Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
No problems. Your experiences are fascinating.
Only thing... If I were buying this TT... I'd like the blue one :lol:
My New TT : The Cello from Scheu Analog
- Thread starter anm
- Start date
Only thing... If I were buying this TT... I'd like the blue one :lol:
Very little in this world from equipments to human relationships is fix-it-forget-it type. I hope you guys agree with my views.
Asit, I both agree and disagree. Room acoustics and all the other areas of fixing are, to some extent measurable and fixable. A IC, one fixed will work, unless you tug it out again. Room acoustics can be measured using various instruments. All these fixes, once done will work, unless there is a physical movement again.
My issue with TT and the nylon string is that the whole concept looks fragile. The string is constantly in motion as is the platter. You have to work with fluctuating power supplies that could strain the motor. This, in turn, could affect the speed of the platter. Usually in a scientific experiment, and I am sure you understand this, you come to a conclusion based on some premises, where the number of variables is minimal and controllable. To me, a nylon string, even if it works within a grove at both ends, looks too slippery (like an eel) to give you a dependable constant. Even if the motor rotates at a constant speed, the string has to carry the torque and transfer it to the platter. Let us say we give it a few seconds, and the sheer momentum works to get the platter to speed. You drop an album and a cartridge on top of it, and the resistance again works against the system. So, will the initial few notes player at a slightly slower speed till the momentum and correct speed is transferred back to the platter?
I am sure it does work well, but what I was thinking loud is the concept. As I said it, to me, looks slippery. I was just wondering why there is no other (let us un-slippery) ways of transferring the momentum to the platter. I understand direct drives could add vibration so it is advisable to isolate the motor. But how do we transfer the torque?
You did see that a slightly different length made a difference. We are talking about a few mm here. How many such variations do we need to attempt?
All said, this is all just loud thinking.
Cheers
Last edited:
anm
Well-Known Member
What Asit means regular maintenance - you need to look often whether the IC has come out by accident due to series of events that may happen over the years. Cleaning and taking care in general.
Hi Asit
What i meant was there is a lot more tweaking that one can do with a belt drive. With a direct drive its much less. In my case with the EMT, there is nothing that i can do. Not even try a different cartridge. I did not want other readers to get an impression that all turntables need a lot of adjustments. There are some which are much simpler to use.
What i meant was there is a lot more tweaking that one can do with a belt drive. With a direct drive its much less. In my case with the EMT, there is nothing that i can do. Not even try a different cartridge. I did not want other readers to get an impression that all turntables need a lot of adjustments. There are some which are much simpler to use.
Venkat,
You are right that if the string slips, then there would be a 2-fold problem: 1) the pitch will change, 2) the motor will have to self correct.
As I explained before, the slippage takes place only when the string is too tight. The situation is the same with a rubber belt, and that's why TTs come with their own belt of a particular length, depending on the distance between the pulley and the platter. One cannot use just any rubber belt for a particular TT. If the rubber belt is too tight, let's say if one uses by mistake a rubber belt which is slightly shorter than ideal, the same two problems as described above may appear. This can be a problem for any belt-drive TT, with rubber belts or with the nylon string as in this case.
Now with usage, the rubber belts generally expand and slacken. This is okay, I believe, to a point, beyond which there will be no tension and as a result the platter will not rotate. In addition, for a rubber belt, there can be other problems due to its composition, for example its elastic and frictional properties against thermal variations. Some of these variations may work against the sonics.
Now with the extremely thin nylon string, some of the problems of the rubber belts are absent, I suppose that is the experience of Scheu (as they say they have tried all kinds of material for a number of years and then finally settled for this for all their TTs going upto the top end) and all other people who use some kind of a fine string even with other tables such as VPI.
That means one just has to make sure that the string is not too tight. There has to be just enough tension so that the platter rotates, and the speed will lock to whatever is desirable (set finely by rotating a small screw, over and above setting by a switch to 33 1/3 or 45 rpm) with or without the cartridge on the groove. Having the platter along with a record and the weight of the tiny cart plus the tone arm is no problem. Actually having a centre weight of a few kilos is pretty usual in this business and is mostly recommended. The speed still locks as long as there is just enough tension in the string. I suppose I have some degree of credibility (being a musician myself) when I say that to my ears the pitch does not dwindle even a bit. One just needs to make sure that the string is not too tight to protect the motor against a cycle of self correction when slippage takes place (which happens only when the string is too tight, as explained in one of my previous posts). Actually, this is the sole reason I made a less tighter string, to be absolutely safe on the motor).
