My New TT : The Cello from Scheu Analog

[Asit]

Hi folks,

Here is a small update on my TT. I have not made much progress with the phono pre, still searching. However, I have now two important accessories: a dustcover for the TT and the centre weight, both made by Ali (magma) and shipped to me.

The original centre weight from Scheu weighs about 680 gms. It's made of Aluminium and then anodized. I was able to find some of the specifications of the weight from the net. Then knowing the density of Aluminium, and calibrating the pictures from the net by the known dimensions (like the bottom and top diameters and the height, available for example from coolgales.com), I had to work a bit hard one afternoon, to come up with the exact specifications which were then given to Ali. Ali has done a great job with the fabrication of the weight.

We decided to make one small change from the Scheu design for the weight. The Scheu weight has a small spirit level on top of the weight at the centre. Since I already have a very precise spirit level from Stanley, I did not want another spirit level on my weight, and instructed Ali accordingly. Because of this, I had to make small changes to the design so that the weight does not increase. Ultimately in its final form the weight is between 680 and 685 gms. The coolgales.com states it at 700 gms, although another source says it is 680 gms. Anyway, we are doing quite okay in this respect.

I had a talk with Arj about the weight during the designing phase, and he told me that the weight might not always work for better. I thought about this long and hard. The Cello sonics seem to get better noticeably with the use of the weight, according to some of the actual users and reviewers. The original Scheu weight is quite expensive at more than Rs 6000, and would take time to get here anyway. That's when I decided to give it a try, but wanted to reproduce the original Scheu weight with exact specifications.

Let me give you my first impressions with the weight after a brief listen. I will later produce a more faithful report after extended listening and comparisons. With the weight the sonics has become more focussed with a better signal to noise ratio, resulting in a better dynamic range in a subtle but significant way. All the different instruments have got better identity, with the quiet phases becoming really quiet. In addition, the vocals have become more pronounced, which is immensely to my liking.

I must also tell you that before using the weight, I was really worried and a bit scared. The weight of 680 gms is not a very small amount, and with the bit of loose string I have around the platter (because Scheu apparently insists that the string should just be tight enough to make the platter rotate), I did not know if the platter would rotate at all, and if it does, whether it will rotate at the correct speed. But, everything went on extremely smoothly. I did not even need any speed adjustment, the speed locked perfectly. Incredible!

Hopefully tomorrow I will put up some pictures of the weight (in action) and the dustcover. Ali (magma) deserves a big 'Thank you' from me. BTW, he has told me not to recommend the dustcover to anybody, because he had a lot of trouble shipping the dustcover to me. He actually had to make a wooden crate for the dustcover for safe shipping.

Regards.

 

[magma]

Hey Asit
thank you for the kind words

the following statement is the exact feedback i recieved from another client
when i read it it was deja vu

"more focussed with a better signal to noise ratio"

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Let me give you my first impressions with the weight after a brief listen. I will later produce a more faithful report after extended listening and comparisons. With the weight the sonics has become more focussed with a better signal to noise ratio, resulting in a better dynamic range in a subtle but significant way. All the different instruments have got better identity, with the quiet phases becoming really quiet. In addition, the vocals have become more pronounced, which is immensely to my liking.
.

Asit,

Congrats for getting two very important accessories. Need photographs of them.

I also noticed the same impact of the centre weight at TLR Bangalore. Hope, you will prefer to use it.

We are eagerly waiting for your conclusion on phonostage.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Superb !!!
Asit, were you into Vinyls before ? Like in your younger days ?

BTW, do you have any chance of listening to a Nighthawk phonostage ?

 

[Bluu]

Asit sir, please post some pics if possible. Ali always delivers excellent craftsmanship. I strongly recommend his work.

Also, all the best in your search for the phono pre.

 

[Asit]

Ali, Amit, Dr. Bass and Bluu,
Thank you all for encouraging remarks. Yes, I'll post a few pictures soon.

Ali,
Nice to know that my initial views on the weight matches exactly that of another client of yours.

