McCormack gone.. what next ?

[santhosh]

In the end, to each his own..

Absollutely George, whatever floats one's boat.

If the list of gear owned by that gentleman is given to a hard-core two channel audiophile, all the conclusions drawn will be different !

I have been reading your posts on this thread, and IMO you seem to have a problem with products whose great sound signature/specs don't match their low price tag.

IMO, you also seem to be making conclusions of someone based on one photograph and one review. Why is honest review being dismissed as that of a collector or just another showoff? Why is it blasphemy if an audiophile also indulges in multi-channel stuff? From his choice of equipment, I think that poster here clearly knows his Parasounds, Odyesseys and Dalis from the Boses and B&Os(Bang and Olufsen) of the luxury world.

About your judging someone on speaker placement, how do we know he has not tried speaker placement before finally dialing in the current placement. What if any other placement sounded bad in his room?

May be different.

Spot on Dr.Bass!!. In the absence of any explicit information about a reviewer's capabilities or, we should give the benefit of doubt to the person. Also, one should not underestimate the reviewer just because he is also into multichannel audio.

There are other reviews as well that Subhash has posted and they seem to be professional enough to consider. This just reinforces my belief that the reviewer in question is knowledgable, knows what to listen for.

Again Square_Wave, nothing personal against you mate. Just voicing my thoughts.

 

[saikat]

May be different.

+1 to that!

What would be nice is, if someone has some comparable amps (upto say 3-4x price of the Emo) to have a shootout with!

Afterall looks like the Emo's are the underdogs here. Subhash?

 

[square_wave]

Absollutely George, whatever floats one's boat.


I have been reading your posts on this thread, and IMO you seem to have a problem with products whose great sound signature/specs don't match their low price tag.

IMO, you also seem to be making conclusions of someone based on one photograph and one review. Why is honest review being dismissed as that of a collector or just another showoff? Why is it blasphemy if an audiophile also indulges in multi-channel stuff? From his choice of equipment, I think that poster here clearly knows his Parasounds, Odyesseys and Dalis from the Boses and B&Os(Bang and Olufsen) of the luxury world.

About your judging someone on speaker placement, how do we know he has not tried speaker placement before finally dialing in the current placement. What if any other placement sounded bad in his room?


Spot on Dr.Bass!!. In the absence of any explicit information about a reviewer's capabilities or, we should give the benefit of doubt to the person. Also, one should not underestimate the reviewer just because he is also into multichannel audio.

There are other reviews as well that Subhash has posted and they seem to be professional enough to consider. This just reinforces my belief that the reviewer in question is knowledgable, knows what to listen for.

Again Square_Wave, nothing personal against you mate. Just voicing my thoughts.

You got me wrong there mate.

In all the posts I mentioned that the Emotiva may be a great amp. The key word is may !

My only problem is with reviewers like the one in the discussed review ! I stay far away from such folks when it comes to opinions on gear. Your mileage may vary.

And I always support niche direct to customer brands. Almost all gear in my setup is from such brands.

One more issue is folks advocating gear which are made popular on home theatre centric forums for two channel. It is only my opinion. I have some educated reasons for my opinions. Again your mileage may vary.

Spec is like the magicians trick ! One hand will show you what you want to see while the other will do things behind your back. You will not know what is happening unless you know the trick.

There is no free meal in this world !

 

[subhash]

hi square wave ,raj

well ,just found this ,a direct link to a professional review,
do read the conclusion ,again its the parasound JC-1 that shows up , any comments

Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Power Amplifier

square wave how come no comments on this review, u cud give it a shot

 

[square_wave]

square wave how come no comments on this review, u cud give it a shot

It is again a review on a home theatre forum

Here the reviewer is talking about the 130,000 ?F of power supply capacitance, machined faceplates, enclosure crammed with components etc

About the sound he goes on to say that the amp delivers on all fronts like dynamic contrasts, transients, retrieval of detail from recordings, noise floor, spatial cues, Bass agility and clarity etc.. Nothing on how the amp communicates music !

He goes on to say the XP-1 reminded me of high dollar solid-state amps from the likes of Krell, Mark Levinson and Jeff Rowland..

