POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[ajay124]

Today I began exploring options for providing safe,uniform power and protection to my cdp/pre/power amp.Everytime I press the crazy membrane switch of the Bryston 4B SST,I am mortally scared that the twin green lights will not come on.And when it powers on,I heave a sigh of relief.Possessiveness leads to anxiety and I am very possesive of the Bryston's.Can live with it forever as long as those little green eyes keep blazing.
What I know is what I have learnt today.Scanned a couple of threads on the forum in the morning and got busy on google and the phone.
It's a pain having one's precious gear blow out.Better to be protected and have safe...sound
Need something which can handle 1.5 KVA peak power consumption,provide consistent voltage between 230-240 volts
with 1% +/- variation,spike protection,RFI/EMI filters and Isolation.

Options at the moment:

1 APC SURT 2000UXI.2 KVA Online UPS.30K.Provides all the above and also a 15 minute back up.Since current is converted from a/c to d/c and back into a/c,
no chance of a spike or surge passing through to the equipment.
No transformer,therefore no noise.Local dealer and service.Negatives-has two cooling fans-which I will be auditioning tomorrow for their 'nuisance' factor.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource...ku=SURT2000UXI

2 Vertex 2KVA Servo Stabilizer +Isolation Transformer.App 20K+.Positives-No fan noise.Negatives-No power back up.
Slower correction time with basic spike protection,which may allow a surge in power beyond 240 to be passed on to the equipment.
Transformer noise would require an Isolation transformer.Dealer/service from Chennai.

3 Krykard Same as Vertex .Price cheaper by 4-5K.Service from Delhi.

4 Local Servo Stabilizer+Isolation Transformer built in Chandigarh.12K.Positives-Cheap,Local service.Negatives-Reliability?

5 CVT? Negatives -Noisy.Request more information.

 

[borg]

online ups is the best bet

servo stabilisers the correction is done mechanically( a moving contact connects to an exposed windings of a transformer) so it is too slow to prevent any fast risetime surge at the output

CVT has very good regulation and it wont let any spikes through but there is various issues like stability with dynamic load, noise, it has a overcurrent threshold with sharp knee,(see the pic), so i am not sure of its use for audio applications

 

[hifiashok]

i hav mentioned this at a few places elsewhere on the forum.

i hav a friend who designs, programs and manufactures one of the best o/l UPSs in india. he also happens to love audio, and has done installations for some hi-end audio equipment power conditioning.

he recommended a CVT to me over the o/l UPS, with justifiable reasons.

if reasonable cost power conditioning is the need, CVT is a yeah and a UPS is a nay. however, if un-interrupted power is a need, UPS.

on the issues with a CVT, careful planning, positioning and ventilation do the needful.

 

[arj]

i would recommend a regenerator.
I use a monarchy regenerator (100W) for the source..one of the best upgrades I have ever made for the $$$ !
it not just improved the soundstaging and removed any background noise but also brought back a certain soul to music.

if you want to use this into a power amp then a Purepower Regenerator is the best but too expensive..the next best choice would be the APC regenerator you have mentioned above.

I have very rarely heard of people being successful with Stabilizers in a really good audio setup..in the end an amp needs almost instantaneous power and Id be very surprised if a stabilizer could provide it faster than a re- generator.

for lower cost a isolation transformer with mild filtering may be a better option.

 

[sam9s]

I was in the same boat in the summers of 2010, when I was having a hard time, having and maintaining the power and the backup. After all my research I went for Online UPS, and that is THE best solution for intensive equipment. Check out my below post I made in one of my thread I started for the same issue ...

http://www.hifivision.com/audio-vid...lectricity-low-voltage-help-5.html#post158243

Long story short I went for Microtech 2KVA Online UPS, its been more than 6 months now and (touch wood) I have not faced and issue with any electrical disturbance what so ever while running my entire setup .....

Hope this helps ...

 

[srinisundar]

Quick reply without seeing ur link>>> How much cost it Sam??

OK.. Got it..20K..Thanks

 

[prem]

I use a CVT. In the past i have used Shunyata Hydra, Powerwing and Running Springs Audio Haley. I prefer the CVT to all of these.

 

[arj]

Prem, one important factor for you is you use an SET...in your case the dynamic power requirement would not be difficult !.

this would not be a problem even if you use Pure ClassA amp as the input power would be constant.

a Bryston is another kettle of Fish

 

[mandeep]

Options at the moment:

1 APC SURT 2000UXI.2 KVA Online UPS.30K.Provides all the above and also a 15 minute back up.Since current is converted from a/c to d/c and back into a/c,
no chance of a spike or surge passing through to the equipment.
No transformer,therefore no noise.Local dealer and service.Negatives-has two cooling fans-which I will be auditioning tomorrow for their 'nuisance' factor.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource...ku=SURT2000UXI

Hello ajay124, an Online UPS is a very good way to protect AV eqiupment.

Apart from APC, you should also consider EMERSON - Liebert UPS.

I use Liebert 1KVA online UPS for my Projector, purchased one year ago for Rs 16800/- with bill+one year warranty.

Purchased thro' ----> SINEWAVE Technologies Int.
AQCB Certified ISO 9001:2000 Company
Winner: Emerson's Service Excellence Award for being No.1 Service Provider (All-India)
SCO-832, IInd Floor, NAC Manimajra, Chandigarh.
Tel No: 0172-6546902.

There are also other Liebert dealers in chandigarh, but only "SINEWAVE Technologies Int" offered me the best price.

During the time i was looking for my Online UPS, i found out Emerson-Liebert were the market leader in chandigarh for Online UPS and APC was mostly selling Line interactive UPS and APC online UPS were not VFM.

