POWER GAMES:Servo Stabilizer,CVT or Online UPS?

[blackscorpio]

Anyone here in Hyderabad bought the Emerson UPS? I am in the market for one and need info, please.

 

[west10100]

Hi members
I just installed a 5 kva servo upto 140 volt support , with obo bettermann surge protector for 20k. Went ahead with this company
Vertex chennai , We have installed a 20 kva for lift, which has been working well too.
Arun

 

[blackscorpio]

Hi members
I just installed a 5 kva servo upto 140 volt support , with obo bettermann surge protector for 20k. Went ahead with this company
Vertex chennai , We have installed a 20 kva for lift, which has been working well too.
Arun

Arun, please give me little more details on the obo bettermann, like the model, cost, etc. I am planning for my home. And do you have any power back up solution already in place?

 

[west10100]

Hi
The obo v20c and obo C25 b + c combi controller.
They are for lightning and line surge protection.
Obo came to 4k.
I don't have whole house servo, only for ht.
The 20 kva is in my office lift.
No plans for generator or back up now.
I have a 1 kva computer ups for my projector only which inturn is supported by the servo.

 

[ajay124]

My Emerson online UPS has been in the standby mode since I sold my Bryston amps a few months ago. Recently it started emitting a constant beeping sound with a "BF" message flashing on the screen. The service technician initially suggested said that the BF message signified a battery fault. He experimented with another six-pack of Exide batteries but problem was not resolved. Now he has suggested that the problem lies in the card. I've been given the option of getting the card repaired or replaced. The replacement doesn't make sense as the card costs virtually as much as a new UPS! Even the figures I have been quoted for getting the card repaired are extremely high. I was not satisfied with the response of the service technician and have not taken any action in getting the UPS repaired.

Any suggestions about a future course of action?

 

[blackscorpio]

Looks like Online UPS efficiency varies between 80% and 90% mostly, has any observed how much it costs to maintain a Online UPS from electricity charges view point?

 

[AKT]

My Emerson online UPS has been in the standby mode since I sold my Bryston amps a few months ago. Recently it started emitting a constant beeping sound with a "BF" message flashing on the screen. The service technician initially suggested said that the BF message signified a battery fault. He experimented with another six-pack of Exide batteries but problem was not resolved. Now he has suggested that the problem lies in the card. I've been given the option of getting the card repaired or replaced. The replacement doesn't make sense as the card costs virtually as much as a new UPS! Even the figures I have been quoted for getting the card repaired are extremely high. I was not satisfied with the response of the service technician and have not taken any action in getting the UPS repaired.

Any suggestions about a future course of action?

Ajay - what did you finally do with your Emerson UPS? I am thinking of going for one. Should I?

 

[sansei]

What is the cost for your emerson?

Have a quote of 13.5k a vertex servo 2kva (audio quality)

 

[AKT]

I went with an Emerson Online 3 KVA UPS a little less than a year ago. Would recommend it to anybody with closed eyes!

My setup came a little expensive at INR 33,900 for the UPS, INR 1,400 for a commercial grade power strip and installation (under the wall wiring for a neat look) cost of INR 4,000.

However, it has been worth every bit. I run all my gear through it 24x7 (I do not hard power down my devices) and it just runs! Works with my apartment genset and not a hitch so far. If interested, I would share details of local Bangalore re-seller and the electrician who understands what WAF is!!!

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

What is the best price i can get for the Emerson 2KV Online UPS with internal batteries in Bangalore?
I am being offered it 26.5K for the 2KV unit. However I note that some have managed to get a 3KV unit itself for 26K.

 

[ShaQ.Blogs]

For those interested, i have got a quote of 25.5K including taxes for 2KV Online with Internal Batteries. Delivered and installed at home.
If anyone is interested I can try and negotiate for a lower price if we purchase multiple units together.


Note: My earlier post was exclusive of taxes.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Thanks, but my question is not answered by the link. I wanted to know if a dedicated Power conditioner improves sq as compared to a CVT or a good servo stabilizer. There are several per conditioners in the market starting at around rs.10000 going up to rs. 2 lacs. So which brands are recommended?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[prem]

As far as possible avoid power conditioners unless there is a specific problem to be addressed. I have had power conditioners from Shunyata, BPT, Haley from Running Spring Audio, Powerwing from Alan Kafton and a CVT. I would avoid using any. A CVT cannot be used in the same room as your system as it makes a noise. This is true of all CVTs.

If you want to experiment just try them with your source. As far as possible go direct with the amp.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Sorry, wrong thread!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[kgppg]

Hi Ajay124,

Did you connect your SW to the Emerson UPS too ?

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Quite true Prem. I've finally settled for a 3 kva online UPS from Emerson. It's placed in a separate room because of the hum from its fan. Doesn't make as much noise as a cvt but is still audible.
In Pune, we have frequent power cuts and voltage fluctuations. Both these issues are addressed by the UPS, in addition to providing a perfect Sine wave.
SQ has definitely improved!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[haisaikat]

One question in this old thread, first my situation.