There are two other important issues connected with the reliability of this drive: it is the bearing and the surface properties of the platter. The bearing of the Scheu is top notch. As I pointed out in my phono pre thread, a few reviewers were quite amazed at the quality of the bearing of Scheu. Without any power to the motor, if one just rotates the platter lightly, it keeps rotating for a long time. How long? One reviewer reportedly stopped his watch after five minutes. The other issue is the surface properties of the special acrylic platter. It could be that with other kind of platter, the protection against slippage will be less for this nylon string. As a matter of fact, I personally do not think this nylon string will work with the Aluminium platter of my Dual CS5000 or say the VPI classic which too has a Aluminium platter, a huge one.
Well, to summarize, in the above, I have tried to argue that some issues with the nylon string are generic to all belt-drives. However, Scheu thinks that there are some advantages of the nylon string in these tables given their excellent bearing and the acrylic platter. I lived in Germany for 4 years in a very important phase of my life, both professionally and personally. When some brand has a cult like following in Germany, and is very well respected in other parts of the world (in fact it is pretty difficult to find a bad user report on the net, and I checked even the German forums), there cannot be too much wrong with their design philosophy (there can always be one bad piece here and there). The string has been there for a number of years.
Prem,
Not being able to tweak at all (not even the cart) may not be to everybody's liking. EMT is a legendary brand and they know what they are doing for sure. It's actually an engineering marvel. If you like the strictly plug and play, I should not complain. In fact, I may actually like it more, who knows (if somebody as good as Herr Dipl-Ingr. Hans-Ludwig Dusch already employs all the tweaks or set-ups for me). At the end of the day, all designs will have some limitations, and that's why there are alternative designs still loved by folks. Believe it or not, in the last 20 days, I have been there twice in Bombay, and either time, I did not have any time to even call people like you there. In between these trips I was abroad. Hopefully later in the year, I will finally be able to come and listen to your EMT.
Long time ago, once I had a belt drive, although a pretty low end, and for some reason I do not have fond memories of that TT. Idler drives I have never tried. Once I came pretty close to buying a Thorens, a long time ago, it seems now.
Regards.
You are right that if the string slips, then there would be a 2-fold problem: 1) the pitch will change, 2) the motor will have to self correct.
As I explained before, the slippage takes place only when the string is too tight. The situation is the same with a rubber belt, and that's why TTs come with their own belt of a particular length, depending on the distance between the pulley and the platter. One cannot use just any rubber belt for a particular TT. If the rubber belt is too tight, let's say if one uses by mistake a rubber belt which is slightly shorter than ideal, the same two problems as described above may appear. This can be a problem for any belt-drive TT, with rubber belts or with the nylon string as in this case.
Now with usage, the rubber belts generally expand and slacken. This is okay, I believe, to a point, beyond which there will be no tension and as a result the platter will not rotate. In addition, for a rubber belt, there can be other problems due to its composition, for example its elastic and frictional properties against thermal variations. Some of these variations may work against the sonics.
Now with the extremely thin nylon string, some of the problems of the rubber belts are absent, I suppose that is the experience of Scheu (as they say they have tried all kinds of material for a number of years and then finally settled for this for all their TTs going upto the top end) and all other people who use some kind of a fine string even with other tables such as VPI.
That means one just has to make sure that the string is not too tight. There has to be just enough tension so that the platter rotates, and the speed will lock to whatever is desirable (set finely by rotating a small screw, over and above setting by a switch to 33 1/3 or 45 rpm) with or without the cartridge on the groove. Having the platter along with a record and the weight of the tiny cart plus the tone arm is no problem. Actually having a centre weight of a few kilos is pretty usual in this business and is mostly recommended. The speed still locks as long as there is just enough tension in the string. I suppose I have some degree of credibility (being a musician myself) when I say that to my ears the pitch does not dwindle even a bit. One just needs to make sure that the string is not too tight to protect the motor against a cycle of self correction when slippage takes place (which happens only when the string is too tight, as explained in one of my previous posts). Actually, this is the sole reason I made a less tighter string, to be absolutely safe on the motor).
