raspberry pi 2 as media player

[rikhav]

You really cannot compare a RPi based audio system with a Windows or even a larger Linux based system. A RPi based system cannot act as your main audio system. At best, it will work well with a distributed audio system where you have these systems connected to small bookshelf speakers. Look at amplification in the range of some 25 watts per channel.

Though one can argue - take the SPDIF out, connect to a high end DAC, put a powerful amp......etc etc. But then you are missing the point completely. If you are going to spend so much money and take that effort, why use a RPi at all?

The RPi is, in my mind, ideal for a distributed music system. Just the RPi, connected to a low cost speakers. Use your smart phone and get instant music anywhere. It can be considered as a replacement for the Sonos or systems similar to that.

I am sure in time, the capabilities of RPi will increase. At that time, be ready to throw away 100$ of investment and get a new enhanced version.

Don't look for 'audiophile' grade music here.

Cheers

Absolutely beg to differ from you

Why cant you use you a RPI for a high end system?
With even a proper pc (windows based or Linux based), one would need an external good quality dac for good reproduction of music

when I need my computer to do just audio and nothing else why cant I use the RPI?

Even for a dedicated pc many use a LPS so what's the harm in spending for a LPS for a rpi even if it costs only 3000 bucks

I don't want to get deep into argument but for me a properly tweaked RPI with a LPS can be as good as any NUC or PC used only as a transport

For proper AUDIOPHILE GRADE MUSIC

 

[saikatbiswas82]

+1 to what Rishav said.

And those who thinks that RPI don't have potential for a being a high end audiophile grade transport, I recommend them to do some proper reading first before passing their judgement.

First of all, USB output is not recommended for highest quality Audio from RPI (IMHO). The best possible Audio output can be obtained via i2s only. So a hat board like hifiberry digi+ is one of the best solutions for RPI these days.

Just to shed some more light, I think with proper power supply and a i2s output, RPI can beat all commercial digital transports which are priced 10-15 times to RPI&digi+ combo. IMHO. YMMV.

 

[venkatcr]

Why cant you use you a RPI for a high end system?
With even a proper pc (windows based or Linux based), one would need an external good quality dac for good reproduction of music.....when I need my computer to do just audio and nothing else why cant I use the RPI?

Sure you can. But given the size of RPi and it's inherent limitations, you might (dare I say you WILL) hit a bottleneck sometime or the other.

In my mind, it is like using a small winnow to pull a huge cart. RPi is small, portable, and inexpensive. For some 15-20K including speakers it should deliver very good audio where you want. That is how I picturise it.

All the reviews I have read, none talk about RPi as a replacement for high end audio system. But I could be wrong.

My vision of RPi for audio is like this - an RPi 3 with HifiBerry Amp+ connected to inexpensive bookshelves. Pick up music from a central library, and listen to some music in your bedroom before sleeping. Transport the system to the living room for a small get together. When alone, I will revert back to my main music system. Today I miss being able to listen to music 24/7, and I think RPi will enable me to do that.

Cheers

 

[saikatbiswas82]

You really cannot compare a RPi based audio system with a Windows or even a larger Linux based system.

Why cannot compare?

A RPi based system cannot act as your main audio system.

What made you think so?

At best, it will work well with a distributed audio system where you have these systems connected to small bookshelf speakers.

I don't understand what distributed Audio system mean?

Look at amplification in the range of some 25 watts per channel.

What is the amplification range recommend then?

Though one can argue - take the SPDIF out, connect to a high end DAC, put a powerful amp......etc etc. But then you are missing the point completely. If you are going to spend so much money and take that effort, why use a RPi at all?

If someone has money, he/she should spend it wisely.

The RPi is, in my mind, ideal for a distributed music system. Just the RPi, connected to a low cost speakers. Use your smart phone and get instant music anywhere. It can be considered as a replacement for the Sonos or systems similar to that.

I think you didn't understand what RPI is.

I am sure in time, the capabilities of RPi will increase. At that time, be ready to throw away 100$ of investment and get a new enhanced version.

What are other options?

Don't look for 'audiophile' grade music here.

No one is pressurizing you. But don't misguide others. Because RPI is AUDIOPHILE GRADE! [emoji4]

 

[drgb]

Venkat sir I think you're viewing it with the wrong perspective. Digital audio as opposed to analogue is not about size and circuitry.
The main function of an ideal digital transport is (or should be) to decode the digital music file and transfer that data (digital data in the form 1s and 0s) to the DAC, which is then responsible for what happens to the music at the digital-analogue interface. That's it.
So you see, the efficacy of the digital transport is in the implementation of its software and not of its hardware. A raspberry Pi has sufficient hardware guts to decode a music file and then some.

