POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[ajay124]

seem very similar from specs.
Ajay, did you get to listen to these ? please do hear them once on your system . if you could check out both the midrange as well as the dynamics of it once. ideally you should see an improvement in the timing and pace of music. if not , they are not able to give your system the power it needs at that instant.

Neither APC nor Emerson is allowing a home audition.Strictly cash first,Try later!
I liked Emerson because it has a capacity of 2kva/1600W as compared to APC's 2kva/1400W.Maybe APC is more conservative in their specs.I have only inquired about the peak power consumption of the 4B SST,which is 900kva.But if the total consumption with cdp/pre/power exceeds 1400 kva,then the APC may signal overload!At the moment I am more inclined towards APC,because I felt the fans were more silent and because of a general perception,even among dealers of rival brands,that APC is the market leader and the benchmark for online UPS system.Mikrotek is certainly great value for money and would
do the needful,but it is not perceived in the same league as the other two.Also in Mikrotek,batteries are external and the whole unit is mounted in a trolley.APC is a slim,sleek,one box unit which will blend in better.APC is providing a two year replacement warranty for parts and battery,against Emerson's one year.Both APC and Emerson recommend direct connection to the cdp/pre/power.No extension board.They have agreed to provide three
power cables which will directly plug into individual sockets behind the UPC and at the other end have male plugs,similar to the one's I am currently using.I have been told that as long as these cables are 4mm sq. thickness,they would be fine.Cables are generic,wall-wart stuff.Probably cost about 100 bucks each.Later I plan to upgrade to Wattgate/Furutech with XLO cables.

 

[ajay124]

Is a direct connection to a wall outlet with no power conditioning the best option?
James Tanner,the Bryston boss seems to think so in this forum exchange.
Should i use a Surge Pro/Line Conditioner?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=169.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70904.20

 

[arj]

Is a direct connection to a wall outlet with no power conditioning the best option?
James Tanner,the Bryston boss seems to think so in this forum exchange.
Should i use a Surge Pro/Line Conditioner?

Ajay124, if you were in Mumbai,then you wouldnot need it for the amp..the power there is good. In bangalore, anything will make a difference as the power here really sucks !
In the end it depends on the quality of power at your place. one way to figure out is to check the difference in music between evening 3 pm and night post 11:00 pm. in my place there is a Huge difference in the tonality/details as well as soundstage (accounting for the ambient noise factor)

one reason a direct connection is recommended is that if an amp needs that much power in that microsecond and does not get it at thet instant then your sound will be compromised !

Wish there were an option of comparing the two...

 

[longshanks]

Is a direct connection to a wall outlet with no power conditioning the best option?

Could be the best option if you are not living in India.

 

[ajay124]

@arj
As I dig deeper into the labyrinth,the question seems to be,should I even go in for any kind of ups/stabilzer?
The audiocircle power conditioning thread is a good find,as all the issues I am grappling with are discussed there.Fan noise seems to be a major issue and most of these guys seem to be replacing the fans with quiter one's or reducing their speed in order to reduce noise.Apart from the fan issue many user's seem to believe that the sound is cleaner and better with an online UPS in the chain.

The 15 amp sockets immediately before my inverter,were slightly blackened,suggesting some kind of overload.Removing the Belkin surge protector to which my cdp/amps are connected,from this chain and connecting it to a 15 amp socket NOT connected to the inverter,caused a dramatic improvement in detail and clarity,leading me to believe that the earlier connection routed through the inverter may have been starving the power amp,leading to compromised dynamics.

 

[arj]

The 15 amp sockets immediately before my inverter,were slightly blackened,suggesting some kind of overload.
.

my guess is this is because of Sparking due to bad contacts.

The best thing you can do is run an independant line to your room and dedicate that socket to audio..you will get thebest benefit there. use good quality sockets and Plugs (they make a difference to the quality of contact).

I have been grappling with Power and its impact for more than a year and am still not decided ( I ma protected against overloading). one thing i did decide was put a regenerator (non UPS and without batterys) just before the source and the impact was Huge. but am still not sure about the Amp+Subs..and how much they will benefit.

there are people who have used a regenerator and have been very happy with it and feel it is a "Upgrade" well worth the money...but since your original problem was about protection, these are too much of an overkill for just that problem. this gives you a much better quality power and a battery backup and should be in consideration Only if you want these two options as well !