There are two other important issues connected with the reliability of this drive: it is the bearing and the surface properties of the platter. The bearing of the Scheu is top notch. As I pointed out in my phono pre thread, a few reviewers were quite amazed at the quality of the bearing of Scheu. Without any power to the motor, if one just rotates the platter lightly, it keeps rotating for a long time. How long? One reviewer reportedly stopped his watch after five minutes. The other issue is the surface properties of the special acrylic platter. It could be that with other kind of platter, the protection against slippage will be less for this nylon string. As a matter of fact, I personally do not think this nylon string will work with the Aluminium platter of my Dual CS5000 or say the VPI classic which too has a Aluminium platter, a huge one.
Well, to summarize, in the above, I have tried to argue that some issues with the nylon string are generic to all belt-drives. However, Scheu thinks that there are some advantages of the nylon string in these tables given their excellent bearing and the acrylic platter. I lived in Germany for 4 years in a very important phase of my life, both professionally and personally. When some brand has a cult like following in Germany, and is very well respected in other parts of the world (in fact it is pretty difficult to find a bad user report on the net, and I checked even the German forums), there cannot be too much wrong with their design philosophy (there can always be one bad piece here and there). The string has been there for a number of years.
Prem,
Not being able to tweak at all (not even the cart) may not be to everybody's liking. EMT is a legendary brand and they know what they are doing for sure. It's actually an engineering marvel. If you like the strictly plug and play, I should not complain
. In fact, I may actually like it more, who knows (if somebody as good as Herr Dipl-Ingr. Hans-Ludwig Dusch already employs all the tweaks or set-ups for me). At the end of the day, all designs will have some limitations, and that's why there are alternative designs still loved by folks. Believe it or not, in the last 20 days, I have been there twice in Bombay, and either time, I did not have any time to even call people like you there. In between these trips I was abroad. Hopefully later in the year, I will finally be able to come and listen to your EMT.Long time ago, once I had a belt drive, although a pretty low end, and for some reason I do not have fond memories of that TT. Idler drives I have never tried. Once I came pretty close to buying a Thorens, a long time ago, it seems now.
Regards.
Last edited:
Hi Asit
I find it strange that in todays world where convenience is everything, people are not designing good plug and play tables. This becomes very important for guys who have been only exposed to cd players.
I find it strange that in todays world where convenience is everything, people are not designing good plug and play tables. This becomes very important for guys who have been only exposed to cd players.
sir,
I don't think a twenty year old company which has reputation to upgrade their products for fidelity refinement will give its customers a turntable which has such a design that it's belt silps.
Yes specially in audio where one will not ever have a perfect super fidelity system (in near future atleast). All are little compromises and a clever implementations and designs to hide them or make them irrelevant. If there was, 'purists' will have nothing to debate about.
Prem,
It all depends on personal preference. Doesn't it? There is not a single THE design. You may like the the simple plug and play, others may not. If you look at it in a holistic way, there is no simple plug and play in this whole business, and that's why people keep on changing gears, cables, positioning, even racks and tube rolling etc etc. That's part of the fun. It's alright as long as people do not forget the ultimate goal, which is music. If a plug and play TT is the ultimate solution, then by market rules, all other designs would be by and now obsolete. Obviously there are advantages to have in other designs. Needless to say, I have deep respect for EMT, but I do not believe it is the only acceptable design.
Venkat,
The top end model in Scheu are "Das Laufwerk No.1 and No.2". These TTs can have a motor with a pulley which can accomodate rubber belt drive, a tape drive, and also the string drive. Three different German reviews of them can be found, and in all 3 reviews, the reviewers conclude that the string drive sounds the best with more open and relaxed sound. I wanted to attach the pdf file of one of these reviews (in "Stereo" magazine, 2009) but I am exceeding the quota for uploading. Anyway, there is a section titled "Mit String klingt es besser" meaning "It sounds better with the string". There is something to this string thing.
Regards.
It all depends on personal preference. Doesn't it? There is not a single THE design. You may like the the simple plug and play, others may not. If you look at it in a holistic way, there is no simple plug and play in this whole business, and that's why people keep on changing gears, cables, positioning, even racks and tube rolling etc etc. That's part of the fun. It's alright as long as people do not forget the ultimate goal, which is music. If a plug and play TT is the ultimate solution, then by market rules, all other designs would be by and now obsolete. Obviously there are advantages to have in other designs. Needless to say, I have deep respect for EMT, but I do not believe it is the only acceptable design.
