McCormack gone.. what next ?

[raj]

I tend to agree with square. Amps that are designed primarily for HT and related applications (such as 5 channel audio) will not necessarily perform well in 2 channel applications especially if one has revealing speakers. That being said parasound jc1 are in an entirely different league IMO. It is quite popular in budget equipment forums to compare nicely priced equipment to equipment 4-5 times their price and claim that they sound similar - maybe for movie tracks - which have foley effects, artificial induced sounds etc - but almost never for 2 channel music. Just my humble opinion.
Cheers
Sid

I agree with this. Though actual users of the equipment have said Emotiva sounds as good as other more expensive ones, the data given is not complete (like what type of music, what is the complete setup, in some cases which model of the amp they were comparing). And Emotiva lounge is hardly an unbiased place to go and get the information. Emotiva seems to be where Oppo was probably 6-7 years ago - a lot of rave reviews from the customers without much validation from independent reviewers - not that they don't have pressures/biases but they publish the full set of data. Oppo's credibility shot up when the reviewers gave them a big thumps up. That is what Emotiva needs and hopefully they would get it.
I also would like to know who has compared it to JC1 and have found emotiva
to be on par with that. I am not saying that emotiva is not that good or not excellent VFM. Based on the opinions here, I am tempted to give it a try on my next upgrade.

 

[subhash]

Hi Subash,

This is good news. Can you point me to the review please ? What kind of systems are these comparisons done ? Associated equipment ?

JC1 's are typically used by hardcore two channel audiophiles in extremely well setup systems.

I am assuming the discussion here is for a strict two channel application.

Thank you,
Square.

hi square wave
heres a review not by a professional ,just an audiofile

The Emotiva Lounge - My XPA-1's Review

 

[subhash]

I tend to agree with square. Amps that are designed primarily for HT and related applications (such as 5 channel audio) will not necessarily perform well in 2 channel applications especially if one has revealing speakers. That being said parasound jc1 are in an entirely different league IMO. It is quite popular in budget equipment forums to compare nicely priced equipment to equipment 4-5 times their price and claim that they sound similar - maybe for movie tracks - which have foley effects, artificial induced sounds etc - but almost never for 2 channel music. Just my humble opinion.
Cheers
Sid

the XPA-1's are single MONO blocks
the XPA-2 is a 2 channel amp
xpa-3 is 3channel and so on

the beauty of these amps are u can configure to your tastes/needs and have the best of both

 

[subhash]

I agree with this. Though actual users of the equipment have said Emotiva sounds as good as other more expensive ones, the data given is not complete (like what type of music, what is the complete setup, in some cases which model of the amp they were comparing). And Emotiva lounge is hardly an unbiased place to go and get the information. Emotiva seems to be where Oppo was probably 6-7 years ago - a lot of rave reviews from the customers without much validation from independent reviewers - not that they don't have pressures/biases but they publish the full set of data. Oppo's credibility shot up when the reviewers gave them a big thumps up. That is what Emotiva needs and hopefully they would get it.
I also would like to know who has compared it to JC1 and have found emotiva
to be on par with that. I am not saying that emotiva is not that good or not excellent VFM. Based on the opinions here, I am tempted to give it a try on my next upgrade.

have posted a link u cud chk it out , may be biased or unbiased but then you cant have most of the reviews there in favour of these amps .

for me a pair of the XPA-1's is working out very well
i have never xperienced such huge and heavy monoblocks and that too at a great affordable price

 

[square_wave]

hi square wave
heres a review not by a professional ,just an audiofile

The Emotiva Lounge - My XPA-1's Review

Hi Subash,

I read through the review.

To be honest, this is the kind of audiophile I would not give any credibility to. He is the collector ! He is not even extracting 50 percent of what that system is capable off! The way he has setup his system is a sure recipe for disaster !

For heavens sake, see the position of the loudspeakers ! They are smack against the wall ( 6 inches gap). And one speaker is shoved into a corner ! I can only imagine the anomalies in the frequency response in the reproduced sound. And look at the massive equipment cabinet in the middle to show off his gadgets ! It will create havoc with the imaging. Audiophiles usually keep very low racks (less than 22 inches to keep it below mids/tweeter level). The smaller the better.