 

[ajay124]

The new model APC SRC2000XLI is not available with local dealer's but has arrived in the company godown in Delhi.I have tentatively told them to send one unit to Chandigarh for me.It would probably arrive with the dealer tomorrow,when I would need to make a final call.
The other option would be to buy nothing or one or more of the option's given by Vertex
2kva servo stabilizer with filters 12.5K
Isolation Transformer (aluminium) 6K
Isolation Transformer (copper) 9.5K
OBO surge arrester (manufactured in Germany) 3.5K
Mr.Manjunath 09886081610 at Vertex is a great person to talk to,patient,well informed and willing to give good advise even on products he is not dealing with.I respect him for that.I have never like dealers who refuse to discuss or only give negative comments about rival products.

 

[GeorgeO]

Ajay

At the end of the day you have to decide for yourself if you want to take out insurance on your audio equipment by means of a UPS or whatever you decide.If you have a projector then the powering down needs to have a UPS to protect the bulb if you have a power failure. Tanner's pov is from the US perspective, totally not applicable here in India. If you feel that your needs are only for audio, you only need to protect the equipment, not have backup power.

I have a pure sine wave 3KVA APC unit which gives me online power, since I have a projector.This is connected to the grid. My 2 channel audio is connected to my home circuit which has a 1400VA inverter from SuKam (pure sine wave) which works very well for me.

AT the end of the day, pure sine wave is what I believe is the cleanest form of power.

Cheers

 

[ajay124]

@GeorgeO
We probably both have the same Sukam inverter.Would you say the Sukam inverter along with my elementary Belkin surge protector and the MCB's in the main board,are adquate protection for my two channel system?My earlier problem with the inverter may have been caused by a loose connection or a cheap non branded socket/plug as arj says.After I replaced the plug and socket with a new one from Anchor,the inverter seems to be working fine even with the music system.If my existing set up is good enough,then should I refrain from buying anything and save myself the hassle of grappling with the fan noise of a UPS.
At least two or three times a week my Arcam cdp,sometimes the Bryston power amp,used to suddenly switch off,because of a dip in voltage.If this fluctuation was caused by the loose connection/cheap socket then that problem should not reoccur now.But it could also be caused by irregular power supply.Our three phase meter,for many years has been working on two phase because the fault in the third phase could not be located by the personel of the Electricity Board.I am even considering asking them to provide the third phase through a direct overhead line from the pole and using this phase only for my two channel audio.
Would appreciate your advise on all these issues.

 

[arj]

At least two or three times a week my Arcam cdp,sometimes the Bryston power amp,used to suddenly switch off,because of a dip in voltage.If this fluctuation was caused by the loose connection/cheap socket then that problem should not reoccur now.

this is exactly the reason I went for an APC inverter insted of the Microtek (for lights/fan/iMac) ! i felt APC has a much faster switching time to the battery on powerouts...

 

[sam9s]

^^ APC makes inverters as well...??? Well the only reason APC went down in my books was of its incompatibility with a genset. I also have an APC 800VA SmartUps for my gaming machine, and it just does not run on genset, keeps switching between battery and mains. Works well on my Microteck Inverter though (but cant actually use it...... as my gaming beast eats lot of power)......both are pure sine wave BTW...

 

[GeorgeO]

Ajay

I think you are adequately protected.

Why not see how it works for about 3 months and if you are satisfied with how it works , then dont meddle with it! I think you shouldn find it satisfactory. My reason for going for high end UPS was a bit different, since I have a projector and I wanted to connect my NAS to an intelligent UPS.My NAS can power down by itself( provided it is powered by a higher end UPS) if it sense power is reaching critically low levels.