Amit,
Yes you told me that. But I was still not sure, especially after Arj told me that sometimes with the weight the sound may have less extensions where it is desirable. A bit of extension is good for all melodies. Of course too much would muddy the sound. I guess it also depends a bit on the design of the TT, especially the plinth (whether or not it is suspended or fixed) and what sort of material it is placed on. I do not think anybody knows for sure, it's a bit of a trial and error for everybody (including the designers at times). But what I have understood, any unwanted mechanical vibration is bad for all audio, especially the sources, and among them especially the TTs.

All said and done, I am also not ruling out the situation where the weight may work out for some vinyl records, and may not work out for other records. I will update you on this, whenever I have a new finding.

Dr. Bass,
I have written about some of this before. Well, it does not harm anything if I tell my story once more.

I have had a TT around almost always in my life. In my childhood, we had a HMV record player, a Hitachi spool recorder/player and transistor (yes, transistor) radio at home. That radio attracted a lot of attention from all the visitors because nobody had a transistor radio then. One of my elder brothers (all of them much older than me) got it from the US in 1962/63. I cannot remember the brand name, it was tiny (brick-size), but unassumingly heavy with a full metal body.

In the US, as a graduate student in 1985/86, I got myself a full Technics component system (on a clearance sale) which included a TT, cassette player, tuner, amp, and two large bookshelf speakers. The quality was nothing to write home about, because by then I had already heard a few premium systems.

Then in Germany, in 88/89, I got a very decent system including a decent TT (Dual CS5000, costing about DM 800 at that time). That TT is still there with me, I am in search for a motor for it.

However, I have never been a true vinyl person. A TT has been always there with me, but never used the medium very much. Also never had a large collection of vinyls either. This was partly because I usually have very little time for any household work, forget about playing with a TT. But I knew what the vinyl medium could do, because staying abroad for 14 years at a stretch I had the opportunity to listen to numerous gorgeous audio set-ups including a few fabulous TTs.

Pratim was kind enough to bring his Ray Samuels Nighthawk once to my place. It was when my cart was not fully broken in, I think. I'd like to hear my TT with it once again. Actually, I have also written about my experience with the Nighthawk in this thread, and in one other thread briefly. Let me give a gist: sure there was an overall improvement (very expected because at the moment I use only a budget phono), the presentation became smoother, with instruments having a bit more sparkle, bass became very tuneful. However, IMO, the sonics became a bit too smooth (unreal?) for me, I generally like a more faithful sound, not an over-engineered smooth and sweet sound like the Harbeth Compact 7's produce (never heard the SHL5's). I have heard a lot of live music (yes, a lot of it also unamplified), and real music is not always very smooth. From the performer's point of view, expression of music is actually an emotional exchange, with the nature, with the audience, and with oneself.

Regards.

 

[prem]

Hi Asit

I agree the centre wt is a bit of a hit and miss. Newer tables seem to respond to centre wts better than older designs. With oder designs trying to get extension ruins the magic. My EMT, for example, operates between 40Hz and 15000 Hz only beyond which there is a roll off. Newer tables have much better specs. Hence centre wts probably work.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Thanks Asit for the recap .
Yes, I have read all your threads and I recollect your comments regarding the nighthawk.
The Blackcube is actually closer to what you like imo.

 

[square_wave]

Hey Asit,

TLR stocks the trigon phono stage. Did you manage to check it out ?

 

[Bluu]

Hey Asit,

TLR stocks the trigon phono stage. Did you manage to check it out ?

Ooh, you may have hit a nerve.

 

[Asit]

Hi square_wave,

The Trigon phono was sent to me for a free trial, but the shipment got held up by a ST officer for quite some time. On its release, it was sent directly back to Bangalore, without me having an opportunity to audition it in my system. Really unfortunate, that's all I can say.

Regards.

 

[Asit]

Hi folks,

Here are a few pictures of my TT with the center weight, and the dustcover, and also the downstream components like my amp and one of the speakers:

Regards.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Asit,
Very neat finish, really.

Ali had told me that he is going to provide two handles on top of the dust cover for convenience in lifting. But I could not see any handle in the photo. Have you opted against it?

One more querry - Did you notice any sound improvement in using the marble slab below your amp?