Cheers

 

[ajay124]

The general consensus seems to favour an online UPS.
It would be nice if the owner's of the brands mentioned :
APC,Microtech and Emerson Liebert could post more information about
The positives
The negatives
Load handling.What happens to the system in case of a power surge?Cut-Off?Standby?Carry on without a hitch?
Number of units connected.Directly to the UPS or through an extension box?
Dealers
Prices
Servicing,Warranties,Amc's.Problems encountered if any.
Aesthetics.Is the battery built in or on a seperate rack/box.
Since the UPS is big and cannot be hidden away,the look and finish is important.
@prem
Why did you finally opt for a CVT?How noisy is it?Have you kept it in the same room or a different one?

 

[hifiashok]

1 APC SURT 2000UXI.2 KVA Online UPS.30K.Provides all the above and also a 15 minute back up.Since current is converted from a/c to d/c and back into a/c,
no chance of a spike or surge passing through to the equipment.
No transformer,therefore no noise.Local dealer and service.Negatives-has two cooling fans-which I will be auditioning tomorrow for their 'nuisance' factor.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource...ku=SURT2000UXI

A UPS needs to have a transformer.

 

[borg]

SURT series and similar Liebert, UPS'S belong to so called "transformerless" category, meaning they wont have bulky iron cored transformers like the old generation UPS's.They employ high frequency dc-dc conversion and the only transformers you can find are small ferrite cored pcb mounted tfrs for bias supply etc

 

[prem]

Hi Arj

Yours is a very valid point that SET and Class A amps have a constant load.

 

[borg]

The general consensus seems to favour an online UPS.
.What happens to the system in case of a power surge?Cut-Off?Standby?Carry on without a hitch?

In online ups's like SURT or similar liebert, the load is always at the output of inverter which is totally isolated from the input so any surge at the input wont have any effect on output

 

[borg]

Hi Arj

Yours is a very valid point that SET and Class A amps have a constant load.

If the load is constant and you dont need backup then CVT is an excellent choice.Keeping it stable(without breaking into oscillation) for a wide range of loads is very tricky

 

[srinisundar]

I am also in this band looking for solution to install WHAT?. Just my 2 cents by giving an link..

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Electronics+Promotions/A+Guide+to+A/V+Surge+Protectors/pcmcat93000050029.c?id=pcmcat93000050029

DeltaSurgeProtectors.com - Products

Experts can help us to decide further...

 

[arj]

The general consensus seems to favour an online UPS.
It would be nice if the owner's of the brands mentioned :
APC,Microtech and Emerson Liebert could post more information about
The positives
The negatives
Load handling.What happens to the system in case of a power surge?Cut-Off?Standby?Carry on without a hitch?
Number of units connected.Directly to the UPS or through an extension box?

For APC: go for the SURT2000XLI at least. this means a power of 2KVA = 1.6KW. this will work very well upto around 1.2KW
for amps..just multiply the rating by 4...that would be the maximum dynamic requirement.

these come in with lead acid sealed batteries inside which may need replacement every 2 years or so...cost around Rs600 per batterypack (my guess)
ht/wt/backup time should be present in their website. only problem is the sound it makes..hence better kept in another room !
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SURT2000XLI&total_watts=300
While i do not have this only the regular UPS for non audio pruposes, On comparison, i preferred the APC over microtek purely due to switchover time. the microtech switchover is slower and sometimes the home PC used to go off and then on again with it..while no issue with APC.

But please try it out...am sure any of these guys will do a home demo..each amp reacts differently to power and even though bacground noise willreduce, Dynamics must not be impacted.

 

[captrajesh]

According to may electronic experts, raw power is most desirable for amplifiers as any type of power conditioner would limit the current supply.

But, from the user's perspective, the following aspects are of paramount importance: -

1. Protection is needed to safeguard their precious equipment from the following aberrations in the power supply: -

a. Voltage fluctuations
b. Power surges
c. Line noise

2. Provision of copious amount of pure power on demand to enable them to play music in it's purest form (without starving the equipment especially amplifiers)

What I'm seeing here is that people are recommending one equipment or the other based on their personal experiences which may be specifically suitable for their equipment but may not be suitable for some other setup.

It would be nice for tech gurus to explain the functioning, pros and cons of each type of power management tools like UPS, CVT, Power Regenerator, Servo Stablizer, Spike Protector, Isolation Transformer etc to enable us to select the best equipment / combination of equipments to achieve their objective (of eliminating the aberrations in power supply and getting pure power on demand to play music in it's purest form)

I know google is your best friend but time is not.

 

[ajay124]

Spoke to the APC/Microtek dealers.
APC SURT2000XLI,Best Price 30K.With 4 batteries inside the box.Distinct constant hum of the 2 fans.Otherwise looks like the best bet.Transformerless.
SURT seems to be the older,discontinued model.Newer series is the SRC series.American sockets,would need extension board.

Microtek 2KVA.Best Price 20K.With 6 batteries on a rack/trolley.With Transformer.Would need an extension board.Pricewise,definitely attractive.But I feel the transformerless APC would performe better.
The major problem with both is the fan noise.Will have to explore options for placing outside the room.

 

[ajay124]

SURT series and similar Liebert, UPS'S belong to so called "transformerless" category, meaning they wont have bulky iron cored transformers like the old generation UPS's.They employ high frequency dc-dc conversion and the only transformers you can find are small ferrite cored pcb mounted tfrs for bias supply etc

Will the bulky iron cored transformer of Mikrotek be inferior in performance to the ferrite cored pcb mounted tfrs?
APC at 30K and Mikrotek at 20K means there is a huge price difference.How do they compare on the performance front?