Venkat,
The top end model in Scheu are "Das Laufwerk No.1 and No.2". These TTs can have a motor with a pulley which can accomodate rubber belt drive, a tape drive, and also the string drive. Three different German reviews of them can be found, and in all 3 reviews, the reviewers conclude that the string drive sounds the best with more open and relaxed sound. I wanted to attach the pdf file of one of these reviews (in "Stereo" magazine, 2009) but I am exceeding the quota for uploading. Anyway, there is a section titled "Mit String klingt es besser" meaning "It sounds better with the string". There is something to this string thing.
Regards.
Hi Asit
Never in any post have i said the EMT is the only acceptable design. I am sure there are many players, adopting different design philosophies, better than the EMT. What i would be interested in seeing is more of the EMT types which are ready plug and play. With todays science and technology why cannot someone design an affordable turntable which solves the speed problems once and for all. Is that not the first basic requirement of a table. Even a 2-3% change in speed can make the music sound very different.
Even with a plug and play, there are still many variables like cables, shelf, etc. Something as simple to use as a cd player is what i would like to see in some new designs. There was and a laser table which solved the problem of a needle but i do not why it was not pushed.
Never in any post have i said the EMT is the only acceptable design. I am sure there are many players, adopting different design philosophies, better than the EMT. What i would be interested in seeing is more of the EMT types which are ready plug and play. With todays science and technology why cannot someone design an affordable turntable which solves the speed problems once and for all. Is that not the first basic requirement of a table. Even a 2-3% change in speed can make the music sound very different.
Even with a plug and play, there are still many variables like cables, shelf, etc. Something as simple to use as a cd player is what i would like to see in some new designs. There was and a laser table which solved the problem of a needle but i do not why it was not pushed.
Last edited:
Prem,
I did understand your point, did not say that you proclaim the EMT to be the only solution. However, you want a plug and play TT at affordable costs. This may be a contradiction in itself. As I understand and commented in a different thread, the TT is the only audio device where electronics plays no part, there is use of electromagnetism in the motor and the cartridge. It is mostly a mechanical device designed to pick up tiny signals from tinier grooves of a record. The engineering has to be of a very high quality to get this right. A laser will perhaps get rid of the cartridge, but it will not solve the other mostly mechanical parts of the platter, the plinth, the bearing, the motor and the drive. If you change these in a fundamental way, you also change the medium, and perhaps the very nature of vinyl will be lost, and will become a CD Player in a new name.
A very well designed plug & play TT like the EMT will cost a bomb these days in my opinion. It will not be financially feasible. The attention of the world is more on digitized data, just because it is easier to handle.
In summary, I do not think a well implemented plug&play type TT at affordable costs will ever exist just because of the nature of the TT. It is a very very high precision instrument which uses mechanics (and not optics like in camera lenses, or definitely not electronics as used everywhere these days).
I think it is better to appreciate the very nature of this particular instrument. Classical mechanics has remained the same from the days of Newton. So the only way a TT can be changed/modernized/(improved?) is to bring in new physics and engineering, but then it will not remain the same medium. By its intrinsic nature, it is NOT plug and play. EMT is an exception and not a rule, and comes at a fair price. Most audio enthusiasts including me cannot even think of owning a refurbished EMT.
The speed issue of a belt drive is not really a special issue. Frankly I do not see the specific problem that you have mentioned in your last post. It is a generic problem. If I want to rotate a platter feeding electromagnetic energy using whatever drives (direct, belt), the basic remains that it is impossible to decouple the motor and the platter electromagnetically and mechanically. You just cannot avoid it. All drives will have their intrinsic problem, direct drives included. These are macroscopic objects in question and speeds are not near the speed of light. Therefore classical electromagnetism and classical Mechanics are the only physics that is applicable here. I have not really understood the part of your comment where you say something about modern science and technology, unless you want to change the medium totally. But then it will physically not remain the vinyl medium anymore, it will become something like a digital medium, as I already commented before.
Regards
I did understand your point, did not say that you proclaim the EMT to be the only solution. However, you want a plug and play TT at affordable costs. This may be a contradiction in itself. As I understand and commented in a different thread, the TT is the only audio device where electronics plays no part, there is use of electromagnetism in the motor and the cartridge. It is mostly a mechanical device designed to pick up tiny signals from tinier grooves of a record. The engineering has to be of a very high quality to get this right. A laser will perhaps get rid of the cartridge, but it will not solve the other mostly mechanical parts of the platter, the plinth, the bearing, the motor and the drive. If you change these in a fundamental way, you also change the medium, and perhaps the very nature of vinyl will be lost, and will become a CD Player in a new name.
