Recommendations for a R2R DAC

[fLUX]

It makes sense. I was intrigued by this idea and was wondering if this will the tube signature to it. Our homegrown brand Acoustic Portrait also has tubes in it.

I have tried Cayin IDAC6 , the tubes did bring a very subtle but noticeable change on its inclusion on the DAC. Would be interesting to try out AP Thiyaga from AP to see how it sounds

 

[kartick]

Sure, I heard about this many years ago from someone I know. He has the DDDAC and possibly added the decks.

It makes sense. I was intrigued by this idea and was wondering if this will the tube signature to it. Our homegrown brand Acoustic Portrait also has tubes in it.

Hi, I have the DDDAC for more than a decade now and constantly upgraded it as a kit. I use a 4 deck version with transformer coupled outputs. That dac is hard to beat on musicality, never in a decade have I had a single session where I had any fatigue. Plus all the upgrades have been worthwhile. Recently added a Fifopi board between the usb board and DAC's motherboard to get even more improvements. This dac is not the "best dac" in the world or the last world in resolution but it's not off putting. Makes you want to listen to more music and that trumps all other aspects for me. Because of this DAC, I have learnt so much about dacs and associated principles. A better PSU and even better transformers are on the cards as the next upgrade. A few downsides are that one has to do a lot of work to get this going and second it will not fetch much money on the used market in India. Will appeal to few folks. Third, it doesn't do any of the hires formats such as DSD, etc. If I were to recommend now, it is better to either get the ready to use solution from AudioCreative in Netherlands or get something like a Terminator. Do look at the dac by ECdesigns. They are onto something special from what I read on the forums.

 

[kratu]

@kartick Sure, DDDAC does look promising. Unfortunately, the cons such as DIY effort, inability to do hi-res might mean that I reconsider that. I'll check AudioCreative.

 

[kartick]

@kartick Sure, DDDAC does look promising. Unfortunately, the cons such as DIY effort, inability to do hi-res might mean that I reconsider that. I'll check AudioCreative.

I would also not recommend it for these reasons alone. Best you consider other good future proof options. Terminator with Gaia is gaining a lot of popularity. But one thing I notice is that these two devices get sold so frequently by folks worldwide. I wonder why do people move on from such DACs so quickly? To understand a little bit about this DAC's tone, you may watch hi res videos by this Vlogger on YouTube. His channel is HEADquarter Audio.

See if this helps.

 

[sbfx]

I used to use and still own the DDDAC 8 deck with femto clocks on IAN Canada board mounted on a Pi3 with the magic PSU and Sowter output transformers as a output stage. Its balanced only.

The sound before I moved to another DAC was stunning for the price its built at, its a proper high end dac. The biggest jump in performance for me was when I upgraded the clocks to the Femto. Its a very balanced sounding dac not a mail box slot sound where any frequency is highlighted. It has enough gain too with the transformers vs using a capacitor at the output.

Highly recommended.


Sincerely,

SB.

 

[kartick]

I used to use and still own the DDDAC 8 deck with femto clocks on IAN Canada board mounted on a Pi3 with the magic PSU and Sowter output transformers as a output stage. Its balanced only.

The sound before I moved to another DAC was stunning for the price its built at, its a proper high end dac. The biggest jump in performance for me was when I upgraded the clocks to the Femto. Its a very balanced sounding dac not a mail box slot sound where any frequency is highlighted. It has enough gain too with the transformers vs using a capacitor at the output.

Highly recommended.


Sincerely,

SB.

Very pleasant to learn there is another appreciator on the forum of the DDDAC. Yes, I am using accusilicon clocks with the fifopi board and replaced the stock average quality clocks. Made a great jump. I am evaluating Adrea Mori's clocks. Let me check Femto as well. I ditched the Raspi as it was not worth it.

As for the Sowter's DD got designed, those are on my radar but very expensive. I mean one can get a Denafrips Ares or something in that much. I am working with a Kazakh transformer designer to have a custom transformer built for the DDDAC. Should get it in the next month. Let's see how that goes. With Capacitors, the gain is pretty low, 1.4vrms. Even with the Cinemag transformers, using it in the balanced mode, I get 2.4Vrms. The gain is OK, not great with my all tube setup. With Sowters, one gets a whopping 4.3Vrms, which sings pretty effortlessly and Sowter's bass response is also very good.

 

[square_wave]

If direct imports are an option, the new Soekris commercial dac is supposed to be damn good.

The 2541 ? Which model were you using at home ?

 

[square_wave]

R2r dacs have a Natural Tonality, the higher end ones will get you better resolution and Soundstage.
The uncanny familiarity with the sound (Especially to people who have heard those tracks via Analog Sources, sometime in their audiophile journey) is quite impressive. The nostalgia of Analog sound with user friendliness of Digital Format makes R2R DACs a quite compelling buy.