Now coming to the original question. In my experience I've found all three (moodeAudio, rune and volumio) to be lacking somewhere in the correct implementation of the ALSA audio framework. Neither of the three can give you a 100% true PCM stream to feed your DAC.

The unlikely hero here is OSMC. I must admit that I was very sceptic of its performance on the meagre Pi A (the oldest Pi model, the one that I own), given its graphic intensive GUI (not to mention this is a local GUI, unlike moode, rune or volumio which do not have a local ui service layer and function via a client based webUI). But it was able to prove me wrong. The output is the most uncolored and accurate of all the Pi distros I've tried.
The only problem with OSMC is the spotty DSD, DIFF support (it can play but it stresses the system quite a bit). But I guess that limitation should be overcome soon with upcoming versions of kodi. Try it and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the audio quality. Just make sure your audio settings are correctly configured and you're good to go!

In conclusion I'd like to say that rediculing the Pi on the basis of its size and structure for audio is pure audiophile BS. Rather the raspberry Pi is THE ersatz digital transport of the future, and as it's decoding chops get better, it will (and should) replace your PC's and laptops for audio playback in a good digital system.

 

[drgb]

@saikat sir: I don't think i2s via the hifiberry is the "best" option. In fact the hifiberry is itself quite underperforming as a DAC (esp when you compare it to the DACs that most of us own on this forum).
I2s interface might have its pluses in the form of synchronization, less noise floor and reduced to negligible latency but the hifiberry loses the ground as a DAC.
Ofcourse when I say this I'm comparing the pi+hifiberry combo to my Pi+benchmark DAC combo. So dpending on ones DAC, YMMV.

 

[jls001]

@venkatcr: you owe yourself a listen of the RPi. I would strongly recommend a good linear power supply to go with it. With the stock SMPS-based power adapter, the sound quality is just about OK. Even a battery supply didn't raise performance much, but a good LPS is a different animal.

But having dabbled in analog and computer audio, I must state that RPi is equally, if not more, fiddly in terms of set up and configuration requirements. It's not plug and play like a hardware CD player. It also demands knowledge of at least basic networking skills, at least sufficient skill to follow instructions.

A downside: IMO, the availability of remote control from a phone or tablet makes one incessantly jump from track to track. Personally I feel this distracts from the enjoyment of full albums. One ends up spending inordinate amount of time browsing through one's music library.

 

[rikhav]

Saikat uses a hifiberry digi+ card which gives a spidif out via i2s and not the hifiberry dac

 

[saikatbiswas82]

@saikat sir: I don't think i2s via the hifiberry is the "best" option. In fact the hifiberry is itself quite underperforming as a DAC (esp when you compare it to the DACs that most of us own on this forum).
I2s interface might have its pluses in the form of synchronization, less noise floor and reduced to negligible latency but the hifiberry loses the ground as a DAC.
Ofcourse when I say this I'm comparing the pi+hifiberry combo to my Pi+benchmark DAC combo. So dpending on ones DAC, YMMV.

When I talked about hifiberry, I actually tried to mean digi+ and not the dac+. Digi+ converts i2s to s/pdif. If any good dac is connected in chain, this combo could produce outstanding results IMHO.

In fact I believe pi & digi+ combo will produce better results with benchmark (with s/pdif connection) compared against USB input of benchmark. I am yet to test this side by side during our dac shootout in coming April. I hope we'll be able to test few outstanding DACs during that time.

I do consider that the dac inside hifiberry dac+ is not that great. That's why I didn't go that way.

 

[drgb]

@rikhav: thanks for pointing it out! My bad @saikat.

@saikat: Hmmm. Which PSU are you using to power the Pi? If your PSU is good, I'm guessing you're definitely hearing good results. Look forward to your tests on the DACs!

@joshua: bro I highly recommend you look into OSMC. As I mentioned it has much more features than moode, volumio or rune. It also supports a plethora of plugins and I'm sure you'll find something that'll fit your needs.

I was thinking of compiling my own local GUI based on the py game library or ocempgui as a front end for an mpd based setup. If only I had time.

The best part about Linux for audio is that everything is soo tweakable and with new hardware platforms like the Pi and arduino, only sky is the limit.

 

[AVcrazy]

Sir I'm using a pi2 mod-B. Whr can I buy digi+?

 

[venkatcr]

Thank you all for ganging up against me. :lol::lol:

A couple of rejoinders.

1. I have never ridiculed RPi. I am going to have at least 3 RPi based systems. So that statement is completely wrong.
2. I do understand that digital processing can be done by a 100$ computer as well as a 100,000$ computer. But when it comes to processing data in real time for audio and video, the later has undoubted advantages in number crunching.

I was looking at RPi, I suppose, in a way that is different from your viewpoints. So, let us leave it at that.