A very well designed plug & play TT like the EMT will cost a bomb these days in my opinion. It will not be financially feasible. The attention of the world is more on digitized data, just because it is easier to handle.
In summary, I do not think a well implemented plug&play type TT at affordable costs will ever exist just because of the nature of the TT. It is a very very high precision instrument which uses mechanics (and not optics like in camera lenses, or definitely not electronics as used everywhere these days).
I think it is better to appreciate the very nature of this particular instrument. Classical mechanics has remained the same from the days of Newton. So the only way a TT can be changed/modernized/(improved?) is to bring in new physics and engineering, but then it will not remain the same medium. By its intrinsic nature, it is NOT plug and play. EMT is an exception and not a rule, and comes at a fair price. Most audio enthusiasts including me cannot even think of owning a refurbished EMT.
The speed issue of a belt drive is not really a special issue. Frankly I do not see the specific problem that you have mentioned in your last post. It is a generic problem. If I want to rotate a platter feeding electromagnetic energy using whatever drives (direct, belt), the basic remains that it is impossible to decouple the motor and the platter electromagnetically and mechanically. You just cannot avoid it. All drives will have their intrinsic problem, direct drives included. These are macroscopic objects in question and speeds are not near the speed of light. Therefore classical electromagnetism and classical Mechanics are the only physics that is applicable here. I have not really understood the part of your comment where you say something about modern science and technology, unless you want to change the medium totally. But then it will physically not remain the vinyl medium anymore, it will become something like a digital medium, as I already commented before.
Regards
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
It is plain that, from the experience of the manufacturers, and from the fact that you have one, in front of you, performing nicely, that it works, and works well.
In the face of that, it doesn't make sense to assert that it shouldn't or might not work! It does.
In the face of that, it doesn't make sense to assert that it shouldn't or might not work! It does.
@ Prem: the reason why I opted for the Clearaudio Ambient is that it is pretty much plug and play! despite it being a belt driven TT....
after using it for a couple of years I appreciate its design more and more. Due to its design, it don't matter what kind of table top you put it on! (just as long as it is flat.) Its motor runs accurately and it even gives a digital readout on its speed, if it runs slower or faster, one simply uses a screw and tweaks the speed in a jiffy! And the performance is just as good as tables twice or thrice its price!
will post some pictures of it soon.
after using it for a couple of years I appreciate its design more and more. Due to its design, it don't matter what kind of table top you put it on! (just as long as it is flat.) Its motor runs accurately and it even gives a digital readout on its speed, if it runs slower or faster, one simply uses a screw and tweaks the speed in a jiffy! And the performance is just as good as tables twice or thrice its price!
will post some pictures of it soon.
sachu888
Well-Known Member
Laser TTs are not preferred due to cost and inability to play even a slightly dirty record.
Regards,
Sachin
Last edited:
Thanks Manav for sharing. My experience is pretty much the same as yours. So far I have not had to touch anything (except making that slightly longer string and putting it on), and do not anticipate doing anything of that sort as long as I am not changing cart and/or tone arm (which is a major change and you will also have to set up the TT anew if you do these changes). Similarly, it is also not a suspended design, and as a result I have to place the TT on flat surface, that's all, as is the case with yours. It is pretty much plug and play, as far as I can see for the past few days. I do not have the digital readout of the speed, that is the only difference, but the Cello has fine speed adjustment through a screw. Quite similar to yours. So the conclusion is, belt drive TTs are also pretty much plug and play, once properly set up.
Will wait for your pictures. The Emotion is a beautiful TT as well. I thought about Emotion but was actually looking for a Marantz 15 TT which is made by Clearaudio and is a slightly upgraded version of the stock Emotion. These TTs are in a way similar to the Scheu Cello in that the plinth and platters are very similar (if my info is correct, the platter is basically the same). I am not sure about the bearing and the motor of these TTs, if there is any similarity.
