My New TT : The Cello from Scheu Analog

[Thad E Ginathom]

Obviously, I do not feel very good about the ones which are not well preserved. Usually I remove them after a short while, and try them later after a second round of thorough cleaning. If they are still unsatisfactory, I do not think they will ever be played again.

In my pre-CD days (and long before having any sort of computer in the house) I used to record albums that I simply had to listen to, but which were not in good condition, onto cassette. This not only reduced stylus/cartridge wear and tear, but the considerably lower dynamic range of [cassette] tape, compared to vinyl, also made the scratches slightly more bearable.

In this digitised aged, I had forgotten that until now!

 

[G401fan]

If you have a clean stylus, with the correct VTA and VTF and azimuth, and you keep your LPs clean, they should last a good long time without any distortion, or pops and clicks. A lot does depend on the composition and the formulation of the vinyl, its weight and the quality of the original stamping. I have records from the 50s that play perfectly, even though they've been played dozens of times. At the same time, you might damage a brand new LP on its very first play if your stylus is not perfectly vertical as seen from the front (not taking the 20 degree rake angle into account). Or if you have poor vinyl like most of the stuff from Polydor, India. On the other hand, I have an Indian copy of Abbey Road that I've played more than a 100 times that still sounds like new.

 

[Asit]

Ajay,
I agree 100% with G401fan. With a properly set-up TT, and clean records and stylus, the records can last a life-time. As I said earlier, I have a very modest collection of records. My oldest ones are still quite playable, just that a few of them needs proper cleaning. On a different subject, I still have audio cassette tapes of 1981-82 playing well. It all depends on quality source material, proper maintenance and storage.

Thad,
I did record a few vinyl and even CDs into audio cassettes. One needs to carefully set the bias while recording. I have always had a decent 3-head cassette deck with bias adjustments. The quality is okay. But for some reason, I did not do it for a lot of them.

G401fan,
Thanks for a very nice input.

Regards.

 

[Asit]

Hi folks,
Amit from Noida came over last Sunday in the afternoon. He listened to a few other systems as well in this trip of his.

After lunch, we started the music on my system around 2:30 PM and continued uninterrupted till about 8:30 PM or so. This was a long session, and my guess is that it was enjoyable for Amit.

The 6-hour session was divided into 3 parts. The first was CDs, the shorter second part was audio cassettes, and then the final part devoted completely to vinyl. I started with CDs because I am finding CDs uninvolving after a session of vinyl, so vinyls had to come last. The short audio cassette session was just to remind ourselves that if music is carefully recorded into high quality audio cassettes, and then played on a high quality deck with proper settings of bias, music can sound almost as good as in any other medium. I played on my Nakamichi RX-505 deck for Amit a cassette that was recorded using dolby B in the early nineties using my Sony WMD6 professional recorder.

The choice of music was basically all kinds: Indian classical, Western classical, Hindi movie songs, Bengali modern songs, Tagore songs, Western pop, Western semi-classical or neo-classical, international country songs, instrumental, vocal, solo, orchestra/band - all sorts.

After a long time, I had such a long session, thanks to Amit for coming over.

In the middle of all this, my TT reached nearly 20 hours. Today, in presence of Amit, I adjusted the speed just a tiny bit (very very little), and both of us felt that it improved the natural tonality of some vocals. Amit seemed to have enjoyed all media despite the presence of my budget-brand CDP CA740c and very very budget CA640p phono-stage.

Regards.

 

[Hiten]

Sorry for late posting.

Asitda regarding post #144 I was thinking on the line of....
With little more compliance we can increase stylus pressure without worrying about negligible record wear and would help stylus tip in keeping in touch with crests and troughs of vinyl groove as much as possible. So sound quality will be more accurate.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Hi folks,
Amit from Noida came over last Sunday in the afternoon. He listened to a few other systems as well in this trip of his.

After lunch, we started the music on my system around 2:30 PM and continued uninterrupted till about 8:30 PM or so. This was a long session, and my guess is that it was enjoyable for Amit.

The 6-hour session was divided into 3 parts. The first was CDs, the shorter second part was audio cassettes, and then the final part devoted completely to vinyl. I started with CDs because I am finding CDs uninvolving after a session of vinyl, so vinyls had to come last. The short audio cassette session was just to remind ourselves that if music is carefully recorded into high quality audio cassettes, and then played on a high quality deck with proper settings of bias, music can sound almost as good as in any other medium. I played on my Nakamichi RX-505 deck for Amit a cassette that was recorded using dolby B in the early nineties using my Sony WMD6 professional recorder.