My Experience from :
Phillips Tda based R2R
Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Denafrips Ares2
AMR 777
Metrum Amethyst
AudioNote level 1/2 DACs
&
I own Denafrips Terminator currently ; I have owned/heard multiple D/S DACs in the past few years and Denafrips Terminator beats most of them in Tonality and Resolution as well. Obviously you need a good resolving system to make out the differences. The Sound Signature of the R2R DAC never goes out of fashion, so it is mostly timeless device for long-term ownership.

If you are a discerning listener who emphasize on Tonality over THD & Sound Signature Over SNR ; Then R2R DAC is a must for you. Go ahead with the best R2R DAC you can afford and you will be content for a long time.

Have you listened to the AMR777 and Denafrips in the same system ? I have listened to the AMR a few times in friend's systems and loved it. What were your key observations ?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Have you listened to the AMR777 and Denafrips in the same system ? I have listened to the AMR a few times in friend's systems and loved it. What were your key observations ?

Different balls for different bats I guess

Having had the AMR before it died

Iam still smitten by the sound. To me till date...that was the sweetest sound I've ever had. It might be premature to dismiss the newer dac's, as I've never heard enough of them. Especially the denafrips terminator till now, but will steal a listen @drkrack
This vacation

 

[jai1611]

The 2541 ? Which model were you using at home ?

I have the first gen diy one. Based on feedback from people who have heard both, their higher end commercial options are better. The issue of bass impact seems to be carried forward to the commercial line as well.

The 2541 is supposedly similar to their earlier top of the line 1541 at a lower price so should be better than the one I have

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Have you listened to the AMR777 and Denafrips in the same system ? I have listened to the AMR a few times in friend's systems and loved it. What were your key observations ?

Actually @drkrack
Has heard the AMR dp-777 Well enough. So I guess he is best positioned to share how he finds the denafrips against the AMR. And I also trust his ears

 

[drkrack]

Have you listened to the AMR777 and Denafrips in the same system ? I have listened to the AMR a few times in friend's systems and loved it. What were your key observations ?

It was in 2 different time frames and 2 different systems, though heard at my listening room.
Amr 777 was used as Preamp / DAC for HP Intel Nuc running audirvana, Via Crown Xls 2502 to Magnepen MC 1 and Focal 926 floorstanders. Xtz 12.17 subwoofer was connected via Amr 777 preouts, it was quite warm and Detailed, with no hint of PA or Class D Characteristics of Crown audible anytime. AMR takes 1hr to warm up, and after that owing to the Tube it has a rich warm tone, unmistakably good combo as pre and DAC. The DSD Function was malfunctioning from Day 1 ( With Very Noticeable Nearly 6 dB bias towards Left Channel). I received the AMR at my place on behalf of Mano and pointed out this issue with DSD part of the DAC ( The Organic Mode of DAC for DSD).
I raised a Red Flag to Mano, to take up the issue with Seller ASAP & Ask for a Refund or Payment of Repair Charges. But, @Yelamanchili manohar being himself ; was gracious or Philanthropic enough not to pursue the matter with the seller. It'd be great help to @Yelamanchili manohar , if someone could point out a suitable technician to fix AMR 777 at reasonable costs.
Other than this issue AMR was superb DAC /Pre Combo under 2L. In fact, I narrowed on buying one AMR available at a dealer in Turkey ( At 3.5k USD) , while I was planning a Vacation Trip to Turkey. ( The Year was 2018 BC, BC= Before Covid19, Means you could entertain such thoughts , Not anymore ). Anyways the Turkey trip didn't materialize, I went to Europe instead.

Terminator is with Freya+ and Parasound a21 combo driving B&W 804 d3 floorstanders. Terminator is definitely more resolving with broader Soundstage, but probably the lush tonality of AMR 777 was more appealing musically and one could happily live with that sound for many years to come.

 

[square_wave]

It was in 2 different time frames and 2 different systems, though heard at my listening room.
Amr 777 was used as Preamp / DAC for HP Intel Nuc running audirvana, Via Crown Xls 2502 to Magnepen MC 1 and Focal 926 floorstanders. Xtz 12.17 subwoofer was connected via Amr 777 preouts, it was quite warm and Detailed, with no hint of PA or Class D Characteristics of Crown audible anytime. AMR takes 1hr to warm up, and after that owing to the Tube it has a rich warm tone, unmistakably good combo as pre and DAC. The DSD Function was malfunctioning from Day 1 ( With Very Noticeable Nearly 6 dB bias towards Left Channel). I received the AMR at my place on behalf of Mano and pointed out this issue with DSD part of the DAC ( The Organic Mode of DAC for DSD).
I raised a Red Flag to Mano, to take up the issue with Seller ASAP & Ask for a Refund or Payment of Repair Charges. But, @Yelamanchili manohar being himself ; was gracious or Philanthropic enough not to pursue the matter with the seller. It'd be great help to @Yelamanchili manohar , if someone could point out a suitable technician to fix AMR 777 at reasonable costs.
Other than this issue AMR was superb DAC /Pre Combo under 2L. In fact, I narrowed on buying one AMR available at a dealer in Turkey ( At 3.5k USD) , while I was planning a Vacation Trip to Turkey. ( The Year was 2018 BC, BC= Before Covid19, Means you could entertain such thoughts , Not anymore ). Anyways the Turkey trip didn't materialize, I went to Europe instead.