All this goes on to say what ?

That it is a surprisingly good amplifier for the price. I am in complete agreement with the reviewer here. It is indeed a surprisingly good amplifier for the money!

The discussion we had earlier was not about this Subash. It was about the following.

1.Comparison and evaluation of the XPA-1 against well regarded amplifier designs which cost substantially more by competent independent reviewers of two channel components.
2.Acceptance of the XPA-1 by the finicky two channel audiophile community. There are many stellar examples.

For me, the above two criteria are extremely important along with personal comparisons to come to a conclusion about how the amp stacks up against other worthy competitors.

 

[pdhanwada]

square_wave,

Point well taken. I agree what all you say about the reviewers. It is not possible to find a special two channel reviewer against a home theater reviewer. As the Emotiva's are not sold in a store, we need to go by somebody's word.

Again a reviewer when he says something, One person takes it other person rejects it. It all depends on what you take and how you take.

Thanks
Pandu

 

[Spidey]

Friends,

Another good amp for sale on eBay.com :

ADCOM GFA-5500 STEREO POWER AMPLIFIER
200 watts per channel, 8 ohms
350watts per channel, 4 ohms

Mosfet output circuitry
Cost = 58k (plus customs duty)

How good is this ?

 

[subhash]

It is again a review on a home theatre forum

Here the reviewer is talking about the 130,000 ?F of power supply capacitance, machined faceplates, enclosure crammed with components etc

About the sound he goes on to say that the amp delivers on all fronts like dynamic contrasts, transients, retrieval of detail from recordings, noise floor, spatial cues, Bass agility and clarity etc.. Nothing on how the amp communicates music !

He goes on to say the XP-1 reminded me of high dollar solid-state amps from the likes of Krell, Mark Levinson and Jeff Rowland..

All this goes on to say what ?

That it is a surprisingly good amplifier for the price. I am in complete agreement with the reviewer here. It is indeed a surprisingly good amplifier for the money!

The discussion we had earlier was not about this Subash. It was about the following.

1.Comparison and evaluation of the XPA-1 against well regarded amplifier designs which cost substantially more by competent independent reviewers of two channel components.
2.Acceptance of the XPA-1 by the finicky two channel audiophile community. There are many stellar examples.

For me, the above two criteria are extremely important along with personal comparisons to come to a conclusion about how the amp stacks up against other worthy competitors.

do you think the Krell, mark levinson,jeff rowland amps were used for HT???

Ok Emotiva may not be better ,but they are just as good as others ,its not unreasonable to show a manufacturer that can provide an equal product at a better price

Why spend more than you have to for a good amp like Emotiva ,seems silly that people are so stuck on the idea of name brands and willing to shell out 3-4 times more for the same thing only bcoz it has a name brand/badge.

4-5 times more doesnt mean 5 times better performance

Emotiva brings something to customers that is not made available by big name brands, affordable high quality amps.
people no longer need to be rich or snoobs to own seperates all in all thanks to EMOTIVA
So i will tell anyone looking for a great amp for LITTLE MONEY to head over to EMOTIVA
Emotiva is a direct result of changes taking place in the AV world, They cud have marketed like all the big boys but chose to keep cost down,
WOULD YOU RAISE A DOUBT /QUESTION IF THE MONO BLOCKS COSTED 3000USD or more EACH????
People can hate or disregard the emotiva products for being absolutely fair,but may be its just EMO ENVY ,since most have spent so much more for so much less! lol

 

[raj]

hi square wave ,raj

well ,just found this ,a direct link to a professional review,
do read the conclusion ,again its the parasound JC-1 that shows up , any comments

Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Power Amplifier

I browsed through the review (don't have time to go through the details now), but the conclusion says that you need to spend 3x money to get equal or better sound. And mentions in the passing JC1. But no details about comparison to JC1. So, it doesn't answer my question about comparison to JC1. However, the reason everyone keeps talking about JC1 supports the point someone else made about credentials: John Curl has the credentials and the track record. So, if someone wants a new equipment to be considered on par with his or other proven designers' designs, then it is only logical to expect some explanation on how they come to that conclusion. Otherwise, the review and the reviewer does not have the credibility .
IMO, Emotiva is behind Oppo on credentials as of now. It does not mean that Emotiva products are not that good.
Personally for me what matters is how it drives a particular I own/want to own to help my buying decision.