Thanks and Cheers

 

[saikatbiswas82]

Sir I'm using a pi2 mod-B. Whr can I buy digi+?

I am also using same pi2. I've ordered my digi+ directly from their site.

https://www.hifiberry.com/product/hifiberry-digi-transformer-version/

 

[saikatbiswas82]

@rikhav: thanks for pointing it out! My bad @saikat

No problem at all [emoji4]

@saikat: Hmmm. Which PSU are you using to power the Pi? If your PSU is good, I'm guessing you're definitely hearing good results. Look forward to your tests on the DACs!

I am still using smps based charger. I am building some lpsu for RPI, dac, router, switch etc. Will definitely post my impressions on the dac shootout.

 

[regeHA]

Can someone compare the SQ of the available so called "audiophile" distro: moodeAudio/runeAudio/volumio etc?
I tried all of them and the audio quality is just okay. I mean it's almost similar; if not better than my foobar on Windows (ASIO).
I mean these are almost tiny in comparison to Windows with relatively no extra service layers. So was expecting better output.

If your PC is sounding so good then you must have done something... either the components are top of the line (mine are and the PC still under delivered), you've shutdown most of Windows features, etc. Or you must be doing something wrong with the Pi.

Out of the box, it destroyed my $2000 PC (with additional mods of another $500), so in total a $2500 PC vs. a $60 Pi (the Pi is only $35, but you'll end up spending on the case, SD card, cables, power supply, etc.)

But the caveat is to use the Pi as a transport and not as a DAC. In other words no analog 3.5mm output. Also, USB DACs really don't do well unless you throw in $200 to $1000 "USB cleaners/fixers".

The best way to do the Pi is wireless (my preferred choice) or digital (HifiBerry Digi+). Any other way and you'll not see any huge benefits with the Pi.

I've not done anything else with my Pi, not even LPS though many folks swear by it. I'll be trying out a "cheapo" LPS soon, but I don't have much hopes since I've already achieved galvanic isolation by going wireless.

The SQ of most Linux distros are somewhat similar, most folks will be hard pressed to really differentiate between them, but the caveat here is to use even the Linux distros with a wireless or digital output from the Pi. I"ve personally stopped using all 3 (moOde, Rune, Volumio) and have instead starting using MinimServer both on my Pi and the NAS.

After discovering "wireless" I even tried wireless on my PC (with Foobar) and the results were similarly spectacular. Give it a try for yourself with https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_upnp. Of course its better if the chain is the same, but wireless DACs are a rarity and not everyone has a Chromecast Audio on hand. But you can try an extended session with an AVR that has wireless vs. using the HDMI or digital inputs on the AVR.

The elimination of PC noise and electrical noise have been the biggest advantages of using a Pi. The Linux distros are good, but not necessarily the winning points behind the large scale adoption of the Pi. Any real "audiophile" use of the Pi will have the adoption of either wireless, better USB implementation, or onboard optical as seen in all devices like Aurender, Auralice, Sonore, etc. all devices selling from $300 to $18000 and yes all with a Pi on the inside.

PS: I'm in agreement (somewhat) with Venkat here. If I was going to spend $1000 on an LPS and another $500-$1000 on a USB cleaner for the Pi, I'd simply buy a source/transport for $2000 like the Sony HAP Prem is looking at. Simple plug and play solution without all the work involved in tweaking the Pi and more importantly if you have the $$$ then buy something like Auralic where someone has taken the Pi and tweaked it. But even without the tweaking and using regular components like a mobile charger for power supply the Pi walked all over my $2500 PC. No way in the real world can a PC and the Pi sound the same for audio, unless of course the PC has had a lot of work to make it a better performer.

 

[regeHA]

Sir I'm using a pi2 mod-B. Whr can I buy digi+?

Before you embark on any purchase you should at least give "wireless streaming" with MinimServer a try.

A Chromecast Audio is a better buy IMHO.

Don't take my word alone... all the big guns from Linn, Naim, Dynaudio, KEF, Klipsch are going wireless... in fact 100% wireless with no cables whatsoever.

And I've heard entirely wireless systems that cost a couple of thousand dollars to one even costing $35,000 and they simply played at a different plane, the best acoustics and dynamic range I've ever heard in any system.

 

[AVcrazy]

If your PC is sounding so good then you must have done something... either the components are top of the line (mine are and the PC still under delivered), you've shutdown most of Windows features, etc. Or you must be doing something wrong with the Pi.

Out of the box, it destroyed my $2000 PC (with additional mods of another $500), so in total a $2500 PC vs. a $60 Pi (the Pi is only $35, but you'll end up spending on the case, SD card, cables, power supply, etc.)

But the caveat is to use the Pi as a transport and not as a DAC. In other words no analog 3.5mm output. Also, USB DACs really don't do well unless you throw in $200 to $1000 "USB cleaners/fixers".