Terminator is with Freya+ and Parasound a21 combo driving B&W 804 d3 floorstanders. Terminator is definitely more resolving with broader Soundstage, but probably the lush tonality of AMR 777 was more appealing musically and one could happily live with that sound for many years to come.

Thanks so much for the listening notes. BTW, Why not pursue the matter with AMR guys themselves ? They might just guide you through the process. Many companies ship boards etc.. so that the users can get it fixed at their end.

 

[reignofchaos]

DSD in AMR? I had no idea this exists - this feature is not even listed anywhere! I think mine was the first AMR that landed in India.

 

[kratu]

I would also not recommend it for these reasons alone. Best you consider other good future proof options. Terminator with Gaia is gaining a lot of popularity. But one thing I notice is that these two devices get sold so frequently by folks worldwide. I wonder why do people move on from such DACs so quickly? To understand a little bit about this DAC's tone, you may watch hi res videos by this Vlogger on YouTube. His channel is HEADquarter Audio.

See if this helps.

I guess they have their own reasons to upgrade. On this forum, I've seen someone selling a Denafrips Terminator within in a year. Apparently, he was upgrading to Terminator PLUS. I googled 'Denafrips Terminator vs ...' hoping to find what would be the possible competition. The first one iin auto-suggest list is 'Terminator Plus' followed by 'Chord Dave', 'Schiit Yggdrasil', 'Holo May', etc.

This DAC is cited more often than others, at least on this forum.

The reproduction from this video is quite decent.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Thanks so much for the listening notes. BTW, Why not pursue the matter with AMR guys themselves ? They might just guide you through the process. Many companies ship boards etc.. so that the users can get it fixed at their end.

I've tired that actually, but their customer service is so slow to respond. They did eventually find a replacement board for me in Hong Kong. And once I enquired the pricing for the same, they again went all quiet

Even I stopped pursuing it as iam going in a completely different direction audio wise, with 4 ways active amping. May be once Iam done with my experiments, I will again keep an eye out for an AmR dp-777 or even the higher level dp-77. But on a side note Iam hearing very good things about musical paradise tube dac's as well. So let's see

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Regarding Tube Dacs, I doubt there is one possible in theory as tube is a pure analogue device that can be used either in the power section, clock section or in the output section (either as a gain stage or as a buffer stage) in a DAC.

The actual conversion is either through a sigma/delta based chip or R2R or ladder based DAC.

Very very few companies incorporate tubes in the DAC section post conversion in the clock stage like Primalunae and possibly Nagra also, but how much it benefits can only be discerned after listening.

Primarily tube DAC is a misnomer....it is either a tube buffer or a tube pre after the digital DAC section in a box.
Some companies also use tubes in the power stage of the DAC for filtering claiming it produces a more organic sound.

I get your point

But I've read about primaluna dac's completely using tubes for the DA conversion, and not just for the output section or as OP buffers.

 

[square_wave]

I've tired that actually, but their customer service is so slow to respond. They did eventually find a replacement board for me in Hong Kong. And once I enquired the pricing for the same, they again went all quiet

Even I stopped pursuing it as iam going in a completely different direction audio wise, with 4 ways active amping. May be once Iam done with my experiments, I will again keep an eye out for an AmR dp-777 or even the higher level dp-77. But on a side note Iam hearing very good things about musical paradise tube dac's as well. So let's see

Okay. For active setups, you should get in touch with Acoustic portrait. They have created some of the best active setups that I have heard. Unless you have someone competent helping you in Hyderabad.

 

[Miany]

I guess they have their own reasons to upgrade. On this forum, I've seen someone selling a Denafrips Terminator within in a year. Apparently, he was upgrading to Terminator PLUS.

I think you are referring to me . Yes. The initial plan was to upgrade to Terminator Plus along with Jayz audio CDT. But dropped since it was getting out of my budget. Moreover, there has always been this doubt on "Which connection is better between the CDT and DAC and which cables to look for?". So, I decided to get a single box solution and be done with it. So got Marantz SA10 after a bit of research. The DAC in SA10 is absolutely stunning and it has got a great transport to match.

 

[malvai]

I think you are referring to me . Yes. The initial plan was to upgrade to Terminator Plus along with Jayz audio CDT. But dropped since it was getting out of my budget. Moreover, there has always been this doubt on "Which connection is better between the CDT and DAC and which cables to look for?". So, I decided to get a single box solution and be done with it. So got Marantz SA10 after a bit of research. The DAC in SA10 is absolutely stunning and it has got a great transport to match.

Superb choice Miany!