POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[newlash09]

Are you using the CVT from Bhurji? Is there a CVT that will take care of 1,2,and 3? For 4, in my audio chain out of Little Dot MK II pre-amp looks to be having a transformer already, CS 851C CDP and Allo Digione, only the Digione is using a SMPS power, as such only that would be requiring a Galvanic Isolator right? I am also checking if powering the digione with power banks that claim to provide 3 amp / 2.4 amp in a single output port can be an option although i am skeptical if they actually maintain constant voltage of 5 volt with time

Hi again haisaikat...

Iam actually using a CVT I got off Amazon. Below is the link.
https://www.amazon.in/gp/aw/d/B07KYTLQMW/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As regarding the isolation transformer the search continues. This CVT will cover the requirement to keep the voltage steady and also shaping of the sine wave. But it does not offer complete power isolation. So will need an external isolation transformer again.

As regards achieving no.4, if you can feed off the SMPS for the Allo from different wall socket, then it's high frequency return noise will be dumped into a different wall point. And when that travels to your hifi rig, it will be stopped once you have a isolation transformer in place.

 

[haisaikat]

As regards achieving no.4, if you can feed off the SMPS for the Allo from different wall socket, then it's high frequency return noise will be dumped into a different wall point. And when that travels to your hifi rig, it will be stopped once you have a isolation transformer in place

This is a good idea.

I see you are also using a isotek power cable, is that for all devices or particular ones?

 

[antoniodias]

Ajay I think you should wait a while as @ GeorgeO states. Possibly it will now run fine since you have changed all your old sockets to a new branded ones. Best of luck in your decision making

 

[newlash09]

This is a good idea.

I see you are also using a isotek power cable, is that for all devices or particular ones?

Hi again...

I only brought 2 isotek power cables of 1M each. So they are presently feeding the dac cum pre amp and Metrum Ambre. Ideally power cables are supposed to make the biggest difference on power amps. Unfortunately my cables are too short for that at the moment. Will add longer power cables in the future to drive the Poweramp. But the more pressing issue for me right now, is to get a dedicated line from the mains to feed the power amp. And my present in room wiring is unable to cope with the current draw of the amp on powering up.

 

[eddie_fox]

Hi all,

Sorry for re-raising the extensively discussed issue.... CVT vs Online UPS

I have been working without either of these products, but just with a V-Guard Crystal Plus stabiliser for the last few years. I had, fortuitously, not had any problems, till about a few months ago. My power amp section developed an issue and one of the channels needed replacement. Now, the other channel also developed an issue and is being replaced. I borrowed an amp from my friend to test my new speakers and his power amp got damaged as well (one channel). The fuses were blown and replacing them has not restored the functioning. We strongly suspect that these are power related issues in my apartment.

I am now forced to consider buying equipment to avoid further damage to my system. The choices I have are:

CVT + Power Conditioner by a company called Rontek
or
Online UPS - Not sure of the brand yet, as I am still researching.

Some key considerations in my case:
1. My setup is in the living room and I have to keep this power protection unit in the same room (and maybe quite close to the speakers etc.)
2. I am alright with or without backup time for shutdown

Can you please advice which of these products match my requirements?

P.S - I have read all the posts in this thread thoroughly, but am still confused which of the two (CVT or Online UPS) is better. Sorry.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[blackscorpio]

Hi all,

Sorry for re-raising the extensively discussed issue.... CVT vs Online UPS

I have been working without either of these products, but just with a V-Guard Crystal Plus stabiliser for the last few years. I had, fortuitously, not had any problems, till about a few months ago. My power amp section developed an issue and one of the channels needed replacement. Now, the other channel also developed an issue and is being replaced. I borrowed an amp from my friend to test my new speakers and his power amp got damaged as well (one channel). The fuses were blown and replacing them has not restored the functioning. We strongly suspect that these are power related issues in my apartment.

I am now forced to consider buying equipment to avoid further damage to my system. The choices I have are:

CVT + Power Conditioner by a company called Rontek
or
Online UPS - Not sure of the brand yet, as I am still researching.

Some key considerations in my case:
1. My setup is in the living room and I have to keep this power protection unit in the same room (and maybe quite close to the speakers etc.)
2. I am alright with or without backup time for shutdown

Can you please advice which of these products match my requirements?

P.S - I have read all the posts in this thread thoroughly, but am still confused which of the two (CVT or Online UPS) is better. Sorry.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

IMO:
1. Servo stab + CVT for the ultimate safety, can be used for all types of equipment's.
2. (Online) UPS for backup (not recommended for power amps, AVRs. Best for TV, must for projector)

 

[raghupb]

A decent ups, offline or online, will suffice for most equipment.
I have a 800 VA inverter with battery back whole house. Very basic model.
Works for my rig. Marantz AVR and IA blink when power switches over.
Other equipment keeps playing on.
TV blinks sometimes. I guess it depends on battery charge levels
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[square_wave]

We strongly suspect that these are power related issues in my apartment.

Hi Eddiefox, This problem is very real. Also, if you live in an apartment, you have very less control over the wiring standards and the “generator or power backup kicking in situation “. There are no standards that are adhered to. I have met a few of these clowns who call themselves “electricians” in apartments. Don’t even get me started on it. That is why I bought a double conversion ups many years back. You need something like that or a CVT / Servo controlled stabilizer along with very high quality protection devices from furman etc.

I will never recommend anything from V guard for high end av equipment.

Regular home inverter systems are a big "No" for av gear.