The choice of music was basically all kinds: Indian classical, Western classical, Hindi movie songs, Bengali modern songs, Tagore songs, Western pop, Western semi-classical or neo-classical, international country songs, instrumental, vocal, solo, orchestra/band - all sorts.

After a long time, I had such a long session, thanks to Amit for coming over.

In the middle of all this, my TT reached nearly 20 hours. Today, in presence of Amit, I adjusted the speed just a tiny bit (very very little), and both of us felt that it improved the natural tonality of some vocals. Amit seemed to have enjoyed all media despite the presence of my budget-brand CDP CA740c and very very budget CA640p phono-stage.

Regards.

Although we had talked number of occassions over telephone, it was my first meet with Asit. And what a memorable meet it turned out. We have had long six hours non stop listening session. My purpose of this trip to Bangalore-Kolkata was to make an idea about vinyl sound and know various dos/don'ts and accessories etc. about TT. After my PC and CDP based set-up, I thought to have some idea about Vinyl, which I may venture in future. So, I took opportunity and planned my tour to Bangalore-Kolkata.

Asit knew my purpose of visit and very rightly started with CD then Casette and lastly played vinyl. The difference of sound became very clear.

Before start of the session, Asit and his wife offered me a very tasty lunch with variety of fishes including Hilsa. Being a bengali it was a very pleasant treat to my taste buds.

The Scheu cello looks attratcive with transparent base and frosted acrylic platter. The stylus was Rega RB251 with Ortofon Super OM-30 MM cartridge. The phonostage was Cambridge Audio 640p. We listened variety of music -Hindustani Classical (Vilayat Khan, Malini Rajurkar), Hindi movie songs (Jodha Akbar), Ghazal (Mehdi Hasan - Kehna Usey), Western classical, Bengali modern song (Arati Mukherjee)..... The music was supplemented during change over by Asit's own voice echoing the tune just played.
Before telling abount the sound, let me tell about his speaker. It is Canton (Karat-7 if I am not wrong) 22 years old 3-way bookshelf speaker. And oh boy, it is a marvellous sounding speaker. I have not come accross such a marvellous sounding speaker before. The whole presentation was superb because of his speaker and Leben amp combo.

The TT produced outright fluid, embodied sound with big soundstage and neutral sound. There was no dearth of energy and attack whenever required. The mid was transparent (can not be termed as very warm). The base was good and rhythmic. Only, in high notes sometimes the music sounded a bit bright. Asit also noticed the same and slightly adjusted the speed (very little), the brightness of sound got controlled.

The phonostage deserves to be upgraded. Jochen will send Trigon phono to Asit for trial, which I have seen in Jochen's place when I was in Bangalore. It was first made for Ortofon, but subsequently offered in the market. With Ortofon cartridge it is supposed to be a good combination, as told by Jochen.
After receipt of Trigon Asit can make an A-B between Trigon, CA640p and Nighhawk (taking from Pratim or Vasu).

All in all, Scheu Cello is a serious & economic TT with neutral sound. I look forward listening from Asit further after full burning-in and with matching phono.

Regards

 

[Asit]

Amit,
Thanks for coming. It is very helpful to hear opinions from others who go around a bit auditioning good equipments. Somehow I just cannot manage to do it, I am always in such a hurry with work pressure (of late of administrative nature in addition to academic).

Before start of the session, Asit and his wife offered me a very tasty lunch with variety of fishes including Hilsa. Being a bengali it was a very pleasant treat to my taste buds.

Well, it was nothing special really, just whatever we had at home. It just so happened that the previous morning I went to the market and bought 5 different kinds of fish in some decent amount. For the food to be special, either my wife or me had to cook some items, but we ended up having no time for that. So it was our cook, not a very bad one, but nothing special. Next time perhaps, I can cook some of my specialties, hopefully I will be less busy. The sweets (sandesh) were special though.

The Scheu cello looks attratcive with transparent base and frosted acrylic platter. The stylus was Rega RB251 with Ortofon Super OM-30 MM cartridge. The phonostage was Cambridge Audio 640p. We listened variety of music -Hindustani Classical (Vilayat Khan, Malini Rajurkar), Hindi movie songs (Jodha Akbar), Ghazal (Mehdi Hasan - Kehna Usey), Western classical, Bengali modern song (Arati Mukherjee).....

The dots represent Jasraj bhajans, the Confluence LP and some Western classical violin. The above just about covers only the vinyl part. We heard plenty more in CDs and audio cassettes.