 

[borg]

^^ APC makes inverters as well...??? Well the only reason APC went down in my books was of its incompatibility with a genset. I also have an APC 800VA SmartUps for my gaming machine, and it just does not run on genset, keeps switching between battery and mains. Works well on my Microteck Inverter though (but cant actually use it...... as my gaming beast eats lot of power)......both are pure sine wave BTW...

i have a sua1000 smartups, there is a small switch on the rear side near to a green led pushing it adjusts the sensitivity, once i adjusted it works fine with ny 2.2kva honda genset

 

[borg]

Inverter just bypasses the mains through a changeover relay so it offer no protection
unless it changes over to battery due to a power failure or very low or high voltage(if the inverter has such feature).If your are mains is stable and fluctuations are very rare then a surge protector is enough which you already have

 

[sam9s]

i have a sua1000 smartups, there is a small switch on the rear side near to a green led pushing it adjusts the sensitivity, once i adjusted it works fine with ny 2.2kva honda genset

errr I dont have any LEDs on the rear side, all in the front and I could nto find any switch to change the sensitivity .... may be not for my model ....

 

[borg]

what is your model number, It might be possible to adjust the sensitivity through the bundled software .

 

[arj]

^^ APC makes inverters as well...??? Well the only reason APC went down in my books was of its incompatibility with a genset. I also have an APC 800VA SmartUps for my gaming machine, and it just does not run on genset, keeps switching between battery and mains. Works well on my Microteck Inverter though (but cant actually use it...... as my gaming beast eats lot of power)......both are pure sine wave BTW...

the Gamin PC needs more than 800 VA ? ie around 600 W !!

 

[ajay124]

I am rethinking my requirements and feel that basically what I want is surge protection,rf and emi filters and stable power between 230-240 at all times.I am not very comfortable with the idea of noise from the cooling fans.If we ignore online ups for the moment,the choice seems to be between doing nothing or opting for the Vertex Servo Stabilizer with or without their surge protector.Vertex is willing to build the stabilizer according to my requirements with filters,obo surge protector and sockets which will directly accept the power cables from the cdp,pre and power.No extension board,no isolation transformer.I would prefer to keep the chain small.Would the direct regulated power from the servo be superior to the double converted 'pure sine wave' power of the ups?Since there is no back up,the equipment would abruptly shut off in case of power failure.Is this kind of shutdown harmful for the system or does it make no difference?

 

[sam9s]

the Gamin PC needs more than 800 VA ? ie around 600 W !!

Its not just a gaming PC its a heavy Duty HTPC and acts as server as well on VMware. following is the config ..... The PSU ityself is of 800WATT

Intel C2D 6300 [email protected]
Zalman CPU Air Cooler
Coolermaster 690 Gaming Cabbie
Coolermaster 800W PSU
Winows 2000 Enterprise Edition x64/Windows 7 x64 Dual Boot
ASUS P5B-Delux Wifi MoBo
Tran 6 GB Gaming RAM
Sapphaire ATI Radion 1GB HD5850*2 Crossfire GFX Card
DELL 24" UltraSharp 1080p Display
3.0 TB Internal Storage RAID 0 configured
1.0 TB External Storage eSata option
500GB External Portable Drive
LG Blue Ray/HD DVD Combo Drive
ASUS DVDRW
Microsoft Reclusa backlit Gaming Keyboard
Razor Gaming Mouse
M.XBox wireless controllers
Logitech G27 racing Wheel

, what do you say

ajay no intentions to hijack your thread .....

 

[sidvee]

I am rethinking my requirements and feel that basically what I want is surge protection,rf and emi filters and stable power between 230-240 at all times.I am not very comfortable with the idea of noise from the cooling fans.If we ignore online ups for the moment,the choice seems to be between doing nothing or opting for the Vertex Servo Stabilizer with or without their surge protector.Vertex is willing to build the stabilizer according to my requirements with filters,obo surge protector and sockets which will directly accept the power cables from the cdp,pre and power.No extension board,no isolation transformer.I would prefer to keep the chain small.Would the direct regulated power from the servo be superior to the double converted 'pure sine wave' power of the ups?Since there is no back up,the equipment would abruptly shut off in case of power failure.Is this kind of shutdown harmful for the system or does it make no difference?

I have been using a Vertex Servo Stab 2kva (i have 3 of these for my various systems) for the past 3 years. They built these with better internal cabling (supposedly an audiophile mod). These are working great and in those occasions of power failure - the system just shut down - without any harmful consequences. I even have the Odyssey stratos extreme amp connected through the vertex, and though this amp. is a high current design - I have not personally noticed any detrimental effect on music - regardless of the connection either directly to the outlet or through the vertex. BTW I had my electrician run dedicated connections from the breaker to my listening room.
cheers
Sid