 

[eddie_fox]

Thank you for your inputs.

Just to add, these are the current options:

Option 1 - 3KVa Servo Stab - 8000 INR (approx.)
Option 2 - 3KVa Servo Stab + Isolation transformer - 20,000 INR (approx.)
Option 3 - CVT + Power Conditioner - 28,000 INR (approx.)
Option 4 - 3KVa Online UPS (APC/Emerson) - 29,000 INR (approx.)

Any votes on the options? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

 

[square_wave]

I only have experience with double conversion online ups from Apc. Emerson, Leibert, Eaton are all good brands. Servo stabilizers are mechanical in nature so someone who has technical expertise in their suitability should chime in. I used to own a Vertex servo stab in the past. It used to make a sound whenever there was a fluctuation. It worked fine though with my odyssey stratos and preamp. A friend's amp blew because of mechanical failure of the servo stab though. Not vertex...something else. But I sold it in a jiffy !

No experience with CVT or Isolation transformer.

 

[blackscorpio]

IMO:
1. Servo stab + CVT for the ultimate safety, can be used for all types of equipment's.
2. (Online) UPS for backup (not recommended for power amps, AVRs. Best for TV, must for projector)

Sorry, it is Servo + Isolation trafo and the 3rd option must be CVT alone.

Considering, CVT being noisy I will rule it out, unless it can be placed outside the HT/stereo room. But this is the best option for protecting your gear, I read.

UPS is not recommended for amps/int/AVR, it is ruled out for the whole setup but I guess one must have a rather smaller capacity just for the projector/TV.

Servo + Isolation is my preferred setup.

Disclaimer: I have no electrical background, this is from the bits & pieces I read online.

 

[square_wave]

UPS is not recommended for amps/int/AVR, it is ruled out for the whole setup but I guess one must have a rather smaller capacity just for the projector/TV.

Can you tell us more about this ? From my research in the past, from a quality and protection context, power regenerators are the best option. Among ups systems, only " double conversion online " does this. This type of ups takes the input AC and then converts it into DC, then it reconverts it back to a pure sinewave AC. Your equipment is never connected to the input AC current at your home. High end regenerators like PS audio etc.. are pretty much doing the same thing. The only difference is that they take it to the next level when it comes to quality of the output stage. They are of course better but they come at a price.

What kind of ups systems have you tried out? What was your experience ?

Can you talk more about servo + isolation ? Will the isolation transformer be kept before or after the servo ? What is the benefit from a technical standpoint ?

 

[blackscorpio]

Can you tell us more about this ? From my research in the past, from a quality and protection context, power regenerators are the best option. Among ups systems, only " double conversion online " does this. This type of ups takes the input AC and then converts it into DC, then it reconverts it back to a pure sinewave AC. Your equipment is never connected to the input AC current at your home. High end regenerators like PS audio etc.. are pretty much doing the same thing. The only difference is that they take it to the next level when it comes to quality of the output stage. They are of course better but they come at a price.

I never thought of comparing the online UPS & regenerators, so I googled, here is the top result :

PowerPlant vs. Double Conversion UPS

For home theater, too, a UPS makes sense - projector bulbs do not like suddenly losing power. It can impact their overall lifespan. As you said, it’s tough finding apples to apples specs. I checked with one of our engineers and we don’t measure common and normal mode noise in our Power Plants.

forum.psaudio.com

BTW, I don't have any technical expertise to discuss or explain the topic. As I stated earlier, the statements I made is my conclusion of what I read, bits & pieces, on the internet.

please add the salt to your pleasing. lol.

What kind of ups systems have you tried out? What was your experience ?

I had an Eaton 3KVA online UPS only for HT. I didn't notice any change after removing UPS. Stereo, I never had any UPS.

Can you talk more about servo + isolation ? Will the isolation transformer be kept before or after the servo ? What is the benefit from a technical standpoint ?

Mains -> Servo -> Isolation -> Equipment

From what I read, Servo stabilizes the main input current but it does so through mechanical servo motor. Isolation trafo basically isolates the equipment from the direct connection with main input, isolation trafo has two winding's, primary & secondary, and there is no contact between the two. Current is transferred between through magnetic flux. So it makes the power lot cleaner. In laymen terms we can say it regenerates or say it generates electrical current from magnetic flux, I guess.

Disclaimer: Not an electrical engineer, I am as well trying understand/grasp things from what I read online. so, I might be totally wrong. I would appreciate if the more knowledgeable correct me.

 

[square_wave]

@blackscorpio , thanks for the quick reply. I have been following ps audio for a while. I got the context.
To summarise :

1. You could not find any difference in the HT before or after a double conversion ups was in place.
2. You have not tried a double conversion ups in your stereo.

Thanks for the info about servo + isolation trafo. Interesting. Have you tried this in your system ? How did it go ?
If there are people who have tried this, it would be awesome if they can also chime in.

I have been led to believe the following after many experiments and talks with people who have tried all these.

- For amplification devices, connecting to the wall socket directly gives the best performance. But this works if you have relatively clean power at your home. In cases of very bad quality power, power generators of very high quality works best. When I tried a servo in my setup in the past, I could not hear much difference. That was when I was living in an independent house. When I moved to an apartment, the APC ups made the sound a bit cleaner. So, all this need to be taken into context. I have never tried a servo with isolation trafo, so no comments.

- For digital and preamps, there are too many products out there. Power regenerators, conditioners .. all of them make a difference. But you go to try them to take a call.

This is very good for gear rated below 100 watts.

Monarchy-audio.com