Before telling about the sound, let me tell about his speaker. It is Canton (Karat-7 if I am not wrong) 22 years old 3-way bookshelf speaker. And oh boy, it is a marvellous sounding speaker. I have not come accross such a marvellous sounding speaker before.

Well, it's very high praise indeed, given that you have heard quite a lot in the last years and some of them were really expensive and really good. The model name is Karat 60. I also feel quite the same but am afraid to say it in public. I guess one understands the real strength of one's amplifier with such a pair of speakers. It seems as if the Leben and the speakers understand each other. These speakers mated very well with Pratim's Odyssey Kismet amp too. That sound is still etched in my mind, although that was a few months ago.

All in all, Scheu Cello is a serious & economic TT with neutral sound. I look forward listening from Asit further after full burning-in and with matching phono.

Yes, I suppose with 20 hours of playing time, there are indications that the Scheu Cello is starting to give indications that it is perhaps more than what I expected. I will try to confirm this as the TT (along with better phono stage) burns/breaks in more and I will update you all about the developments.

Regards.

 

[Hiten]

Not a technical person as all my gyan is from Google. But I guess Trigon will be better than CA, As trigon has impedance and capacitance matching options(DIP switches). But my humble opinion is to give the turntable sufficiently more hours before proper matching values are determined and purchase is finalised.
RIAA-amp: input impedance

 

[arj]

Hi Asit,
I am really looking forward to your Trigon comparison as well.If you can please do try to compare with Virens Phono as well ?

i had been travelling so much the last few months and getting jet lagged everywhere that did not get too much time with my TT.
last weekend i made some time and put in a new SS/Brass based bearing for the Lenco and ran it in for 30 hours. I put my 1st LP in and was shocked with the amount of change i got..never realised the importance of a bearing although i had read about it

Of course the Scheu has a great bearing, but the lenco really got a steroid shot with the new one. What i really need to now do is get the VTA right...thats something i am reading up a lot on.

 

[Asit]

Hiten,
The phono-stage has a somewhat complex job to do. The signal from the cart is dominated by high frequencies and is an order of magnitude weaker than line level. So the it has to act as an equalizer and then amplify the sound to line level. Therefore good phono-stages are a breed by themselves. In a cheap phonostage like my current CA640p, compromises have to made especially with respect to the quality of components and QC, and perhaps also in design although the design is acceptable I think because it does a very good job at its price point. Many people mod these quite significantly and sell at USD 600 and above. There are excellent and very very long threads on these mods (these are given in my phono pre thread). However, given the complex job a phonostage has to do, the Trigon Vanguard and RS Nighthawk should improve on the 640p significantly. This is my expectation. Time will tell.

I will discuss about your earlier post with Jochen.

Regards.

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Asit,

A nice looking table you've got. Must be quite a step up from the one you had earlier. A Dual was it? My memory fails... Congratulations! All the best deciding on a suitable phonostage to go with it.

Regards

 

[Asit]

Thanks stevieboy for the encouragement. Yes, it is definitely a step-up from my previous Dual CS5000 TT.

However, the Dual CS 5000 was one of their better ones, and IMO quite a bit ahead of the current entry-level Pro-ject tables. It was never a table which had the bass depth or a lot of dynamic range, but overall produced better musicality and general clarity over the Pro-ject tables I heard (Debut III, RPM4 and a poorly set-up Xperience III). I never changed the stock cart (Ortofon OMB 20) it came with until one day it just fell off. Presently it has an almost new Shure M97xE and I need to find a replacement motor for it so that the TT is again up and running and can be put to service in my son's room if he so wishes.

But as I said already, the Scheu is in a different league. I have not heard high end TTs, and obviously do not know how they sound. The Cello is not high end, but it sure is a serious TT. I hope to keep it for a long time, perhaps with upgradations of arm/cart etc as I feel it.

Regards.

 

[Asit]

Hi folks,

Here is a little update while I am waiting to make the phono stage evaluations/compatibility/comparisons.

My TT is now close 30 hours (usage was low last week). At this point I am noticing new improvements (especially with vocals, irrespective of outer groove or inner groove titles). I have a simple way of checking this. I play a few very familiar vinyls periodically with a period of about 10 hours of playing time. Generally, clarity has improved by a notch. But importantly, the microdynamics currently being extracted is very palatable. One of the mild issues in the 6moons review of the Cello with the RB251/SuperOM10 combo was a a bit of a lack of microdynamics and mid-range presence compared to the Jelco+DL103 combo, although overall the reviewer liked the RB251/SuperOM10 combo better.

Well, I have no idea how the Jelco+DL103 sounds, but I am just starting to get an amount midrange detail and microdynamics which is musically very satisfying. I'd suppose, this is perhaps because of my choice of the SuperOM30 cart instead of the stock SuperOM10.