 

[subhash]

Friends,

Another good amp for sale on eBay.com :

ADCOM GFA-5500 STEREO POWER AMPLIFIER
200 watts per channel, 8 ohms
350watts per channel, 4 ohms

Mosfet output circuitry
Cost = 58k (plus customs duty)

How good is this ?

i think santhosh has this amp

 

[square_wave]

do you think the Krell, mark levinson,jeff rowland amps were used for HT???

Ok Emotiva may not be better ,but they are just as good as others ,its not unreasonable to show a manufacturer that can provide an equal product at a better price

Why spend more than you have to for a good amp like Emotiva ,seems silly that people are so stuck on the idea of name brands and willing to shell out 3-4 times more for the same thing only bcoz it has a name brand/badge.

4-5 times more doesnt mean 5 times better performance

Emotiva brings something to customers that is not made available by big name brands, affordable high quality amps.
people no longer need to be rich or snoobs to own seperates all in all thanks to EMOTIVA
So i will tell anyone looking for a great amp for LITTLE MONEY to head over to EMOTIVA
Emotiva is a direct result of changes taking place in the AV world, They cud have marketed like all the big boys but chose to keep cost down,
WOULD YOU RAISE A DOUBT /QUESTION IF THE MONO BLOCKS COSTED 3000USD or more EACH????
People can hate or disregard the emotiva products for being absolutely fair,but may be its just EMO ENVY ,since most have spent so much more for so much less! lol

No arguments with you Subash. After all this is all about music !

I wanted to tell you one thing though.

There is much more to amplification than emotiva. Head over the diyaudio and you can see some awesome designs being pushed to their limits by folks who are masters in their art. The cost price of the components being used in some such designs cost twice the retail of amps like emotiva. There is whole world out there in amplifier design.

If you think the emotiva is as good as a pass labs, symphonic line, dartzeel or gamut so be it. Be happy !

 

[subhash]

Appreciate Square waves abbility to hear sound from a pic ,wish all of us had this gift

i definetly do not have the great xperience of Square wave in stereo set ups ,but wud request him to post pic of his set up and hear it sing as per his claims :lol: so that it cud benefit a lot of us

square wave has dismissed the likes of Dalli hellicons / marantz 8003 / acoustin Zen /parasound Halo pre ,etc etc just becoz he calims the placement not to his liking these are gears which most of us wudnt be able to afford in the near future

If still in doubt ,as v are from bengaluru we cud get a little practical , why dont you carry amps of your choice head over to my place spend some time and do a direct shoot out ,i mean with the amps ( not possible for me to carry the 40KG each monoblocks )
this shud clear all our minds how good or bad the emotiva amps are comparitevely to amps of your choice----that shud put an end to all discussion and help other members too , i guess u still have the Odyssey stratos ,i do have the Vincent SP331-MK ,any body wants to chip in with amps are welcome

 

[subhash]

No arguments with you Subash. After all this is all about music !

I wanted to tell you one thing though.

There is much more to amplification than emotiva. Head over the diyaudio and you can see some awesome designs being pushed to their limits by folks who are masters in their art. The cost price of the components being used in some such designs cost twice the retail of amps like emotiva. There is whole world out there in amplifier design.

If you think the emotiva is as good as a pass labs, symphonic line, dartzeel or gamut so be it. Be happy !

you are digging out the names of amps i havnt mentioned , definetly its all about music

i am extremly happy with the mono blocks

head over with all amps u have, as i mentioned in earlier post lets shoot it out and put these amps to test and end it with music , what do you say we cud welcome other members from blr too -this cud really be exciting!!!!
if commuting is a problem i wll provide pick N drop for you
rgrds

 

[square_wave]

@subash,

Remember what the discussion was all about. It was about emotiva against amps costing 5 times more.

Identify such an amp. Maybe the JC1 monoblocks and get it to your home, set it up correctly with with loudspeakers designed to create music (not HT). Make sure all synergistic factors like cabling is taken care of and call me. I can definitely come.