 

[Asit]

Amit,

The hand-holds are there on the two sides. Look carefully at the pictures. Actually both of them show the holds (made of Aluminium, I think, screwed on to the sides of the cover).

Oh, forgot to answer the 2nd part: The marble slab definitely made a difference. There was a detailed discussion on this near the end of my long amp thread. Please read it. The magic Hexa feet are also excellent. I can still try different combinations of placement, for example, placing those magic hexas under the marble slab, or getting rid of the slab altogether. I have not tried all these. But for the moment the sonics are quite okay. Once in a while, when I am in the mood, I may try some those things.

Regards.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Amit,

The hand-holds are there on the two sides. Look carefully at the pictures. Actually both of them show the holds (made of Aluminium, I think, screwed on to the sides of the cover).

Oh, forgot to answer the 2nd part: The marble slab definitely made a difference. There was a detailed discussion on this near the end of my long amp thread. Please read it. The magic Hexa feet are also excellent. I can still try different combinations of placement, for example, placing those magic hexas under the marble slab, or getting rid of the slab altogether. I have not tried all these. But for the moment the sonics are quite okay. Once in a while, when I am in the mood, I may try some those things.

Regards.

Oh.. sorry, I have overlooked the hand-holds.

Regarding the marble slab, I will go through your amp thread.

Regards

 

[Asit]

Hi Asit

I agree the centre wt is a bit of a hit and miss. Newer tables seem to respond to centre wts better than older designs. With oder designs trying to get extension ruins the magic. My EMT, for example, operates between 40Hz and 15000 Hz only beyond which there is a roll off. Newer tables have much better specs. Hence centre wts probably work.

Prem,

You have brought in an interesting point: the vintage TTs and the record weights. You are right, I think. Not too many old TTs are used with an weight, is that correct?

Regards

 

[anm]

Asit is this the same old canton speaker? great that it's out of the cabinet. Looking good and I hope sounds better. TT is looking sexy

 

[Asit]

Anant,
These are the same Canton speakers which are now 22 years old. These have survived 2 intercontinental journeys and have lived in 3 different continents. These are also about 2 years older than my son who has grown up listening to music coming from these big speakers from his babyhood.

These speakers found a lot of different seats over the years. I had stands of varying quality in the past. You may know that good stands and racks cost a fortune, especially in the West. Of course, I never spent a lot on the stands or racks. The current stands, as you may know have been built by Sangram and the design is well discussed in my amp thread. These are superlative stands, made with a lot of care, planning and understanding of the speakers and are acoustically completely dead.

The cabinet arrangement was a relatively short-lived one when we moved to our current apartment. In the cabinet also, the speakers sounded reasonably good (and with good imaging and soundstage), strange as it may sound (hats off to its construction, especially the baffle design and the felt-like material on it to reduce diffraction). But undoubtedly, these speakers have sounded at their best on these stands, very clean, open and exceptional across the frequency range (the 10" woofers have come to life on these stands with air around them).

Since, I am showing off the creations of Ali (the weight and the dustcover), I thought it would be terribly unfair to Sangram if his stands were not shown, especially under the difficult working conditions he had to work on these.

These are extremely rare speakers to find on the net. Only a few of them were built (handmade), I guess. A couple of years ago, a person (audiokarma member) bought similar Canton speakers (not exactly the same as mine, but more than 20 years old) for USD 900.

I have no idea about the current line of Canton speakers, I have not heard them. I hope their reference line is something similar.

Regards.

 

[murali_n]

Hi asit,

Good set-up. BTW is it Ortofon OM10 that you are using? How does it perform?

Thanks in advance.

N.Murali

 

[ssf]

I had stands of varying quality in the past. You may know that good stands and racks cost a fortune, especially in the West. Of course, I never spent a lot on the stands or racks. The current stands, as you may know have been built by Sangram and the design is well discussed in my amp thread. These are superlative stands, made with a lot of care, planning and understanding of the speakers and are acoustically completely dead.

Beautiful speaker stands too. The TLC showered on your equipment is once again beautifully captured.

Searching for your amp thread.

Found it.