Modern 15inch drivers vs Altecs & Tannoys

[Thad E Ginathom]

Viren, I appreciate your passion, but not so much your "facts."

I think you'll find that there were an awful lot of "buttons" on vintage analogue mixing desks.

I think that you will find that those who record classical and acoustic music have as much passion and interest in it as those who were doing it fifty years ago, and at least as much skill.

The changing scenes of popular music are just that. Electronic music is electronic music, right from the start through to the published product. The same rules apply.

Classical music has always been a minority interest: if you say that speaker designers design with what their customers are mostly going to listen to, then you might have a point, but this is not the same as claiming that they are ignorant about music.

EDIT... This got truncated by a power cut, and the power cut was for several hours, so I have now entirely lost from my hear whatever else I was going to say!


~

 

[manoj.p]

Its the overtones of violin those extend in high frequencies. If those don't matter, then its fine. Its a choice.

As for vintage driver, I sure want to listen to one. Hope I come across a properly set vintage system.

 

[kanwar]

Virenji,

Let me paraphrase that : "Speakers using vintage drivers like Tannoys' and Altecs' were designed in the era where designers knew what music sounded like."

So modern day designers and music makers all over the world must be clowns as per your statement

So, I don't want you to get the wrong impression that vintage gear is to blame for not reproducing music fully. I grow tired of hearing that vintage gear is rolled off, is soft, is warm. It definitely is not - it just sounds more like music! The problem is with us - we have to get our ears recalibrated. Listen to live music - then judge for yourselves.
Regards,
Viren

Vintage gear is best suited for a specific types of music only, you cannot expect the Tannoy or Altecs to play Trance, Dubstep & Reggae with a level of dynamism with which the modern drivers can do the justice, the vintage drivers are not even close to them. Already did comparisons.

Roll-off at frequency extremes does play a vital role with some kind of music genres. If someone has ears which doesn't let him/her hear above 10khz, its not the fault of the music or driver, its the listener who is limited. As people grow old, the ear + brain ability to hear above 10khz starts rolling off......

If you prefer music which is rolled-off as your personal preference, you cannot present that thing as a reference to others.

 

[denom]

I recently heard Tannoy Monitor Gold 12" & came away learning a whole lot more about the vintage tannoy speakers.

I heard new gen music & yes concur with kanwar's post wrt the old driver's inability to handle certain genre's of music.

Will start a thread soon on my experiences.

 

[jls001]

As for vintage driver, I sure want to listen to one. Hope I come across a properly set vintage system.

You must. You will likely come away feeling differently than you do now.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

My previous post got truncated by a power cut, which was so long that the rest got lost from my head.

You will likely come away feeling differently than you do now

As per my posts here, my visits and experience of two vintage setups belonging to dedicated HFVers here in Chennai were both wonderful. Leaving aside the agreed effort and skill needed to put together such a system, and assuming availability off the shelf, which it is not, that still doesn't mean that it would be my personal cost-no-consideration choice. Not even sure what that would be, as cost always has, and always will be, a major consideration !

It's all a matter of choice.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Little OT,

Last week I heard the PSB T2 tower speakers and compared to the PSB Stratus Silver model it was not better. I would still prefer the SQ of the Stratus Silver models to the current PSB T2. The Stratus silver model were from the early 90's and The T2 the current generation.

 

[Hiten]

The below post may flame some war, but I just want to point out something.

The vintage drivers like Tannoy and Altec's were designed in the era where the push was on to systems that sounded warm. The whole analog stage was designed with rolled off highs. The tube and class A amps again had the rolled off high frequencies. So, if one is used to that and prefers that sound, the vintage drivers will work very fine and give lots of enjoyment. However, for someone not aware of this, it can come as a shock to listen to a design which is not so great at doing high frequencies and may sound unclear.

Having said that, I do not have a first hand experience with vintage altecs or tannoys. But I did read lots of user impressions of those when I was looking for studio monitors. The main contenders for me were JBL 43xx and JBL 44xx series. Both were highly regarded. The 43xx series was designed to sound more like vintage monitors of JBL and Altec, with the mid-bass hump. Although this made the 43xx series bit in-accurate, it was still very popular. This prompted me to read more about the vintage altecs. Then I came across a post of big fan of Altec 604 when he listened the JBL 4410 series speakers. It's an interesting read.
JBL 4410 vs Altec 604

As said above, I dont have a first hand experience with Altecs. But just wanted to bring another viewpoint. If one knows what to expect, there won't be any heartburn or disappointment.

