT use as well. While not as good as the Rethms on vocals and soundstaging, the Lyritas were as good or better on practically all other aspects particularly in handling large scale dynamics
Setup: Marantz CDP -> Lyrita DHT preamp -> Lyrita GM70 monoblocks ->Lyrita Horn Grande speakers. My sense is that the speakers could perform even better with a superior source I dont think the Marantz is in the same league as these speakers.
Size and placement: the speakers are large around 5ft in height. They dont seem to need too much space behind them. The gap between the wall and the back of the speaker was under 1 foot. The speakers themselves are around 2 feet in depth so a total of 3ft of space from the wall to the front of the speaker. We tried both toed in and firing straight. There are differences in soundstage and tonality. My sense is what works better will depend on the room.
Extension / bass/treble: the speakers seem well extended at both ends of the spectrum. No rolling off of the highs or weak bass here. To me, these are proper, full range speakers. On the bass in particular, there is a lot of impact you can feel it, not just hear it. Neither the Dynaudios nor the Rethms can match them in extension and bass impact.
Tonality: the tonality of the speakers is pretty neutral, despite being powered with a pair of GM70 tube amps no extra lushness to the midrange or looseness in the bass. They dont have the bit of extra midrange magic that the Saadhanas have which makes them so magical with Rethms have. Tonally, they are closer to the Dynaudios but without the extra tonal overlay (colouration?) that the Dynes have
Dynamics: these are the first speakers that Ive heard that seem to capture the massive dynamic swings of western classical music at something approaching concert levels. To me, this is the single biggest USP of these speakers a completely unrestrained character of the sound which comes from being able to reproduce whatever dynamics the music demands.
Transparency: better than the Dynaudios on this front but a bit short of the Rethms. Overall, not so transparent that you need to ditch a big portion of your music collection but transparent enough to make you really appreciate good recordings.
Soundstage: the speakers do throw up a large soundstage. However, they dont have the holographic quality and you are there feeling that the Rethms give.
Overall, if I had to keep just one speaker for all sorts of music and occasionally movie use, these would outperform both the Rethms and the Dynaudios. For the more vocal centric and softer music that I mostly listen to, the Rethms are a better bet. However, with the Rethms Ive always felt the need for a second pair of speakers to listen to hard rock/metal, which wouldnt be there with these.
I also got a chance to hear the Lyrita Horn Grande speakers. Ive penned down my listening impressions below and also compared to speakers that I own (Rethm Saadhana, Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE).
Summary: these are extremely versatile speakers. They can go from intimate to toweringly dynamic. Music as diverse as female vocals, jazz, rock, western classical and heavy metal was handled with equal aplomb and at an overall high level of performance. Im sure they will perform exceptionally for HT use as well. While not as good as the Rethms on vocals and soundstaging, the Lyritas were as good or better on practically all other aspects particularly in handling large scale dynamics
Setup: Marantz CDP -> Lyrita DHT preamp -> Lyrita GM70 monoblocks ->Lyrita Horn Grande speakers. My sense is that the speakers could perform even better with a superior source I dont think the Marantz is in the same league as these speakers.
Size and placement: the speakers are large around 5ft in height. They dont seem to need too much space behind them. The gap between the wall and the back of the speaker was under 1 foot. The speakers themselves are around 2 feet in depth so a total of 3ft of space from the wall to the front of the speaker. We tried both toed in and firing straight. There are differences in soundstage and tonality. My sense is what works better will depend on the room.
Extension / bass/treble: the speakers seem well extended at both ends of the spectrum. No rolling off of the highs or weak bass here. To me, these are proper, full range speakers. On the bass in particular, there is a lot of impact you can feel it, not just hear it. Neither the Dynaudios nor the Rethms can match them in extension and bass impact.
Tonality: the tonality of the speakers is pretty neutral, despite being powered with a pair of GM70 tube amps no extra lushness to the midrange or looseness in the bass. They dont have the bit of extra midrange magic that the Saadhanas have which makes them so magical with Rethms have. Tonally, they are closer to the Dynaudios but without the extra tonal overlay (colouration?) that the Dynes have
Dynamics: these are the first speakers that Ive heard that seem to capture the massive dynamic swings of western classical music at something approaching concert levels. To me, this is the single biggest USP of these speakers a completely unrestrained character of the sound which comes from being able to reproduce whatever dynamics the music demands.
Transparency: better than the Dynaudios on this front but a bit short of the Rethms. Overall, not so transparent that you need to ditch a big portion of your music collection but transparent enough to make you really appreciate good recordings.
Soundstage: the speakers do throw up a large soundstage. However, they dont have the holographic quality and you are there feeling that the Rethms give.
Overall, if I had to keep just one speaker for all sorts of music and occasionally movie use, these would outperform both the Rethms and the Dynaudios. For the more vocal centric and softer music that I mostly listen to, the Rethms are a better bet. However, with the Rethms Ive always felt the need for a second pair of speakers to listen to hard rock/metal, which wouldnt be there with these.
viren bakhshi
Well-Known Member
Well, the horns continue to grow!
Have been listening to the bigger 450 Hz (versus the smaller 600 Hz) wood LeCleach horn on the refurbished Altec 288 compression driver. In size, the larger horn's mouth is 16" across compared to 12.5" for the smaller one. The Altec driver courtesy of forum member Rajiv.
As they say, there's no going back! The larger driver and horn give a greater sense of flow to music. The tonal structure of music is enriched, and seems more real. Dynamics are enhanced. The music just becomes easier to listen into, as if a shaded layer has been removed.
I would say the horns have moved to a richer musical experience!
Regards,
Viren
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