No imaging! Bad frequency response! What parameters are he looking for when he is evaluating gear ?

All this shows the kind of listener he is !

This Sunday I spend a few hours in Dr.Basss home trying some new placements for his ATCs. He had changed his older placement. When I reached his home, the sound was a disaster ! I was shocked. We had to essentially measure distances to an error margin of a few centimetres to dial the speakers in. And then play around to get the best possible soundstage and bass. Once dialled in the sound was magic ! When you arrive at this point, you are in a position to evaluate gear, otherwise not !

I would take anything this guy says with a large bag of salt.

 

[subhash]

another link comparing the XPA-1 to even bigger giants again not a professional review

Emotiva XPA-1 MONOURAL POWER AMPLIFIERS Reviews

and here are professional reviews of the XPA-1 and 2 and also other emotiva products with awards

Emotiva Audio :: Reviews

i suppose these reviews shud be good enough

 

[subhash]

Hi Subash,

I read through the review.

To be honest, this is the kind of audiophile I would not give any credibility to. He is the collector ! He is not even extracting 50 percent of what that system is capable off! The way he has setup his system is a sure recipe for disaster !

For heavens sake, see the position of the loudspeakers ! They are smack against the wall ( 6 inches gap). And one speaker is shoved into a corner ! I can only imagine the anomalies in the frequency response in the reproduced sound. And look at the massive equipment cabinet in the middle to show off his gadgets ! It will create havoc with the imaging. Audiophiles usually keep very low racks (less than 22 inches to keep it below mids/tweeter level). The smaller the better.

No imaging! Bad frequency response! What parameters are he looking for when he is evaluating gear ?

All this shows the kind of listener he is !

This Sunday I spend a few hours in Dr.Basss home trying some new placements for his ATCs. He had changed his older placement. When I reached his home, the sound was a disaster ! I was shocked. We had to essentially measure distances to an error margin of a few centimetres to dial the speakers in. And then play around to get the best possible soundstage and bass. Once dialled in the sound was magic ! When you arrive at this point, you are in a position to evaluate gear, otherwise not !

I would take anything this guy says with a large bag of salt.

you asked ,i posted links , comparision was there with the JC-1

ok ,if an user reviews u point out the mistakes in his set up, thats fine
but then when a professional reviews you cud say its biased


well in the first review ,the collector did have the Odyseey stratos too ,he cud have heard and compared both with the same position of his spkrs and setup...

do give a feed back on the professional review too which i have posted

may be take it with a larger bag of salt

but u cant have the the same opinion to most of the good reviews regardless of spkr position and set up ,cud you????????

 

[Spidey]

I dont want to take sides.

But sometimes , especially in case of a relatively "new" brand, it takes time ( and hard sponsoring money !) to get your brand on "recognised" sites,magzines and reviewers. We all know what is the publicity and advertising budget of the already "established" brands that sell at a unholy permium ( and we end up paying for it).
So sometimes, a brand is carried by the people by sheer mouth to mouth or forum to forum publicity based on its merit and not advertisement.

So we should keep an open mind for such brands when considering established brands.

thanks

 

[square_wave]

you asked ,i posted links , comparision was there with the JC-1

ok ,if an user reviews u point out the mistakes in his set up, thats fine
but then when a professional reviews you cud say its biased


well in the first review ,the collector did have the Odyseey stratos too ,he cud have heard and compared both with the same position of his spkrs and setup...

do give a feed back on the professional review too which i have posted

may be take it with a larger bag of salt

but u cant have the the same opinion to most of the good reviews regardless of spkr position and set up ,cud you????????

The point is that this kind of audiophile is not qualified to evaluate gear. He does not know what to look for.

With his current setup, he cannot evaluate the essential differences between a JC1 monoblock and an emotiva or a stratos extreme !
The difference between decent and great amplifiers go beyond clear and nice sound. It is all about resolving details and harmonics and stark neutral sound which communicates the essence of music. Unless he sets it up well and proves that he is a capable listener, I would not give any credibility to what he says.

I will give you small example. If you are evaluating the amps capabilities to re create the piano in this setup, the fundamental in the lowest keys will over load the room making it bloated, the placement of the note in space will be completely hazy due to lack of imaging with the massive cabinet in between and the way the speakers are placed. How on earth will you know which amp recreated it better ?