Regards
Hi folks,
My TT is now exactly 1 week old. I have 16 hours on it and it is starting to sound really really good. Last weekend, Manoj (member mksharan) came over, and we listened together for a couple of hours. He brought with him a few of his favourite LPs. What we observed is that the Scheu Cello really excels when the recording is truly analogue. On the new LPs with digital recording, Manoj said there was not that much of a difference with his Rega P5. With original analogue recording of good quality, the vocals really have a smooth natural texture, that the current generation well produced CDs will not be able to match. We both agreed on this, even though there is a long way to go for the TT to completely break in and at the moment I only have a budget class phono pre-amp.
The main reason for Manoj's visit was to make the record-cleaning solution which got delayed because of the engrossing auditioning session. Some months ago we together bought a bottle of L'Art du Son vinyl cleaning liquid from elusivdisc.com and ended up paying quite a lot on customs duty (I have no idea why). We also bought a gallon of distilled water from the suppliers to the Chemistry Division of our Institute. In addition, Manoj also got hold of two large dark empty bottles. We cleaned the bottles in several stages, but it has been months these things were lying in my home and we did not make time to prepare the solution. Finally we have done it and the whole solution is now split into the two bottles, and Manoj went home happily with his bottle. We have to now clean some old records with this solution, and find out how good it is.
Thanks to all the people who initiated and participated in the discussion of the drive of a TT, I have started reading more seriously about the subject. I am not sure how far I can go, given my schedule. But, let me tell you, if you did not know it already, this is a very complicated subject, far more complex than I initially thought. All designs are making some compromises, and there is some indication that even all designers may not be fully aware of all the potential sources of error. Yes, it is that complicated. I also found out that the oil that I poured in the bearing actually has a purpose quite opposite to my initial thinking, it is to produce a viscous surrounding to the bearing. Hence it is actually supposed to produce a bit of friction and that is actually needed. If I understand all the issues reasonably well, I will try to write in a way for everybody to understand. But, I am convinced that this whole issue of the drive (including the motor, the pulley, the platter, the bearing and the belt/string for belt drives, for example) is a very deep subject, one that we cannot even ask some questions about casually, as we so far have done in this thread. It may even be better for us not to think too much about these technicalities, if we are sure we are happy with the music. For the people who would care about only music, it is perhaps better to skip some of these discussions. Prem mentioned about 2-3% change in speed resulting in a big degradation in reproduction of music. I agree completely. Actually I think I will detect far less percentage in deviation in speed just by listening. From a listener point of view, listening is the best judge.
After Manav's recent post, I also looked up the Clearaudio Emotion that he has and comparisons with my Cello (he has a very good arm and cart combo though). I am quite certain (following posts by many people in different forums) that the Emotion has the platter made by Scheu.
Regards.
My TT is now exactly 1 week old. I have 16 hours on it and it is starting to sound really really good. Last weekend, Manoj (member mksharan) came over, and we listened together for a couple of hours. He brought with him a few of his favourite LPs. What we observed is that the Scheu Cello really excels when the recording is truly analogue. On the new LPs with digital recording, Manoj said there was not that much of a difference with his Rega P5. With original analogue recording of good quality, the vocals really have a smooth natural texture, that the current generation well produced CDs will not be able to match. We both agreed on this, even though there is a long way to go for the TT to completely break in and at the moment I only have a budget class phono pre-amp.
The main reason for Manoj's visit was to make the record-cleaning solution which got delayed because of the engrossing auditioning session. Some months ago we together bought a bottle of L'Art du Son vinyl cleaning liquid from elusivdisc.com and ended up paying quite a lot on customs duty (I have no idea why). We also bought a gallon of distilled water from the suppliers to the Chemistry Division of our Institute. In addition, Manoj also got hold of two large dark empty bottles. We cleaned the bottles in several stages, but it has been months these things were lying in my home and we did not make time to prepare the solution. Finally we have done it and the whole solution is now split into the two bottles, and Manoj went home happily with his bottle. We have to now clean some old records with this solution, and find out how good it is.