I doubt if all vintage drivers had rolled off highs. Some later version of 604s had response right upto 20khz. I think in high effeciency vintage driver surrounds plays important role in SQ and should be in perfect original shape.
Regards

 

[Hari Iyer]

Last week i heard the Goodmans 12" Alnico magnet FR speakers and i too found that the highs were sufficient enough and would not need a Tweeter at all. Ie would rather say the mids were well integrated with the highs to give a overall good mid-range presence and extension without the associated fatigue.

 

[viren bakhshi]

Ah, yes, there are no absolutes.

My earlier comments were said with tongue-in-cheek, but pertinent to people who have not even heard certain systems but make didactic comments on them.

It seems sarcasm is lost on people nowadays!

 

[manoj.p]

Ah, yes, there are no absolutes.

My earlier comments were said with tongue-in-cheek, but pertinent to people who have not even heard certain systems but make didactic comments on them.

Sir,

if you are referring to me, you can quote me or my name. I have no problems with it. Yes, I haven't heard the vintage drivers but I did mention that outright. I also did not made any contention about the quality of those drivers like tone, timbre, dynamics etc at all. All I made the comments was about a known fact and another users view about it. Many of us review the components before auditioning itself, more so if the systems are not easy to audition. It is sort of an absolute to say "don't comment unless you heard it". One does not have to be a cricket player to say a particular player is doing a mistake or not playing rightly. Then what's next? "You didn't hear with the right gear" or "you don't have golden ears". We have heard all these comments before to negate someone's opinions.

It seems sarcasm is lost on people nowadays!

Well, looks like we all missed the sarcasm. May be I should see your posts little differently.

Edit: My last sentence was sarcasm. Since its lost on people nowadays, I thought of clarify it.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It seems sarcasm is lost on people nowadays!

You obviously put the sarcasm bit in a very high voice. It was lost due to limited frequency range --- which just proves how important those high frequencies are! hyeah:

 

[Hari Iyer]

Extended highs and lows are not desired at the cost of overall linearity of the sound stage. I will always prefer a balanced limited response over an extended non-linear response.

 

[kanwar]

Extended highs and lows are not desired at the cost of overall linearity of the sound stage. I will always prefer a balanced limited response over an extended non-linear response.

Hari


How are you so sure that the extended response is always NON-LINEAR?

Same can be said for Limited response also......It can also be NON-LINEAR.

I prefer Extended response with a degree of high linearity and natural tonal balance........is anything bad in this........

 

[Hari Iyer]

@ Kanwar,

If i am getting a linear extended response then i really dont mind and would actually enjoy it. What i am trying to say is - I prefer a limited response that is linear than to an extended response which is not balanced and linear. You might have heard many compact stereo systems of the 90's from Sony and Aiwa, had lots of lows and highs but was extremely non-linear. I am referring to them.

 

[kanwar]

@ Kanwar,

If i am getting a linear extended response then i really dont mind and would actually enjoy it. What i am trying to say is - I prefer a limited response that is linear than to an extended response which is not balanced and linear. You might have heard many compact stereo systems of the 90's from Sony and Aiwa, had lots of lows and highs but was extremely non-linear. I am referring to them.

Thanxz for clarifying Hari,

Then better don't generalize on every extended response system, add the word 'specific cases' which sound bad when it comes to Sonics.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

He did say "if it comes at the cost of..."

And that's how I read it. I think he's covered

 

[reubensm]

wonder if this is real

 

[manoj.p]

He did say "if it comes at the cost of..."

And that's how I read it. I think he's covered

Thad: To be fair, there is no "if" in Hari's original post. If one is reading that post, it does give the impression that extended response means non-linear output.

@Hari: Not finger pointing, but stating the thing as it looks by reading. When we are online, its sometimes hard to communicate context if words not chosen carefully.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thad: To be fair, there is no "if" in Hari's original post.

OK... If I stand corrected, then so be it. I stand corrected. I should have checked before posting --- or just kept quiet.

wonder if this is real

Hmmm, Do you think that two guys could pick up even the magnet of that thing? Then how about the basket: even if it were made of relatively thin pressed steel, it would be quite heavy, but wouldn't it have been cast?