Room-Speaker setup and the importance of 5mm !
- Thread starter arj
- Start date
as mentioned in this thread, rule of 1/3rds is a very good starting point...push back for more bass, fiddle at 1/3rd to fine tune overall spectrum...push wider to check where image is solid ....if one has enough friends who can help move speakers in tandem while you being seated in listening chair.... and be compensated for with beers, nothing like it. this last part is the most crucial, this is where most us struggle...we cant be the ones moving and running back to listening chair
Move the speakers, live with it for a day. Then move again. Live with it for another day. It takes time to understand what exactly is happening in the room. It’s an iteration process. Does not happen overnight unless you have a lot of experience with tuning.
You don’t need two people to set up the speakers. I always do it alone.
you have a pretty discerning ear, more importantly, you know what you are looking for...most of us may not know even if it's right in front of us
i guess for people like me, tips from this thread would at least get us to flatter bass response and a decent imaging. with more experience and effort, perhaps finer nuances of extracting much more detail
Bass should not ride on any frequencies. That’s the trick. Do not look for the most bass.you have a pretty discerning ear, more importantly, you know what you are looking for...most of us may not know even if it's right in front of us
i guess for people like me, tips from this thread would at least get us to flatter bass response and a decent imaging. with more experience and effort, perhaps finer nuances of extracting much more detail
If you are slightly ahead of the optimum position, the bass will ride on high frequencies. Flute and cymbals won’t sound correct. Body of mids will be less.
If you are a bit behind the optimum position, sound will be closed in. Music won’t breathe
theoretically yes, practically not much but you do not lose much by keeping both the same
Yes this is a node point to start with as well...Jim smith recommends sitting 83% from rear wall as well
@Kushanava is it 38% of the room length ? i tried to find a seating position which nulls out sound approximately ( i do not toe in the speakers at all and at max 5% )
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Yes, I noticed that. But my understanding was that the sound that we hear is a function of three things- the position of the speakers, the room response and the head/ seating position. None of these exist in isolation and are always relative (in relation) to each other. For example- one may adjust the speakers with respect to the room (from a particular seat) but if you change the seating the next time, the fine tuning that you just did 2.5mm etc will be off to the extent to which you have deviated from the earlier seating position. Isnt that the reason why Audyssey, YPAO, etc take measurements from a wide range of seating positions ? And if speaker positioning is so sensitive that even 5 mm matter then I cant even tilt my head by 5 mm the next time I sit to listen to music
I am not challenging the collective wisdom here but trying to understand the underlying concept. No offence to anyone.
Yes, I noticed that. But my understanding was that the sound that we hear is a function of three things- the position of the speakers, the room response and the head/ seating position. None of these exist in isolation and are always relative (in relation) to each other. For example- one may adjust the speakers with respect to the room (from a particular seat) but if you change the seating the next time, the fine tuning that you just did 2.5mm etc will be off to the extent to which you have deviated from the earlier seating position. Isnt that the reason why Audyssey, YPAO, etc take measurements from a wide range of seating positions ? And if speaker positioning is so sensitive that even 5 mm matter then I cant even tilt my head by 5 mm the next time I sit to listen to music
I am not challenging the collective wisdom here but trying to understand the underlying concept. No offence to anyone.
concept of tuning a instrument, you would realize that for the listener it doesn't matter where they sit, it would sound like a perfectly tuned instrument....but when it comes to actual act of tuning the instrument, it has to sync with the overall acoustics of the intrument, which is the "room" of instrument....i see speaker placement as no different, and the mm differences matter when it comes to tuning to the acoustics of the room....once in tune, its not about where you sit (which would be ideal), wherever you move in the room, the speaker would sound tuneful...
i may be naive in my analogy and interpretation, but that's how i see it..
Tuneful (Musical?)yes, but sound (image) will change as we shift positions?
Musical, that tho music will sound
... in tune with the room...therefore minimal peaks/dips etc..Image/Soundstage will ofcourse be focused to the seating position, and may dilute as one shifts to side
In my current setup of speakers, I have managed a center image that does not change when we shift positions. No matter where I sit, I always get the very same center image always. I have noticed some poorly recorded material to shift center image when not seated in my sweet listening spot, but even those recordings attain exact center image when seated in my sweet spot. 95% of my listening happens in my awkward seating positions and only 5% of the time when I am doing critical listening, I sit on the sweet spot.
sachinchavan 15865
Well-Known Member
Can you help us understand what in the design/construction/placement of your current speakers has resulted in this (image that doesn’t shift with your listening position)? Thanks.
The one tuning the instrument will tune it so that it sounds perfect to him from his position w.r.t the room. The person sitting in the second row or worse still, the corner of the room may not hear what the musician hears (assuming no amplification/speakers, etc). However it's an interesting point. Will try this at home over the week- end. Atleast I will know where my hearing stands !
I have placed my speakers to have around 6msec delay from the rare reflection. The width of the wall is 118". The distance between left and right speaker is 59". The balance 59" is split into golden ratio of 36.87" and 22.12". The left and right speakers are keep at this position from the respective walls. The speakers are at a distance of 64" from the front wall.
Hope this helps.
jigarpatel
Active Member
Please provide more details with respect to golden ratio, seems useful in my speaker position.
Any article or calculator link to understand this, so that I can calculate for my room.
All approximations below:
Speed of signal in wire = 30,00,00,000 m/s
Speed of signal in air = 300 m/s
Ratio = 1 million.
1 milli-meter difference of path in air = 1 kilo-meters difference of path in wire
OR in other words if you can "hear" the difference caused by 1 meter wire lengths, then surely you would also be "hearing" difference caused by a change of 1 micro-meter path length in air (distance from driver to ears)
Divide 59 by 1.6. And use this as a ratio.
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