Regards.

 

[marantzcdfan]

critical listening!!

 

[Asit]

Hi folks,

Here is another little report.

Today Pratim came over with a few of his very expensive vinyls and his Ray Samuels Nighthawk phono pre.

For over a couple of hours, we listened to my TT, first with my CA 640p and then with the Ray Samuels.

Brief observations are as follows:

1. There was a general noticeable improvement of the sonics.
2. However, I'll point out also some specific areas of improvement:
a) For the lack of a better word, the music became smoother. There was better flow. It also became cleaner.
b) Instrumental music produced greater identity and separate presence.
c) Bass improvement was the most noticeable. Bass is always quite deep, tight and fast with my speakers. Now with the Nighthawk, the bass also became so much more musical (well rounded and better textured). Tablas sounded simply phenomenal.
d) Vocals became more intimate. Microdynamics really improved.

I have Meeting by the River (Ry Cooder and V M Bhatt) and the Stimela (Hugh Masekela) on CDs. But today Pratim brought those on vinyl, and boy, what a difference. How can I go back and listen to those CDs any more? And I really really thought those CDs were of very high quality and they really are.

Well, it is quite clear that to get the best out of my TT, I need a better phono pre than my 640p, as I already speculated a few times in this thread and in my phono pre thread. However, at 7K, 640p does a commendable job. But I know in real terms my TT can sound even better if I improve on the phono pre.

Regards.

 

[himadri]

Hi Asit

Hi folks,
I have Meeting by the River (Ry Cooder and V M Bhatt) and the Stimela (Hugh Masekela) on CDs. But today Pratim brought those on vinyl, and boy, what a difference. How can I go back and listen to those CDs any more? And I really really thought those CDs were of very high quality and they really are.
Regards.

Great Recordings for Comparing CD v/s TT (Kudos to Pratim for getting those on vinyl).Just for the sake of curiosity, will the competition be more even if the Ayon CD player is used instead of the Cambridge?(assuming that was the hardware used).
Cheers
Himadri

 

[Asit]

Hi Asit

Great Recordings for Comparing CD v/s TT (Kudos to Pratim for getting those on vinyl).Just for the sake of curiosity, will the competition be more even if the Ayon CD player is used instead of the Cambridge?(assuming that was the hardware used).
Cheers
Himadri

Certainly. I have thought about this and someday if Pratim is willing to bring his Ayon CD1, we can do the comparison that way too.

But, let me tell you one thing though. I have heard many expensive CDPs in many expensive set-ups. But despite my modest 740c CDP, the sound in my system is optimized beautifully (really do not want to brag too much about it). Amit himself has the Ayon CD1s CDP and Leben CS300XS amps, but he was simply very very impressed with my system using my CDP and tape deck as sources. I remember, during the CD session, he once commented something like "I do not see any equipments, do not care to know which amp which CDP etc, it's music only coming to my ears". He attributed this result to the wonderful amp+ speaker synergy as he already said he never heard speakers like these before. Actually, it's more than that, I think. In the last couple of years, I have tried so many ICs etc that you cannot imagine. Every little detail (up to the limit of spending power or may be even more) was looked into carefully. Of late I am having excellent isolation of all equipments from the Magic Hexa isolation under the feet of all equipments. I am going to have some other arrangement for my TT after a few months when I can spend some.

Regards.

 

[AMITNOIDA]

I am going to have some other arrangement for my TT after a few months when I can spend some.

Can you share the idea, what arrangement you are going to have for your TT.
Regards

 

[Asit]

In time, it may be a 2 stage arrangement. As you know, right now my TT is placed on the top shelf of my solid teakwood rack. The strength of the rack is its solidity and weight. Firstly, in about 6 months time, in our new apartment, I plan to get a better rack designed with isolation etc in mind. This would of course be for my entire system. I will keep using the same speaker stands made by Sangram. The history of these stands was well documented in my long amp thread. If I bought these stands abroad, it would have cost me a fortune.

The 2nd stage of improvement later may be an isolation board for the TT alone.

Regards.

 

[Bluu]

The 2nd stage of improvement later may be an isolation board for the TT alone.

Jochen has a solid wall mounted setup for his Premier and I think something similar will work very well for you. He has isolation spikes built into the wall-mounted structure and honestly, it seems near perfect sonically. Since the Premier is quite a bit bigger than your Cello, you may not need something that big but it's still worth considering. Only disadvantage is that you lose any portability so you will have to take a long time to think about it.