The best way to do the Pi is wireless (my preferred choice) or digital (HifiBerry Digi+). Any other way and you'll not see any huge benefits with the Pi.

I've not done anything else with my Pi, not even LPS though many folks swear by it. I'll be trying out a "cheapo" LPS soon, but I don't have much hopes since I've already achieved galvanic isolation by going wireless.

The SQ of most Linux distros are somewhat similar, most folks will be hard pressed to really differentiate between them, but the caveat here is to use even the Linux distros with a wireless or digital output from the Pi. I"ve personally stopped using all 3 (moOde, Rune, Volumio) and have instead starting using MinimServer both on my Pi and the NAS.

After discovering "wireless" I even tried wireless on my PC (with Foobar) and the results were similarly spectacular. Give it a try for yourself with https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_upnp. Of course its better if the chain is the same, but wireless DACs are a rarity and not everyone has a Chromecast Audio on hand. But you can try an extended session with an AVR that has wireless vs. using the HDMI or digital inputs on the AVR.

The elimination of PC noise and electrical noise have been the biggest advantages of using a Pi. The Linux distros are good, but not necessarily the winning points behind the large scale adoption of the Pi. Any real "audiophile" use of the Pi will have the adoption of either wireless, better USB implementation, or onboard optical as seen in all devices like Aurender, Auralice, Sonore, etc. all devices selling from $300 to $18000 and yes all with a Pi on the inside.

PS: I'm in agreement (somewhat) with Venkat here. If I was going to spend $1000 on an LPS and another $500-$1000 on a USB cleaner for the Pi, I'd simply buy a source/transport for $2000 like the Sony HAP Prem is looking at. Simple plug and play solution without all the work involved in tweaking the Pi and more importantly if you have the $$$ then buy something like Auralic where someone has taken the Pi and tweaked it. But even without the tweaking and using regular components like a mobile charger for power supply the Pi walked all over my $2500 PC. No way in the real world can a PC and the Pi sound the same for audio, unless of course the PC has had a lot of work to make it a better performer.

Sir can you plz elaborate on how u've gone 'wireless'?
I'm using a HP laptop wid win 8.1. My preferred player is bug head with ASIO which gives best results. Although for regular listening I use foobar with ASIO. My DAC is a Beresford Caiman.
I did not use the 3.5mm Jack on the Pi for output. Used a dac.

Drgb sir, I'll definitely try OSMC sir. Can we change tracks on wifi like we can on volumio? How difficult is it to setup? I'm sorry I'm not very technical.

 

[venkatcr]

A downside: IMO, the availability of remote control from a phone or tablet makes one incessantly jump from track to track. Personally I feel this distracts from the enjoyment of full albums. One ends up spending inordinate amount of time browsing through one's music library.

Two points here. One I think something like OSMC takes care of this.

For me actually, I have no GUI for my music playing. I use the file manager, and drag and drop songs I want to hear onto Foobar. So I don't have too many issues.

Thanks

 

[regeHA]

All the reviews I have read, none talk about RPi as a replacement for high end audio system. But I could be wrong.

The Pi is high end. Of course nobody talks about it or even reviews it.

I've even seen Chris at CA talk down on it, but then he had no answers for all the folks who stood up for the Pi. Not even any technical reasons that would limit the Pi in any way.

But you cannot really fault these guys. End of the day they cannot state in their reviews that a $35 device like the Pi is as "audiophile" grade as any $3000 device because they need ads from those $3000 devices to run their forums and websites. All of the revenue and ads would disappear overnight from CA if Chris were to ever do that.

 

[regeHA]

Sir can you plz elaborate on how u've gone 'wireless'?
I'm using a HP laptop wid win 8.1. My preferred player is bug head with ASIO which gives best results. Although for regular listening I use foobar with ASIO. My DAC is a Beresford Caiman.
I did not use the 3.5mm Jack on the Pi for output. Used a dac.

For starters you'll need wireless equipment at either the DAC stage or the amplification stage. So something like Chromecast Audio to plug into the DAC/AVR or an AVR that has onboard wireless. If you don't have either then either borrow from someone or visit someone who has to have a listen.

To use your laptop, install this plugin in Foobar https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_upnp.

You can also install MinimServer on your laptop Installing MinimServer and MinimWatch on Windows.

Or install MinimServer on the Pi Installing MinimServer on the Raspberry Pi.

Install this app on an Android smartphone https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp. The smartphone will then be able to see and browse the entire library from within the app.

You will then need to "render" the music to any device that has wireless i.e. Chromecast Audio, Raspberry Pi 3 or 2 with WiFi USB dongle, or AVR with WiFi.

The rest of the chain can remain same.