I have digital source as a CDP (80 watts) whose internal dac is damn good, a Allo digione ( less than 15 watts) with its default power supply and a tube pre ( less than 80 watts). My power amp s max consumption is 2400 watts. My aim is to give clean power to other devices except power amp as I read clean power impacts devices that rely highly on clocks for signal processing (exception tube pre) and also thus capacity will be required lesser for the power supplier. Should I be contended with a CVT or a power regenerator or a Linear PSU wherever applicable (like digione) or a combination of multiple of these. Please advise.

 

[newlash09]

One question in this old thread, first my situation.

I have digital source as a CDP (80 watts) whose internal dac is damn good, a Allo digione ( less than 15 watts) with its default power supply and a tube pre ( less than 80 watts). My power amp s max consumption is 2400 watts. My aim is to give clean power to other devices except power amp as I read clean power impacts devices that rely highly on clocks for signal processing (exception tube pre) and also thus capacity will be required lesser for the power supplier. Should I be contended with a CVT or a power regenerator or a Linear PSU wherever applicable (like digione) or a combination of multiple of these. Please advise.

Hi haisaikat....

I have been considering on similar lines recently. And below is what was recommended to me on other forums :

1. Seperate power lines for all sources + preamp - Let's call this power line 1

2. Seperate power lines for power amp - Let's call this power line 2.

Power amp on powerline 2 is not very sensitive to power. So this can just be a dedicated line directly from mains. And if you feel you have very poor quality power, then adding a CVT + isolation transformer is recommended. As long as these have 2 times the max power draw of the Amps. There will be sufficient headroom for dynamics. Power conditioners or filters usually reduce the dynamics. Besides, power amps have sufficient capacitors and their power supplies are robust enough to make up for any fluctuations in current and voltage.

Digital sources, DACs and preamps are the sensitive electronics in the chain, that usually don't come with very robust power supplies. And they need all the pure power that can be supplied. And on the positive side, their current draw is not much. So the below are to be achieved in the same :
1. Keep voltage constant - CVT or servo stabilizer
2. Isolation from power line noise - isolation transformer.
3. Keep power properly shaped - pure sine wave regenerators or some models of online ups that achieve the same. Even some CVT achieve the same.
4. Galvanic isolation between all source components, especially kit having SMPS modules like Amazon fire TV sticks and cell chargers.

I have been considering a combination of CVT + isolation transformer to achieve point nos 1 to 3. I have a star wired power block that achieves the galvanic isolation required as per point no.4. So depending on the number of boxes you can accommodate, you can go for an all in one, or seperate boxes. Just like in a audio chain, seperate boxes offer better power than one integrated solution.

 

[newlash09]

Below is a copy and paste from an excellent write up by our forum member hifiashok , almost a decade back



N

• Audio Video Accessories

Constant Voltage Stabilizer - CVT - Explained

• Thread startermadbullram
• Start dateDec 9, 2009

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murali_n
Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2009
#21
Hai Thad,

Not necessarily

N.Murali

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Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2009
#22
Let me borrow that wall... I want to bang my head against it! :lol:

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A
abhifusion
New Member
Dec 10, 2009
#23
I bought 2KVA servo stabilizer from Lotus Autotron , Pune ...
I had given him idea that i'll be using it in house for LCD,Fridge n Comp ...

But when we called electrician for setting it up , he said its 1Phase and for house you need 3 Phase stabilizer :sad:

what do i need to do now ?? I paid 5k for it !!

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murali_n
Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2009
#24
Hai,

Connect all the appliances in a single circuit and connect this circuit to the output of the servo.

One point I would like to mention is why do you connect the Fridge to a Servo stab ? Because the compressor will switch ON & OFF many times per hour and every time that load will cause volt drop , which is going to make the servo motor to adjust the Voltage and ultimately the maintanence work in your stab will increase.

Servo stab are meant to be used for precise control of voltage for sensitive equipments like computer and communication equipments.

Just my 2 cents.

N.Murali.

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cmsajith
Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2009
#25
Thad E Ginathom said:
Does that mean that the voltage of an ordinary household stabilizer will be jumping?

My hifi (and my wife's laptop) is connected to a small (APC Back-UPS500) UPS, which I was hoping would regulate the voltage as well as provide backup for short outages. However, the amplifier usually trips off on a power cut. It is more sensitive than a computer! Other components remain on.

Whilst I don't want to spend a lot of money on a stabiliser, I doubt that I'll be able to afford the same quality amplifier again, so protection is important.
Click to expand...
Normally all the "household voltage stabilizers" which are available in the market will do the voltage correction, but it will not do a smooth correction. Rather those stabilizers should be called voltage boosters. When the output voltage drops from its permissible range, it will give a boost of 30-40v (it will be mentioned in the manual) to keep it in the range and the reverse will happen at the maximum range. So as you told we can say there will be a jump in voltage and it will become worse if the fluctuation is very high and last for a long time, you will hear the continuous "tick" sound from the relays inside.