Please note that this is not an easy job ! It takes a lot of pain to dial-in positioning and finding the right kind of cables which works with specific gear.

I am glad that you are happy with the monoblocks. They are currently one of the most VFM amps out there.

 

[audiodelic]

we would appreciate a a/b comparison between the odyssey stratos and emotiva's. so if u bangalare guys can do it we would be grateful.

 

[subhash]

@subash,

Remember what the discussion was all about. It was about emotiva against amps costing 5 times more.

Identify such an amp. Maybe the JC1 monoblocks and get it to your home, set it up correctly with with loudspeakers designed to create music (not HT). Make sure all synergistic factors like cabling is taken care of and call me. I can definitely come.

Please note that this is not an easy job ! It takes a lot of pain to dial-in positioning and finding the right kind of cables which works with specific gear.

I am glad that you are happy with the monoblocks. They are currently one of the most VFM amps out there.

man ,why shud i identify ???its you who got into theoritical aspects and placements and went on and on as if you were some kind of gods gift to audiofiles and mentioned some great amps as if u owned them all i said was the EMOTIVA XPA-1 were great value for money and some people did speak abt the JC-1 in thier comparisons and these EMO's came close to performance and if needed to be bettered /equalled u need to spend 4-5 times

if i cud afford the JC-1 's i still wudnt buy it as i wud have used the extra cash for some worthwhile upgrade or investment or bought a third car --thanks to EMOTIVA

square wave i still invite you with the amps you have ,i will also chip in with my older vincent SP331MK

lets be fair and do the shoot out ---same room ,same spkrs ,same audio tracks , same cables ,only change amps
let me know

rgrds

 

[audiodelic]

Its the law of diminishing returns ..... emotiva is vfm sounds better than amps costing twice or thrice. Maybe a 5 to 10 times more expensive amplifier will have about 20% better performance. To some that 20% could be everything to others like me the cost factor would be way more appealing.

so be happy you own a true differential design monoblock subhash.

 

[subhash]

Its the law of diminishing returns ..... emotiva is vfm sounds better than amps costing twice or thrice. Maybe a 5 to 10 times more expensive amplifier will have about 20% better performance. To some that 20% could be everything to others like me the cost factor would be way more appealing.

so be happy you own a true differential design monoblock subhash.

thanks and very well said,
the law holds good for me too

 

[square_wave]

man ,why shud i identify ???its you who got into theoritical aspects and placements and went on and on as if you were some kind of gods gift to audiofiles and mentioned some great amps as if u owned them all i said was the EMOTIVA XPA-1 were great value for money and some people did speak abt the JC-1 in thier comparisons and these EMO's came close to performance and if needed to be bettered /equalled u need to spend 4-5 times

if i cud afford the JC-1 's i still wudnt buy it as i wud have used the extra cash for some worthwhile upgrade or investment or bought a third car --thanks to EMOTIVA

square wave i still invite you with the amps you have ,i will also chip in with my older vincent SP331MK

lets be fair and do the shoot out ---same room ,same spkrs ,same audio tracks , same cables ,only change amps
let me know

rgrds

Hi subash,

You still have not got the point.

I do not think we are getting anywhere here. You are talking Greek and I am talking Serbian

I am sure you are a great guy and have a great home theatre. I too love movies. We shouldnt be discussing audio. Movies, yes ! And over a beer !

Have a good day !

 

[malvai]

guys guys, both of you appropriated the right points, but seem to be approaching the 'argument' from two different tunnels...

But, on the whole iaudio is correct on all aspects.

Fui'm sure the emotiva is a great amp.

But, do i personally believe that it can give amps like the Krell or ML or Jeff Rowland a run for its money?

NO. Absolutely not.

What it does do however, is give you SQ way higher than its price point.

And I respect it for THAT.

Also, there is a great merit in what squarewave is saying.... How can a person who hasn't even extracted the true potential of his equipment be trusted for his opinion?

I personally have seem some people blow away systems 5 times the price by simply doing some amazing component matching, placement, room tweaks....

which clearly the said has not even attempted....