Ideal setup and capable listener are two requisites for a credible review.

Hi-end sound is also about using the right kind of cables with your setup. It takes a lot of pain and experimenting to know what a gear is capable of. You cannot just buy gear off audiogon and plonk it where your older amp or cd player or speaker existed and connect them all with Belden cables and make judgements !

I am reiterating the fact that I am not saying the emotive is not a good amp. It may be a good amplifier but I will not believe anything this dude says

 

[subhash]

The point is that this kind of audiophile is not qualified to evaluate gear. He does not know what to look for.

With his current setup, he cannot evaluate the essential differences between a JC1 monoblock and an emotiva or a stratos extreme !
The difference between decent and great amplifiers go beyond clear and nice sound. It is all about resolving details and harmonics and stark neutral sound which communicates the essence of music. Unless he sets it up well and proves that he is a capable listener, I would not give any credibility to what he says.

I will give you small example. If you are evaluating the amps capabilities to re create the piano in this setup, the fundamental in the lowest keys will over load the room making it bloated, the placement of the note in space will be completely hazy due to lack of imaging with the massive cabinet in between and the way the speakers are placed. How on earth will you know which amp recreated it better ?

Ideal setup and capable listener are two requisites for a credible review.

I am reiterating the fact that I am not saying the emotive is not a good amp. It may be a good amplifier but I will not believe anything this dude says

hi ,
no need to stick on to one review , you cud comment on the professional review too

if needed will post more user review links

rgrds

 

[Dr.Bass]

This Sunday I spend a few hours in Dr.Basss home trying some new placements for his ATCs. He had changed his older placement. When I reached his home, the sound was a disaster ! I was shocked. We had to essentially measure distances to an error margin of a few centimetres to dial the speakers in. And then play around to get the best possible soundstage and bass. Once dialled in the sound was magic ! When you arrive at this point, you are in a position to evaluate gear, otherwise not !

That was one fabulous visit square. Thanks a lot for all the effort

 

[subhash]

The point is that this kind of audiophile is not qualified to evaluate gear. He does not know what to look for.

With his current setup, he cannot evaluate the essential differences between a JC1 monoblock and an emotiva or a stratos extreme !
The difference between decent and great amplifiers go beyond clear and nice sound. It is all about resolving details and harmonics and stark neutral sound which communicates the essence of music. Unless he sets it up well and proves that he is a capable listener, I would not give any credibility to what he says.

I will give you small example. If you are evaluating the amps capabilities to re create the piano in this setup, the fundamental in the lowest keys will over load the room making it bloated, the placement of the note in space will be completely hazy due to lack of imaging with the massive cabinet in between and the way the speakers are placed. How on earth will you know which amp recreated it better ?

Ideal setup and capable listener are two requisites for a credible review.

Hi-end sound is also about using the right kind of cables with your setup. It takes a lot of pain and experimenting to know what a gear is capable of. You cannot just buy gear off audiogon and plonk it where your older amp or cd player or speaker existed and connect them all with Belden cables and make judgements !

I am reiterating the fact that I am not saying the emotive is not a good amp. It may be a good amplifier but I will not believe anything this dude says

hi square wave ,raj

well ,just found this ,a direct link to a professional review,
do read the conclusion ,again its the parasound JC-1 that shows up , any comments

Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Power Amplifier

 

[subhash]

The point is that this kind of audiophile is not qualified to evaluate gear. He does not know what to look for.

With his current setup, he cannot evaluate the essential differences between a JC1 monoblock and an emotiva or a stratos extreme !
The difference between decent and great amplifiers go beyond clear and nice sound. It is all about resolving details and harmonics and stark neutral sound which communicates the essence of music. Unless he sets it up well and proves that he is a capable listener, I would not give any credibility to what he says.

I will give you small example. If you are evaluating the amps capabilities to re create the piano in this setup, the fundamental in the lowest keys will over load the room making it bloated, the placement of the note in space will be completely hazy due to lack of imaging with the massive cabinet in between and the way the speakers are placed. How on earth will you know which amp recreated it better ?

Ideal setup and capable listener are two requisites for a credible review.