Whereas a servo stab will have a constant sensing circuit for the output voltage and built in stable reference voltage source. The solid state control circuit operates the motor whenever the output voltage falls or rises beyond the preset voltage (usually it will be + or - 2 or 3v). The motor is mechanically attached (contact using a brush) to the arm of a continuously variable auto transformer for the smooth voltage correction and the movement make the sound. Since the servo motor is correcting the voltage, the correction time will be slightly more compared to others, but it will be smooth and the correction will be within 2 or 3v. If the fluctuation is happening for a long time or it is frequent the motor arm will try to adjust constantly and thereby the wear and tear of the brush will be more and early.

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cmsajith
Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2009
#26
I have posted the pictures of my servo stabilizer in the following post:
http://www.hifivision.com/audio-vid...mi-rf-filters-surge-suppressor.html#post94242

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hifiashok
Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2009
#27
there are usu. three kinds of UPSs, off-line, on-line and line-interactive.

off-line UPSs usually are cheaper, lower efficiency solutions. they deliver electricity using the batteries only when there is none from the mains.

line-interactive UPSs are a compromise on cost and quality and are ok for computer use. the crux is the switch-over time (optimally needs to be 5-6ms or then the comp. may reboot, data losses may occur or damage to the electronics is possible).

on-line are the best (among UPSs), for computer and other sensitive equipment needs. this is coz. differential o/p is generated from the batteries, irrespective of the fact that electricity is on or cut, meaning there is waveform correction (square to sine).

so, no AVR needed in on-line. PWM (pulse width modulation) us used.

in on-line UPSs, AC is converted to DC (say input of 230V AC to 180V DC) then AC is regenerated from DC (say input of 180V DC to 220V AC). so, o/p AC is cleaner and constant.

UPSs (incl. on-line) however, are bad choices for audio (since they use a switching frequency of 14.4KHz to 16KHz that could introduce harmonic distortion and noise).

the off-line and line-interactive UPSs need AVRs but the quality of the AVR (or the total lack of it) is a price/market dependent variable.

AVR work using relays for step-up or step-down (physical moving devices).

Line-interactive UPSs usually go upto 1.5KV. Only APC goes upto 5KV.

APCs used to have a lot of issues in India since the designers in the US were not aware of electricity issues here. However, over time, they seem to have customised their offerings for Indian conditions.

coming to servo, correction time, owing to the physical movement of the motor/brush, is approx. 35V/sec where correction in the on-line UPSs is in millisecs. servo also does not do any waveform correction.

consequently, IMHO, for audio use, CVTs are the best option (when not incl. power re-generators in the list of options, like Power Plant from PSAudio). esp. when from companies like Bhurji, that are and have been at the epitome of power conditioning for many years.

CVTs handle harmonic distortion. They handle waveform correction. They work on the saturated core principle so are able to deliver best, clean and stable power. the manufacturer's credentials and R&D are critical to a good CVT design as 'balancing' is a key requirement, esp. since there are 04 coils. and, of course, use of the highest quality of materials.

A CVT, by virtue of its design, is 85% efficient (approx. 15% heat, etc., loss).

Secondly, owing to the large transformers therein, there is an avoidable hum.

Consequently, there are CVT usage best practices, viz.,

1. Try and install the CVT in a room/area other than where the audio eqpt. is, to avoid the irritating hum.
2. Try and keep the CVT atleast 3m away from the audio eqpt. to avoid harmonic distortions.
3. Try and keep the CVT in a well ventilated area to dissipate the heat generated.
4. Depending on the distance of the CVT from the equipment, quality and gauge of the power connecting wire/s need/s to be calculated carefully.

http://www.hifivision.com/audio-vid...ssues-power-supply-inverters-3.html#post32447

 

[haisaikat]

Digital sources, DACs and preamps are the sensitive electronics in the chain, that usually don't come with very robust power supplies. And they need all the pure power that can be supplied. And on the positive side, their current draw is not much. So the below are to be achieved in the same :
1. Keep voltage constant - CVT or servo stabilizer
2. Isolation from power line noise - isolation transformer.
3. Keep power properly shaped - pure sine wave regenerators or some models of online ups that achieve the same. Even some CVT achieve the same.
4. Galvanic isolation between all source components, especially kit having SMPS modules like Amazon fire TV sticks and cell chargers.

I have been considering a combination of CVT + isolation transformer to achieve point nos 1 to 3. I have a star wired power block that achieves the galvanic isolation required as per point no.4. So depending on the number of boxes you can accommodate, you can go for an all in one, or seperate boxes. Just like in a audio chain, seperate boxes offer better power than one integrated solution.

Bhurjitransformers Index

+91 (124) 4001172-75, 3012041-42

Are you using the CVT from Bhurji? Is there a CVT that will take care of 1,2,and 3? For 4, in my audio chain out of Little Dot MK II pre-amp looks to be having a transformer already, CS 851C CDP and Allo Digione, only the Digione is using a SMPS power, as such only that would be requiring a Galvanic Isolator right? I am also checking if powering the digione with power banks that claim to provide 3 amp / 2.4 amp in a single output port can be an option although i am skeptical if they actually maintain constant voltage of 5 volt with time