Thanks to all the people who initiated and participated in the discussion of the drive of a TT, I have started reading more seriously about the subject. I am not sure how far I can go, given my schedule. But, let me tell you, if you did not know it already, this is a very complicated subject, far more complex than I initially thought. All designs are making some compromises, and there is some indication that even all designers may not be fully aware of all the potential sources of error. Yes, it is that complicated. I also found out that the oil that I poured in the bearing actually has a purpose quite opposite to my initial thinking, it is to produce a viscous surrounding to the bearing. Hence it is actually supposed to produce a bit of friction and that is actually needed. If I understand all the issues reasonably well, I will try to write in a way for everybody to understand. But, I am convinced that this whole issue of the drive (including the motor, the pulley, the platter, the bearing and the belt/string for belt drives, for example) is a very deep subject, one that we cannot even ask some questions about casually, as we so far have done in this thread. It may even be better for us not to think too much about these technicalities, if we are sure we are happy with the music. For the people who would care about only music, it is perhaps better to skip some of these discussions. Prem mentioned about 2-3% change in speed resulting in a big degradation in reproduction of music. I agree completely. Actually I think I will detect far less percentage in deviation in speed just by listening. From a listener point of view, listening is the best judge.
After Manav's recent post, I also looked up the Clearaudio Emotion that he has and comparisons with my Cello (he has a very good arm and cart combo though). I am quite certain (following posts by many people in different forums) that the Emotion has the platter made by Scheu.
Regards.
Congrats! Enjoying reading about it here.
For a moment, I thought you started with two large dark "non-empty"
bottles and cleaned them in several stages.
Maybe the TT would have sounded even better!
For a moment, I thought you started with two large dark "non-empty"
bottles and cleaned them in several stages.
Maybe the TT would have sounded even better!
Hehe! As Manoj told me, initially when they were 'non-empty', those were Methanol bottles. Neither of us would be here if we drank that. That was the reason for cleaning them in several stages spread over a period of time.
To check it out, I have hastily cleaned one old (originally bought new, but some years ago) record with the L'Art du Son cleaning solution. There is quite a lot of improvement, but some crackles are still there. It needs a bit more of the same cleaning job. I also think the way I am using the solution is not the best. More on that later.
Regards.
Asit-da,
Congratulations !
Was travelling a lot most of the last 3-4 weeks hence missed most of this fun conversation.
Overall its great to know you are thrilled with your setup..and thats the only thing which matters
I have only realised the pit i have fallen into when i bought the lenco..have now got a special bearing to replace the custom one and also committed myself to a Thomas Schick Tonearm..also got a DL103... will wait for all that to be shipped and set in over the next 3 months
how goes the phono stage research ?
Congratulations !
Was travelling a lot most of the last 3-4 weeks hence missed most of this fun conversation.
Overall its great to know you are thrilled with your setup..and thats the only thing which matters
I have only realised the pit i have fallen into when i bought the lenco..have now got a special bearing to replace the custom one and also committed myself to a Thomas Schick Tonearm..also got a DL103... will wait for all that to be shipped and set in over the next 3 months
how goes the phono stage research ?
Arj,
Thanks a lot. Yes, so far I have liked the TT. I am also happy that I upgraded from Super OM 10 to Super OM 30 for the cart. I think it is making a difference. I have approximately 17 hours on the TT now. Of course, it is not the time to make any final judgment on sonic qualities. As I said before, I will wait till about 30 hours, before making more definitive impressions.
On the phono pre front: well, at the moment, I am running the TT with the CA 640p which I already had. It is actually pretty darn good for the price. However, the TT at the least deserves auditioning with better phono stages. Jochen now got the Trigon Vanguard II along with the Volcano III power supply. If he sends me those, I will have a better idea perhaps around next weekend (not this one) about the improvement that can be expected with these sort of phono stages. I'll also have the Nighthawk-owners (Pratim and Vasu) invited so that comparisons can be made. The Trigon needs also to burn in for a faithful comparison.
Bets of wishes for the operations on the Lenco.
Regards.
Thanks a lot. Yes, so far I have liked the TT. I am also happy that I upgraded from Super OM 10 to Super OM 30 for the cart. I think it is making a difference. I have approximately 17 hours on the TT now. Of course, it is not the time to make any final judgment on sonic qualities. As I said before, I will wait till about 30 hours, before making more definitive impressions.
On the phono pre front: well, at the moment, I am running the TT with the CA 640p which I already had. It is actually pretty darn good for the price. However, the TT at the least deserves auditioning with better phono stages. Jochen now got the Trigon Vanguard II along with the Volcano III power supply. If he sends me those, I will have a better idea perhaps around next weekend (not this one) about the improvement that can be expected with these sort of phono stages. I'll also have the Nighthawk-owners (Pratim and Vasu) invited so that comparisons can be made. The Trigon needs also to burn in for a faithful comparison.
Bets of wishes for the operations on the Lenco.
Regards.
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Red Mahogany finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