Hi-end sound is also about using the right kind of cables with your setup. It takes a lot of pain and experimenting to know what a gear is capable of. You cannot just buy gear off audiogon and plonk it where your older amp or cd player or speaker existed and connect them all with Belden cables and make judgements !

I am reiterating the fact that I am not saying the emotive is not a good amp. It may be a good amplifier but I will not believe anything this dude says

above comment for a set up which includes these !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DALLI HELLICON 800MK1 SPKRS
PARASOUND HALO PRE
ACOUSTIC ZEN CABLES
MARANTZ 8003 SACDP
And offcourse the XPA-1 monoblocks

 

[square_wave]

above comment for a set up which includes these !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DALLI HELLICON 800MK1 SPKRS
PARASOUND HALO PRE
ACOUSTIC ZEN CABLES
MARANTZ 8003 SACDP
And offcourse the XPA-1 monoblocks

The point is not the equipment. It is the listener and setup !

If the setup is not right, the listener is bad.

There are thousands of such collector audiophiles around the world. They make awesome friends and a great people to hang out with.
They change gear at the drop of a hat and will have some vague opinions about their past gear. Most of these gentlemen, will not even change their cables or experiment with positioning. In their entire lifetime as an audiophile they will not know the capabilities of any gear they have owned. When you start tweaking your equipment with correct setup and cabling, an entire new world opens up.

To me, he has not even started ! For opinions about gear, I would look elsewhere !

He says his krells where bright and forward ! How does he know ?
Are his speakers proven to synergistic with a krell amp ?
Has he tried positioning the speakers better ? Room treatment ?
Different cables ?
Essentially he knows nothing ! Apart from names of well known gear.

The emotiva may be a great amplifier but for a two channel fanatic to give credibility to the amp, it needs to get accepted by the finicky two channel crowd and consistently get rave reviews by that crowd. Or we need to see this amp setup right in a hi-end music system and get to compare it with the kind of amplifiers being talked about here.

 

[Dr.Bass]

above comment for a set up which includes these !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DALLI HELLICON 800MK1 SPKRS
PARASOUND HALO PRE
ACOUSTIC ZEN CABLES
MARANTZ 8003 SACDP
And offcourse the XPA-1 monoblocks

Subhash, you missed the point. I have said this elsewhere and would repeat, the higher the level of gears the more it would take to make it sound good, simply because these gears will exactly expose all the carelessness taken in speaker positioning, rack positioning etc....Every little anomaly will be exposed and magnified. That is why it becomes very difficult to judge gears in this kind of setup. You are actually choosing between two wrongs. If that criteria works for you while concluding from a review, what can I say, it is the third wrong in the process.

 

[anilva]

Folks,

I too own a Emotiva. But a XPA-5 (5 channel). I use this for HT as well as for Stereo. I am extremely happy with the sound, build quality and reserves of power this amp has. Apart from that Emotiva to my mind offers best VFM today. One can probably buy lot more esoteric stuff with money, but I believe it would be a case of diminishing returns beyond a point.

The reason Emotiva offers such great prices and also probably has low visibility is, it eliminates the entire value chain of dealers, distributors, opinion makers etc., who need to be suitably rewarded. With the HiFi world used to paying lots of money for anything 'high end', this offering from Emotiva looks out of place. It is a matter of time before they become popular.

My two cents.

 

[GeorgeO]

In the end, to each his own..

 

[square_wave]

Subhash, you missed the point. I have said this elsewhere and would repeat, the higher the level of gears the more it would take to make it sound good, simply because these gears will exactly expose all the carelessness taken in speaker positioning, rack positioning etc....Every little anomaly will be exposed and magnified. That is why it becomes very difficult to judge gears in this kind of setup. You are actually choosing between two wrongs. If that criteria works for you while concluding from a review, what can I say, it is the third wrong in the process.

You couldnt have said it better !

 

[square_wave]

In the end, to each his own..

I completely agree with this statement.

If the list of gear owned by that gentleman is given to a hard-core two channel audiophile, all the conclusions drawn will be different !

 

[Dr.Bass]

If the list of gear owned by that gentleman is given to a hard-core two channel audiophile, all the conclusions drawn will be different !

May be different.